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Excess Height

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Excess Height
Posted by ericsp on Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:04 PM
Yesterday I saw four BNSF and one BN boxcars on a train. All were excess height. The first one was a BNSF built by PS (obviously repainted) followed by three built by ACF (repainted), and finally the BN boxcar built by NSC. The first and last boxcars had the white panel on the ends with the excess height warnings. The middle three, which appeared to be the same height as the end two, had neighter. Are the white (or other color for a white car) on the ends and warnings required on excess height cars?

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Posted by kenneo on Friday, April 29, 2005 12:34 AM
Ahhhhhhhh, errrrrrrrr, they used to be. There are two methods for determining "excess" height. One is the arbitrary limit determined by rule, and I can't recall the exact number, but it is about 13 feet ATR if I correctly recall. The other is based on the "Plate" (or mechanical drawing / erection drawing) used to design the car and then build it. What happens is that the longer (and/or wider) the car is the quicker you will get to the point where car will strike a close clearence obstruction so the "excess" starts lower ATR than it otherwise would.
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Posted by spbed on Friday, April 29, 2005 9:45 AM
Were they higher then the very hi-cube auto rackers that the BNSF & UPRR & KSC now have? [:p][:)]

Originally posted by ericsp

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Posted by Junctionfan on Friday, April 29, 2005 10:17 AM
Excess high cubes are usually between 15 to 16 feet high. I believe it's the same for the 86 foot autoboxes. The automax cars I believe is closer to 20 feet which is about the same height as double stacked well car.

I believe that BNSF bought some from Greenbrier as well.
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Posted by mudchicken on Friday, April 29, 2005 10:55 PM
Two 9.5 ft. double stack containers in a well car (all empty) max out at 19'-6". Have seen twice in my career what happens when too big a cube gets forced through too small a tunnel. [censored][censored][censored]
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Posted by jeaton on Friday, April 29, 2005 11:40 PM
If they had designed the portals of tunnels properly, the tops of those excess height boxes would just get peeled back like the top of a sardine can and the train could continue on its way.

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Posted by spbed on Saturday, April 30, 2005 6:23 AM
Yes I meant the Automex cars. The UPRR also has them painted totally in armour yellow. I wonder what will be done with them as the purchase of SUVs continues to decline. [:o)][:p][:)]

Originally posted by Junctionfan

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Posted by spbed on Saturday, April 30, 2005 7:23 AM
The question I have were this supposed "excess" hi cars taller then the Automex or Double stack cars when 2 containers are stacked on them? [:o)][:)]

Originally posted by ericsp

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Posted by CShaveRR on Saturday, April 30, 2005 9:48 AM
I think your question has already been answered. Normal hi-cube box cars are around 17 feet high. Most auto-rack cars are about 19 feet high. Double-stack cars load to 19'6". TTQX flats, as well as Auto-MAX cars and UP's single-unit Q2 racks (UP does not own or lease any Auto-MAX cars), are 20'2" high. NS has a new hi-cube box car (only one built so far) that is just over 19'1" tall.

The requirement for excess-height areas to be painted may no longer exist, but many, if not most, of the new cars I've seen still have these areas painted in a contrasting color.

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Posted by spbed on Saturday, April 30, 2005 9:53 AM
Thanks so actually then what the starter of thread referred to as excess height was not excess height compared to Automex & even regular A/rackers & 2 hi D/stckers. That is what I am trying to get to. [:o)][:p][:)]

Originally posted by CShaveRR

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Posted by ericsp on Saturday, April 30, 2005 7:54 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed

The question I have were this supposed "excess" hi cars taller then the Automex or Double stack cars when 2 containers are stacked on them? [:o)][:)]

Originally posted by ericsp


What do autocarriers of double stack cars have to do with this? Also, why do you say "supposed"? Two of the five cars have the warnings and white on the ends.

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Posted by Junctionfan on Sunday, May 1, 2005 7:11 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Two 9.5 ft. double stack containers in a well car (all empty) max out at 19'-6". Have seen twice in my career what happens when too big a cube gets forced through too small a tunnel. [censored][censored][censored]


That happened to me in a game and I saw something like that in person. In St.Catharines, CN used to run very long intermodal trains but usually running them on a certain track ( north I believe). For whatever reason, they were routed on a different track and had double stacked domestic containers in the first 20 or so cars. Well, the Merriton bridge over the tracks wasn't high enough so train 154 ended up doing a "shave in a haircut.....to bits" all over the mainline forcing them to go into emergency and Niagara Regional Police had to close the bridge and make sure it was structurally safe for cars to travel on (Merriton Road is a very busy street-didn't help traffic in St.Catharines).

Some of those containers when stacked, were not an issue. I don't know what height they were. They were of course the 40 footers.
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Posted by spbed on Sunday, May 1, 2005 3:02 PM
Well years ago the rule was ONLY 1X 8'6" + 1X 9'6". per well. Now a days I have seen 2X 9"6" when I have been out railfanning so I have to guess on certain routes in the USA they can accomdate that height. Shucks Automex cars are over 20' so for sure their has to be routes where 2X9'6" are acceptable. [:o)][:D]

Originally posted by Junctionfan
[

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Posted by spbed on Sunday, May 1, 2005 3:05 PM
Yes was not the height also posted on the cars you saw? Also were they higher the Automex car of a D/stacker with 2X9'6" container on it? [:o)]

Originally posted by ericsp

Originally posted by spbed
[

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Posted by ericsp on Sunday, May 1, 2005 8:27 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed

Yes was not the height also posted on the cars you saw? Also were they higher the Automex car of a D/stacker with 2X9'6" container on it? [:o)]

Originally posted by ericsp

Originally posted by spbed
[

The NSC built BN car I saw, which had the white panels and excess height warnings and appeared to be the same height as the others, has an external height of 16'-10".

For the second time, what does the height of the AutoMax and loaded double stack cars have to do with this?

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Posted by Junctionfan on Sunday, May 1, 2005 9:16 PM
We were comparing other excess height railcars with the high-cube box car. Just thought we would add some more info in case you or anybody else had any recent questions or just for the heck of it, refreshed each others memories about anything having to do with excess height.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, May 1, 2005 10:24 PM
Take a look at the tunnels on the Tehacapi's. they can accomodate two 9-7s in a well. The BNSF paid for the project quite a few years ago. Crews came in with mining equipment and grooved a notch on both sides of all tunnels. This was done specifically to get two 9-7s thru the tunnels.
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Posted by spbed on Monday, May 2, 2005 6:25 AM
Yes I saw that when I was there. [:o)][:)]

Originally posted by virlon

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Posted by spbed on Monday, May 2, 2005 6:28 AM
OK excess height would be a Automex A/racker or 2X9'6" D./stackers. 16" maybe hi for a boxcar but surely not in general terms in todays railroading. That is what I am saying [:o)][:)]

Originally posted by ericsp

Originally posted by spbed
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Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, May 2, 2005 1:04 PM
Actuall, I made a mistake in my post giving the height of the hi-cube box cars (it's 17 feet, not 15). I've corrected it.

Spbed, excess height is excess height--if the height exceeds the dimensions of Plate B, it's excessive for some lines. Please leave it at that.

Carl

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