QUOTE: He also commented on the Accella disaster. His basic premise was it wasn't Amtrak's fault but bureaucratic problems caused the current mess
QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd Why the new cars? What's wrong with Amfleet? What would they do with all the displaced Amfleet?
Originally posted by gabe [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply gabe Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Indianapolis, Indiana 2,434 posts Posted by gabe on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 12:57 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by conrailman To: Gabe: Amtrak needs 30 Billion for Northeast Corridor to get it into A- Shape again, and 350 New Cars for the Corridor. To Conrailman: Gunn stated on C-SPAN, April 26, 6:21 p.m. Eastern Time in no uncertain terms that he only needed 2 Billion. I think I am going to have to go with Gunn on this one. Gabe Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 12:56 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by conrailman To: Gabe: Amtrak needs 30 Billion for Northeast Corridor to get it into A- Shape again, and 350 New Cars for the Corridor. Why the new cars? What's wrong with Amfleet? What would they do with all the displaced Amfleet? -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply conrailman Member sinceDecember 2001 From: NS Main Line at MP12 Blairsville,Pa 830 posts Posted by conrailman on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:46 AM To: Gabe: Amtrak needs 30 Billion for Northeast Corridor to get it into A- Shape again, and 350 New Cars for the Corridor. Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:33 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe Oltmannd, RE: Amtrak and Buearacracy. That is just the opponents of Amtrak's point though. They contend that every project that Amtrak ever does will be miered in such problems, therefore we should just do away with it--i.e. it is impossible to get government out of a government-run railroad. Gabe Exactly. But, if "perfect" isn't available, I'd rather settle for "better" than "none at all." I think Amtrak could be "better" - maybe a lot better - and still be gov't owned. Even with all it's faults, Acela is still a commercial sucess. Imagine how good it would be if it cost 1/2 as much per train set and Amtrak had double the number of train sets! -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply Chris30 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: near Chicago 937 posts Posted by Chris30 on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:27 AM I sure hope your boss knows what the Big Dig is. Otherwise, it might be "...don't let my BIG foot DIG too deep of a hole in your***and don't let my BIG door hit ya in the***on the way out" CC. Reply gabe Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Indianapolis, Indiana 2,434 posts Posted by gabe on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:26 AM Oltmannd, RE: Amtrak and Buearacracy. That is just the opponents of Amtrak's point though. They contend that every project that Amtrak ever does will be miered in such problems, therefore we should just do away with it--i.e. it is impossible to get government out of a government-run railroad. Gabe Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:06 AM Amtrak and buearacracy: Gunn was right that Acela wasn't done right because it was a creature of legislation. Once trip times, max speed, etc. were specified by politicians with the non-RR savy Amtrak execs of the time, it was "game over." The economics were secondary to the performance. A real business would take their capital budget an do the investment where it produces the greatest return, strategically and tactically. So, in that regard, Gunn has a point. Amtrak is also ham-strung with labor protection and labor rule, many of which are supported by legislation. A real business does not have to worry too much about Congress meddling in labor relations. JNR: I think JNR does operate at a loss overall, but the Bullet train network is in the black. Of course, if those money losing feeder lines are the life blood for the Bullets. In the US, Acela and Metroliner show black ink with the rest of the system in the red, but they wouldn't if the rest of the system evaporated. Also, I'll bet that when you add all frt and passenger together in the US, you get a net profit. Wonder if the US is the only place in the world this is true? Big Dig: I actually saw a politician (or DOT buearacrat) say, with a straight face, that the Big Dig was worth the $14B. I'm going to use that as an agrument next time I'm up for a raise, "If the Big Dig is worth $14B, then I must be worth $xxx." -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:27 AM ...No question the big dig was a construction monster that has almost no equal in this country...and as you mention it is not finished spending money....Leaks of serious nature are happening and who knows how that will be overcome and at what cost. It just seems Amtrak continously get singled out for spending money and for what results in this country...Believe we all agree it needs revised and put on the right track and will serve a lot of our citizens if we ever tackle the job and do it.... Quentin Reply gabe Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Indianapolis, Indiana 2,434 posts Amtrak, Big Dig v. NEC, and David Gunn Posted by gabe on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:18 AM C-span had an interview with David Gunn yesterday. The interview was fairly interesting and I learned a few things (like the fact that Gunn is a Canadian). In the past, I have been a proponent of getting rid of Amtrak--not because I really think we need to get rid of Amtrak, but because we need to either do it right or not do it at all. However, Gunn threw out some interesting numbers. The Big Dig cost $14 BILLION and because of the many problems it is now facing looks like the expense is not done. It would only cost $2 billion to fix the NEC and make it more efficient. Huh . . . . . . He also commented on the Accella disaster. His basic premise was it wasn't Amtrak's fault but bureaucratic problems caused the current mess. I found this argument less convincing--as the contention that Amtrak can never be run efficiently because it is an uber beuaracratic institution. He lastly commented about the alleged success of the Japanese Rail system. He noted that its profitability was a myth. But we can talk about that more should the conversation take us that way. Any comments? Gabe Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
QUOTE: Originally posted by conrailman To: Gabe: Amtrak needs 30 Billion for Northeast Corridor to get it into A- Shape again, and 350 New Cars for the Corridor.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe Oltmannd, RE: Amtrak and Buearacracy. That is just the opponents of Amtrak's point though. They contend that every project that Amtrak ever does will be miered in such problems, therefore we should just do away with it--i.e. it is impossible to get government out of a government-run railroad. Gabe
Quentin
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