"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
Originally posted by mbkcs Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:14 AM Now CNN says 50 or more are dead. Over 400 seriously hurt. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply gabe Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Indianapolis, Indiana 2,434 posts Posted by gabe on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:20 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Now CNN says 50 or more are dead. Over 400 seriously hurt. One of the best things about this website is that CNN.com is becoming redundant. Advertisers for CNN.com really have to be upset. Gabe Reply Jack_S Member sinceDecember 2004 339 posts Posted by Jack_S on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:21 AM I saw the pics. The apartment building seems to have won. Reports say the driver was 11 months on the job and had overshot the last station before the wreck. He had been cited for overshooting in the past also. Reply cherokee woman Member sinceNovember 2003 From: Louisville, KY 9,002 posts Posted by cherokee woman on Monday, April 25, 2005 2:54 PM My condolences and prayers are with everyone involved. cherokee woman "O'Toole's law: Murphy was an optimist." Reply martin.knoepfel Member sinceDecember 2003 400 posts Posted by martin.knoepfel on Monday, April 25, 2005 3:10 PM These are extremely sad news. The latest news speak of 55 people killed and of train going too fast. Japanes commuter trains are often extremely crowded. When an accident happens, the consequendes are much worse. Reply vsmith Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Smoggy L.A. 10,743 posts Posted by vsmith on Monday, April 25, 2005 3:31 PM http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050425/ap_on_re_as/japan_train_derailed_25 Now saying that in order to jump tracks, it would have to have been going over 80mph, the curves speed limit was about 45mph. The driver had been repremanded for speeding before and now they cannot find him. Have fun with your trains Reply techguy57 Member sinceAugust 2003 From: NW Chicago 591 posts Posted by techguy57 on Monday, April 25, 2005 6:06 PM Awful, truly awful. Today is also exactly one year from that terrible North Korean trains wreck. My condolences to all the friends and families. Mike techguy "Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick it once and you suck forever." - Anonymous Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 9:23 AM This is very sad, indeed. However, it is important to note that Japan probably has the safest railway system in the world. I believe that the last major wreck in Japan was back in the 80's when a commuter train smashed into one that was sitting at a station. At that time, it was Japan's last major wreck in 20 years. Even smaller derailments are rare in the country. Railway workers are really trained hard and have extremely strict regulations to follow. Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 12:58 PM They say now over 60 have lost their lives in this accident. [:(] Originally posted by Sask_Tinplater [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:35 PM Well they stated that 78 killed so far and 440 injured. That is just about everyone on that train. I have kept quiet on the wreck because I have very strong feelings about a kiddie 23 year old being allowed such a important job and failing to follow the laws, physics and safety. Too much reminder of some drivers at that age (Myself included) who were hell on wheels at over 100 mph. They said that this young engineer has overshot a platform once because of excessive speed and was warned about it. And passengers stated that he again overshot a platform that day before the wreck. Even the train crew (Stewards etc) stated the train was rolling a bit faster than usual. If THEY noticed the speed then the kid hogger ...*ahem Piglet (Forgive me Bergie) was really stoking the coal on that run. I am sorry that the train was running late, but speed is NOT the answer. The engineer foolishly tried to make up the lost time and lost the train and many people aboard. There is NO shortcut to being already late that is worth the damage, loss of life and equiptment. My prayers to the survivors and those who have lost kin or friends. Better late and safe than fast and dead or worse. Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 3:01 PM Sorry to say CNN reports 73 now dead. [:D][:p] QUOTE: Originally posted by mbkcs cnn.com is showing a train versus an apartment building in Japan. I always think of derailments as train's on their sides and effecting buildings around it, but how often does a train derail into a building? Condolences and prayers to the victims. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply eastside Member sinceMarch 2001 From: New York City 805 posts Posted by eastside on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 3:13 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Sask_Tinplater This is very sad, indeed. However, it is important to note that Japan probably has the safest railway system in the world. I believe that the last major wreck in Japan was back in the 80's when a commuter train smashed into one that was sitting at a station. At that time, it was Japan's last major wreck in 20 years. Even smaller derailments are rare in the country. Railway workers are really trained hard and have extremely strict regulations to follow. I might add that in Japan on a typical day there are 60 million riders and that trains there are expected and do arrive timed to within a minute. During rush hours people in commuter trains are usually packed like sardines. Undoubtedly, this contributed to the high casualty toll. Reply Kozzie Member sinceJanuary 2003 From: Australia 786 posts Posted by Kozzie on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 5:02 PM The pictures from the media are horrific, but it's only the tip of the iceberg of all the combined grief and suffering. I hope they can find out what really happened and why, including all the factors that lead up to this horror. Dave Reply espeefoamer Member sinceNovember 2003 From: West Coast 4,122 posts Posted by espeefoamer on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 6:44 PM Our local newspaper this morning listed 78 dead.The train was said to be running 20 MPH over the speed limit[:(]. Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool. Reply csxengineer98 Member sinceOctober 2002 From: US 2,358 posts Posted by csxengineer98 on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 7:24 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar Well they stated that 78 killed so far and 440 injured. That is just about everyone on that train. I have kept quiet on the wreck because I have very strong feelings about a kiddie 23 year old being allowed such a important job and failing to follow the laws, physics and safety. Too much reminder of some drivers at that age (Myself included) who were hell on wheels at over 100 mph. They said that this young engineer has overshot a platform once because of excessive speed and was warned about it. And passengers stated that he again overshot a platform that day before the wreck. Even the train crew (Stewards etc) stated the train was rolling a bit faster than usual. If THEY noticed the speed then the kid hogger ...*ahem Piglet (Forgive me Bergie) was really stoking the coal on that run. I am sorry that the train was running late, but speed is NOT the answer. The engineer foolishly tried to make up the lost time and lost the train and many people aboard. There is NO shortcut to being already late that is worth the damage, loss of life and equiptment. My prayers to the survivors and those who have lost kin or friends. Better late and safe than fast and dead or worse. age has nothing to do with it... i was 22 when i got in the seat...and trusted with the job....age has nothing to do with anything like this... it comes down to experiance or inexperiance..what would your responces have been if it turned out that it was an engineer with 30 years service and in his 60s trying to make up time?.... making comments about age and the seat is total bull.... csx engineer "I AM the higher source" Keep the wheels on steel Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:02 AM They now say 95 have died in this accident[:(] Originally posted by mbkcs [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply AntonioFP45 Member sinceDecember 2003 From: Good ol' USA 9,641 posts Posted by AntonioFP45 on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:22 AM This is a horrid trajedy. Your right CSXengineer. Experience, along with attitude makes a big difference. Guys, something to consider. COMPLACENCY. Japan probably has the safest passenger train operation statistics in the world. Just my opinion, but it's likely that the managers that reprimanded (wrist slapped) this young engineer had never had to deal with a devastating disaster like this before, so they might not have seriously fathomed the potential disaster that this man could cause. I could see one violation, but two? Here in the states, depending on the commuter rail authority's employee disciplinary policy, that would have been a lengthy suspension, a demotion, or employee termination. It's fair to assume now that Japanese railway managers are going to suddenly clamp down on violations such as speeding. God comfort those families and friends. "I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!" Reply eastside Member sinceMarch 2001 From: New York City 805 posts Posted by eastside on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:51 AM An article in today's NY Times describes Japan's obsession with being on time. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/27/international/asia/27japan.html? When the bullet trains started arriving an average of 6 seconds late, there was an uproar. Reply Chris30 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: near Chicago 937 posts Posted by Chris30 on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:15 AM I really haven't followed this story too closely. Was the train running late because the engineer overshot a platform, then had to back up to the station? If the answer is yes, then, did the engineer compound the mistake by trying to makeup time? CC Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:02 AM Sorry to report now over 100 are dead. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply vsmith Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Smoggy L.A. 10,743 posts Posted by vsmith on Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:45 AM Did they ever track down the engineer? Have fun with your trains Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, April 28, 2005 10:21 AM Just a slight change in topic. Maybe our "antiquated" FRA carbody strength and collision provisions aren't so "antiquated" after all? I think I like the idea of riding in cars with 1M lbs buff stength and collision posts at each end. -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply vsmith Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Smoggy L.A. 10,743 posts Posted by vsmith on Thursday, April 28, 2005 1:26 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd Just a slight change in topic. Maybe our "antiquated" FRA carbody strength and collision provisions aren't so "antiquated" after all? I think I like the idea of riding in cars with 1M lbs buff stength and collision posts at each end. You might be right , that lead car looked like a Coors can that had been kicked by Godzilla[:0] Have fun with your trains Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, April 28, 2005 1:30 PM Is the "worse" RR accident in terms of deaths in say the last 50 years?[:(] Originally posted by vsmith Originally posted by oltmannd [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply jockellis Member sinceMay 2002 From: Just outside Atlanta 422 posts Posted by jockellis on Friday, April 29, 2005 11:20 AM American railroads used to get in an uproar when their trains were late. I believe that's why the Illinois Central dispatcher called on Casey Jones to take over the train which cost him his life, but gave him immortality. If the IC had wanted someone to just get the train to its destination hours late, it would have called on any number of other hoggers. But Casey, they knew, could make it fly. Now of course, if an AMTRAK train comes in late, they just change the schedule to allow for the extra time. Of course, it is usually the fault of the host railroads that AMTRAK is late. I read about a, I think, Atlantic Coastline train competing against Seaboard Airline ( or vice versa) for a mail contract to jacksonville. The engineer opened the throttle in a curve and the conductor grabbed a hot steam pipe to help him stay upright. "If felt strangely cold," the conductor said after the frightening incident of going aorund a curve at 112 mph. Luckily, railroads don't condone that sort of thing any more! Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Georgia Association of Railroad Passengers Reply TH&B Member sinceJuly 2003 964 posts Posted by TH&B on Friday, April 29, 2005 11:49 AM The railways of Japan have an otherwise exelent "track record". I beleive this is a one off accident. A very unfortunate one but probably inevitable on the long run. Nothing is pure safe. Having said that I don't realy think changing very much would do more then inconvenience their whole sociaty by increasing the buff strength (the train hit a building, it ain't gonna make it) or disciplining some other engineers because they can't do anything about this guy now. You know what they might do to solve the problem? The Japanese are tech wizards and will adopt to driverless trains, can't count on human judgement now, liability is too high. And they will develope the driverless trains quickly and to such perfection and cost effectiveness that even the USA will adapt to driverless trains (so it may even will affect us). They won't increase no buff strength because if a train crashes into a building like that it is going to "smash" anyways. The high toll is because of crowdedness wich they cannot do anything about. Japan is a crowded place. At least because the train was electric fuel did not catch on fire..... thank whoever for that. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 29, 2005 12:28 PM Yes he was the last dead person pulled from the wreckage. [:(] QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith Did they ever track down the engineer? Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Now CNN says 50 or more are dead. Over 400 seriously hurt.
Have fun with your trains
Originally posted by Sask_Tinplater [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 1:35 PM Well they stated that 78 killed so far and 440 injured. That is just about everyone on that train. I have kept quiet on the wreck because I have very strong feelings about a kiddie 23 year old being allowed such a important job and failing to follow the laws, physics and safety. Too much reminder of some drivers at that age (Myself included) who were hell on wheels at over 100 mph. They said that this young engineer has overshot a platform once because of excessive speed and was warned about it. And passengers stated that he again overshot a platform that day before the wreck. Even the train crew (Stewards etc) stated the train was rolling a bit faster than usual. If THEY noticed the speed then the kid hogger ...*ahem Piglet (Forgive me Bergie) was really stoking the coal on that run. I am sorry that the train was running late, but speed is NOT the answer. The engineer foolishly tried to make up the lost time and lost the train and many people aboard. There is NO shortcut to being already late that is worth the damage, loss of life and equiptment. My prayers to the survivors and those who have lost kin or friends. Better late and safe than fast and dead or worse. Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 3:01 PM Sorry to say CNN reports 73 now dead. [:D][:p] QUOTE: Originally posted by mbkcs cnn.com is showing a train versus an apartment building in Japan. I always think of derailments as train's on their sides and effecting buildings around it, but how often does a train derail into a building? Condolences and prayers to the victims. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply eastside Member sinceMarch 2001 From: New York City 805 posts Posted by eastside on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 3:13 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Sask_Tinplater This is very sad, indeed. However, it is important to note that Japan probably has the safest railway system in the world. I believe that the last major wreck in Japan was back in the 80's when a commuter train smashed into one that was sitting at a station. At that time, it was Japan's last major wreck in 20 years. Even smaller derailments are rare in the country. Railway workers are really trained hard and have extremely strict regulations to follow. I might add that in Japan on a typical day there are 60 million riders and that trains there are expected and do arrive timed to within a minute. During rush hours people in commuter trains are usually packed like sardines. Undoubtedly, this contributed to the high casualty toll. Reply Kozzie Member sinceJanuary 2003 From: Australia 786 posts Posted by Kozzie on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 5:02 PM The pictures from the media are horrific, but it's only the tip of the iceberg of all the combined grief and suffering. I hope they can find out what really happened and why, including all the factors that lead up to this horror. Dave Reply espeefoamer Member sinceNovember 2003 From: West Coast 4,122 posts Posted by espeefoamer on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 6:44 PM Our local newspaper this morning listed 78 dead.The train was said to be running 20 MPH over the speed limit[:(]. Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool. Reply csxengineer98 Member sinceOctober 2002 From: US 2,358 posts Posted by csxengineer98 on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 7:24 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar Well they stated that 78 killed so far and 440 injured. That is just about everyone on that train. I have kept quiet on the wreck because I have very strong feelings about a kiddie 23 year old being allowed such a important job and failing to follow the laws, physics and safety. Too much reminder of some drivers at that age (Myself included) who were hell on wheels at over 100 mph. They said that this young engineer has overshot a platform once because of excessive speed and was warned about it. And passengers stated that he again overshot a platform that day before the wreck. Even the train crew (Stewards etc) stated the train was rolling a bit faster than usual. If THEY noticed the speed then the kid hogger ...*ahem Piglet (Forgive me Bergie) was really stoking the coal on that run. I am sorry that the train was running late, but speed is NOT the answer. The engineer foolishly tried to make up the lost time and lost the train and many people aboard. There is NO shortcut to being already late that is worth the damage, loss of life and equiptment. My prayers to the survivors and those who have lost kin or friends. Better late and safe than fast and dead or worse. age has nothing to do with it... i was 22 when i got in the seat...and trusted with the job....age has nothing to do with anything like this... it comes down to experiance or inexperiance..what would your responces have been if it turned out that it was an engineer with 30 years service and in his 60s trying to make up time?.... making comments about age and the seat is total bull.... csx engineer "I AM the higher source" Keep the wheels on steel Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:02 AM They now say 95 have died in this accident[:(] Originally posted by mbkcs [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply AntonioFP45 Member sinceDecember 2003 From: Good ol' USA 9,641 posts Posted by AntonioFP45 on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:22 AM This is a horrid trajedy. Your right CSXengineer. Experience, along with attitude makes a big difference. Guys, something to consider. COMPLACENCY. Japan probably has the safest passenger train operation statistics in the world. Just my opinion, but it's likely that the managers that reprimanded (wrist slapped) this young engineer had never had to deal with a devastating disaster like this before, so they might not have seriously fathomed the potential disaster that this man could cause. I could see one violation, but two? Here in the states, depending on the commuter rail authority's employee disciplinary policy, that would have been a lengthy suspension, a demotion, or employee termination. It's fair to assume now that Japanese railway managers are going to suddenly clamp down on violations such as speeding. God comfort those families and friends. "I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!" Reply eastside Member sinceMarch 2001 From: New York City 805 posts Posted by eastside on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:51 AM An article in today's NY Times describes Japan's obsession with being on time. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/27/international/asia/27japan.html? When the bullet trains started arriving an average of 6 seconds late, there was an uproar. Reply Chris30 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: near Chicago 937 posts Posted by Chris30 on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:15 AM I really haven't followed this story too closely. Was the train running late because the engineer overshot a platform, then had to back up to the station? If the answer is yes, then, did the engineer compound the mistake by trying to makeup time? CC Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:02 AM Sorry to report now over 100 are dead. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply vsmith Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Smoggy L.A. 10,743 posts Posted by vsmith on Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:45 AM Did they ever track down the engineer? Have fun with your trains Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, April 28, 2005 10:21 AM Just a slight change in topic. Maybe our "antiquated" FRA carbody strength and collision provisions aren't so "antiquated" after all? I think I like the idea of riding in cars with 1M lbs buff stength and collision posts at each end. -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply vsmith Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Smoggy L.A. 10,743 posts Posted by vsmith on Thursday, April 28, 2005 1:26 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd Just a slight change in topic. Maybe our "antiquated" FRA carbody strength and collision provisions aren't so "antiquated" after all? I think I like the idea of riding in cars with 1M lbs buff stength and collision posts at each end. You might be right , that lead car looked like a Coors can that had been kicked by Godzilla[:0] Have fun with your trains Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, April 28, 2005 1:30 PM Is the "worse" RR accident in terms of deaths in say the last 50 years?[:(] Originally posted by vsmith Originally posted by oltmannd [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply jockellis Member sinceMay 2002 From: Just outside Atlanta 422 posts Posted by jockellis on Friday, April 29, 2005 11:20 AM American railroads used to get in an uproar when their trains were late. I believe that's why the Illinois Central dispatcher called on Casey Jones to take over the train which cost him his life, but gave him immortality. If the IC had wanted someone to just get the train to its destination hours late, it would have called on any number of other hoggers. But Casey, they knew, could make it fly. Now of course, if an AMTRAK train comes in late, they just change the schedule to allow for the extra time. Of course, it is usually the fault of the host railroads that AMTRAK is late. I read about a, I think, Atlantic Coastline train competing against Seaboard Airline ( or vice versa) for a mail contract to jacksonville. The engineer opened the throttle in a curve and the conductor grabbed a hot steam pipe to help him stay upright. "If felt strangely cold," the conductor said after the frightening incident of going aorund a curve at 112 mph. Luckily, railroads don't condone that sort of thing any more! Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Georgia Association of Railroad Passengers Reply TH&B Member sinceJuly 2003 964 posts Posted by TH&B on Friday, April 29, 2005 11:49 AM The railways of Japan have an otherwise exelent "track record". I beleive this is a one off accident. A very unfortunate one but probably inevitable on the long run. Nothing is pure safe. Having said that I don't realy think changing very much would do more then inconvenience their whole sociaty by increasing the buff strength (the train hit a building, it ain't gonna make it) or disciplining some other engineers because they can't do anything about this guy now. You know what they might do to solve the problem? The Japanese are tech wizards and will adopt to driverless trains, can't count on human judgement now, liability is too high. And they will develope the driverless trains quickly and to such perfection and cost effectiveness that even the USA will adapt to driverless trains (so it may even will affect us). They won't increase no buff strength because if a train crashes into a building like that it is going to "smash" anyways. The high toll is because of crowdedness wich they cannot do anything about. Japan is a crowded place. At least because the train was electric fuel did not catch on fire..... thank whoever for that. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 29, 2005 12:28 PM Yes he was the last dead person pulled from the wreckage. [:(] QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith Did they ever track down the engineer? Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by mbkcs cnn.com is showing a train versus an apartment building in Japan. I always think of derailments as train's on their sides and effecting buildings around it, but how often does a train derail into a building? Condolences and prayers to the victims.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Sask_Tinplater This is very sad, indeed. However, it is important to note that Japan probably has the safest railway system in the world. I believe that the last major wreck in Japan was back in the 80's when a commuter train smashed into one that was sitting at a station. At that time, it was Japan's last major wreck in 20 years. Even smaller derailments are rare in the country. Railway workers are really trained hard and have extremely strict regulations to follow.
QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar Well they stated that 78 killed so far and 440 injured. That is just about everyone on that train. I have kept quiet on the wreck because I have very strong feelings about a kiddie 23 year old being allowed such a important job and failing to follow the laws, physics and safety. Too much reminder of some drivers at that age (Myself included) who were hell on wheels at over 100 mph. They said that this young engineer has overshot a platform once because of excessive speed and was warned about it. And passengers stated that he again overshot a platform that day before the wreck. Even the train crew (Stewards etc) stated the train was rolling a bit faster than usual. If THEY noticed the speed then the kid hogger ...*ahem Piglet (Forgive me Bergie) was really stoking the coal on that run. I am sorry that the train was running late, but speed is NOT the answer. The engineer foolishly tried to make up the lost time and lost the train and many people aboard. There is NO shortcut to being already late that is worth the damage, loss of life and equiptment. My prayers to the survivors and those who have lost kin or friends. Better late and safe than fast and dead or worse.
Originally posted by mbkcs [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply AntonioFP45 Member sinceDecember 2003 From: Good ol' USA 9,641 posts Posted by AntonioFP45 on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:22 AM This is a horrid trajedy. Your right CSXengineer. Experience, along with attitude makes a big difference. Guys, something to consider. COMPLACENCY. Japan probably has the safest passenger train operation statistics in the world. Just my opinion, but it's likely that the managers that reprimanded (wrist slapped) this young engineer had never had to deal with a devastating disaster like this before, so they might not have seriously fathomed the potential disaster that this man could cause. I could see one violation, but two? Here in the states, depending on the commuter rail authority's employee disciplinary policy, that would have been a lengthy suspension, a demotion, or employee termination. It's fair to assume now that Japanese railway managers are going to suddenly clamp down on violations such as speeding. God comfort those families and friends. "I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!" Reply eastside Member sinceMarch 2001 From: New York City 805 posts Posted by eastside on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:51 AM An article in today's NY Times describes Japan's obsession with being on time. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/27/international/asia/27japan.html? When the bullet trains started arriving an average of 6 seconds late, there was an uproar. Reply Chris30 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: near Chicago 937 posts Posted by Chris30 on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:15 AM I really haven't followed this story too closely. Was the train running late because the engineer overshot a platform, then had to back up to the station? If the answer is yes, then, did the engineer compound the mistake by trying to makeup time? CC Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:02 AM Sorry to report now over 100 are dead. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply vsmith Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Smoggy L.A. 10,743 posts Posted by vsmith on Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:45 AM Did they ever track down the engineer? Have fun with your trains Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, April 28, 2005 10:21 AM Just a slight change in topic. Maybe our "antiquated" FRA carbody strength and collision provisions aren't so "antiquated" after all? I think I like the idea of riding in cars with 1M lbs buff stength and collision posts at each end. -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply vsmith Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Smoggy L.A. 10,743 posts Posted by vsmith on Thursday, April 28, 2005 1:26 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd Just a slight change in topic. Maybe our "antiquated" FRA carbody strength and collision provisions aren't so "antiquated" after all? I think I like the idea of riding in cars with 1M lbs buff stength and collision posts at each end. You might be right , that lead car looked like a Coors can that had been kicked by Godzilla[:0] Have fun with your trains Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, April 28, 2005 1:30 PM Is the "worse" RR accident in terms of deaths in say the last 50 years?[:(] Originally posted by vsmith Originally posted by oltmannd [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply jockellis Member sinceMay 2002 From: Just outside Atlanta 422 posts Posted by jockellis on Friday, April 29, 2005 11:20 AM American railroads used to get in an uproar when their trains were late. I believe that's why the Illinois Central dispatcher called on Casey Jones to take over the train which cost him his life, but gave him immortality. If the IC had wanted someone to just get the train to its destination hours late, it would have called on any number of other hoggers. But Casey, they knew, could make it fly. Now of course, if an AMTRAK train comes in late, they just change the schedule to allow for the extra time. Of course, it is usually the fault of the host railroads that AMTRAK is late. I read about a, I think, Atlantic Coastline train competing against Seaboard Airline ( or vice versa) for a mail contract to jacksonville. The engineer opened the throttle in a curve and the conductor grabbed a hot steam pipe to help him stay upright. "If felt strangely cold," the conductor said after the frightening incident of going aorund a curve at 112 mph. Luckily, railroads don't condone that sort of thing any more! Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Georgia Association of Railroad Passengers Reply TH&B Member sinceJuly 2003 964 posts Posted by TH&B on Friday, April 29, 2005 11:49 AM The railways of Japan have an otherwise exelent "track record". I beleive this is a one off accident. A very unfortunate one but probably inevitable on the long run. Nothing is pure safe. Having said that I don't realy think changing very much would do more then inconvenience their whole sociaty by increasing the buff strength (the train hit a building, it ain't gonna make it) or disciplining some other engineers because they can't do anything about this guy now. You know what they might do to solve the problem? The Japanese are tech wizards and will adopt to driverless trains, can't count on human judgement now, liability is too high. And they will develope the driverless trains quickly and to such perfection and cost effectiveness that even the USA will adapt to driverless trains (so it may even will affect us). They won't increase no buff strength because if a train crashes into a building like that it is going to "smash" anyways. The high toll is because of crowdedness wich they cannot do anything about. Japan is a crowded place. At least because the train was electric fuel did not catch on fire..... thank whoever for that. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 29, 2005 12:28 PM Yes he was the last dead person pulled from the wreckage. [:(] QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith Did they ever track down the engineer? Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd Just a slight change in topic. Maybe our "antiquated" FRA carbody strength and collision provisions aren't so "antiquated" after all? I think I like the idea of riding in cars with 1M lbs buff stength and collision posts at each end.
Originally posted by vsmith Originally posted by oltmannd [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply jockellis Member sinceMay 2002 From: Just outside Atlanta 422 posts Posted by jockellis on Friday, April 29, 2005 11:20 AM American railroads used to get in an uproar when their trains were late. I believe that's why the Illinois Central dispatcher called on Casey Jones to take over the train which cost him his life, but gave him immortality. If the IC had wanted someone to just get the train to its destination hours late, it would have called on any number of other hoggers. But Casey, they knew, could make it fly. Now of course, if an AMTRAK train comes in late, they just change the schedule to allow for the extra time. Of course, it is usually the fault of the host railroads that AMTRAK is late. I read about a, I think, Atlantic Coastline train competing against Seaboard Airline ( or vice versa) for a mail contract to jacksonville. The engineer opened the throttle in a curve and the conductor grabbed a hot steam pipe to help him stay upright. "If felt strangely cold," the conductor said after the frightening incident of going aorund a curve at 112 mph. Luckily, railroads don't condone that sort of thing any more! Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Georgia Association of Railroad Passengers Reply TH&B Member sinceJuly 2003 964 posts Posted by TH&B on Friday, April 29, 2005 11:49 AM The railways of Japan have an otherwise exelent "track record". I beleive this is a one off accident. A very unfortunate one but probably inevitable on the long run. Nothing is pure safe. Having said that I don't realy think changing very much would do more then inconvenience their whole sociaty by increasing the buff strength (the train hit a building, it ain't gonna make it) or disciplining some other engineers because they can't do anything about this guy now. You know what they might do to solve the problem? The Japanese are tech wizards and will adopt to driverless trains, can't count on human judgement now, liability is too high. And they will develope the driverless trains quickly and to such perfection and cost effectiveness that even the USA will adapt to driverless trains (so it may even will affect us). They won't increase no buff strength because if a train crashes into a building like that it is going to "smash" anyways. The high toll is because of crowdedness wich they cannot do anything about. Japan is a crowded place. At least because the train was electric fuel did not catch on fire..... thank whoever for that. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 29, 2005 12:28 PM Yes he was the last dead person pulled from the wreckage. [:(] QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith Did they ever track down the engineer? Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by oltmannd [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply jockellis Member sinceMay 2002 From: Just outside Atlanta 422 posts Posted by jockellis on Friday, April 29, 2005 11:20 AM American railroads used to get in an uproar when their trains were late. I believe that's why the Illinois Central dispatcher called on Casey Jones to take over the train which cost him his life, but gave him immortality. If the IC had wanted someone to just get the train to its destination hours late, it would have called on any number of other hoggers. But Casey, they knew, could make it fly. Now of course, if an AMTRAK train comes in late, they just change the schedule to allow for the extra time. Of course, it is usually the fault of the host railroads that AMTRAK is late. I read about a, I think, Atlantic Coastline train competing against Seaboard Airline ( or vice versa) for a mail contract to jacksonville. The engineer opened the throttle in a curve and the conductor grabbed a hot steam pipe to help him stay upright. "If felt strangely cold," the conductor said after the frightening incident of going aorund a curve at 112 mph. Luckily, railroads don't condone that sort of thing any more! Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Georgia Association of Railroad Passengers Reply TH&B Member sinceJuly 2003 964 posts Posted by TH&B on Friday, April 29, 2005 11:49 AM The railways of Japan have an otherwise exelent "track record". I beleive this is a one off accident. A very unfortunate one but probably inevitable on the long run. Nothing is pure safe. Having said that I don't realy think changing very much would do more then inconvenience their whole sociaty by increasing the buff strength (the train hit a building, it ain't gonna make it) or disciplining some other engineers because they can't do anything about this guy now. You know what they might do to solve the problem? The Japanese are tech wizards and will adopt to driverless trains, can't count on human judgement now, liability is too high. And they will develope the driverless trains quickly and to such perfection and cost effectiveness that even the USA will adapt to driverless trains (so it may even will affect us). They won't increase no buff strength because if a train crashes into a building like that it is going to "smash" anyways. The high toll is because of crowdedness wich they cannot do anything about. Japan is a crowded place. At least because the train was electric fuel did not catch on fire..... thank whoever for that. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 29, 2005 12:28 PM Yes he was the last dead person pulled from the wreckage. [:(] QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith Did they ever track down the engineer? Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Georgia Association of Railroad Passengers
QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith Did they ever track down the engineer?
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.