I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
Originally posted by DSchmitt Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Saturday, April 23, 2005 9:18 AM If I may I would like to give you a little analogy here between lets us say the turtle & the hare. I worked for Cunard line who operated the steamships Queen Mary & Queen Elizabeth. Besides being queens of the sea they were usually fully booked every week of the year that they sailed. Now the voyage took 5 days more/less. Now go back in time 48 years to the advent of the 707 & Trans Atlantic flight. In no time flat after the 707s started flying the queens were M/T & within 5 years withdrawn from service. I think that is a pretty good analogy of todays A/trak vs todays jets. [:o)][:D][:p] Originally posted by DSchmitt Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Saturday, April 23, 2005 9:31 AM 440 - Note I said marginal cost per mile. I have to have a car or truck so the registration, license, insurance, and maintenance are a given. I can either chose to drive cross country - which I often do (to the tune of 30 - 40,000 miles per year) or I can fly (which I do about every two weeks) or I can take Amtrak (which I have done once when I had the time). At the time of my Amtrak trip, I thought the fare was high for a sleeper - but I justified it by including the prices of meals and hotels in my comparison. I must say that Amtrak lived up to my best expectations with great service. I will do it again. dd Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Saturday, April 23, 2005 11:11 AM I think the real issue is that Amtrak would need to raise fares about 300% to offset their purported operating losses. dd Reply jeaton Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: Rockton, IL 4,821 posts Posted by jeaton on Saturday, April 23, 2005 11:38 AM dldance- That's way high. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but It is more like the grant request for Operating Expense is around $700 million. I think that is something less than half than operating revenue, so a 50% increase would do the trick. BIG IF! That works only if you could keep all the business. Jay "We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics Reply TH&B Member sinceJuly 2003 964 posts Posted by TH&B on Saturday, April 23, 2005 1:35 PM dldance- ya ok, it works for you wich is an example. The real big difference between Europe and USA is not realy taxes or gas prices or competition, but population density, wich favors HSR in Europe and the way things are in USA favors the car. Not that there aren't more millions of cars in Europe then here. But even parts of USA the population is increasing and may catch up to Europe because Europe is not increasing very much. Even the western USA is becoming less western all the time. Even more so look at Japan. Reply TH&B Member sinceJuly 2003 964 posts Posted by TH&B on Saturday, April 23, 2005 1:44 PM dldance- Still even if those costs you say are a given still have to be payed for. Some people who take the train do not have to pay for all that. Nothing realy is a given. Owning a car and taking the train is a luxury. The best way to live..... exept for when comuting. Reply DSchmitt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: California - moved to North Carolina 2018 4,422 posts Posted by DSchmitt on Saturday, April 23, 2005 1:56 PM In 1999 the subsidy for heavy rail in the USA was 64% Here are some current figures for trains in California: (Dollars in Millions) Pacific Surfliners Revenue $27.7 Expenses $48.3 Farebox Ratio 57.3% Subsidy 42.7% San Joaquins Revenue $22.7 Expences $50.9 Farebox Ratio 44.6% Subsidy 53.4% Capitol Corridor Revenue $16.4 Expenses $39.7 Farebox Ratio 41.3% Subsidy 58.7% The sudsidies for 2001 (the earlist figures I found) were 46.9%, 56.7% and 62.3% I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it. I don't have a leg to stand on. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Sunday, April 24, 2005 3:06 PM The question is if they raised fares just 50% how much would they lose due to loss of patronage? [:o)][:D] Originally posted by jeaton [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 24, 2005 3:38 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Well A/trak has to compete against the jet plane. In my opinion most A/trak customers are elderly & afraid to fly. Interesting opinion. Fantasy, if my observations on the Adirondack are correct. Wayne Reply Edit conrailman Member sinceDecember 2001 From: NS Main Line at MP12 Blairsville,Pa 830 posts Posted by conrailman on Sunday, April 24, 2005 6:34 PM Well cut the Northeast Corridor from Amtrak and save 30 plus billion amtrak operates 100 of own train to 1200 trains of other railroads in Northeast Corridor is Black Hole of Money Pit, Everything to Corridor not to the National System where it should Go for New Cars like Brand new order of 500 Superliners, 50 New Viewliners Diner Cars, Viewliners Lounge Cars 50 , 150 Viewliners Coaches, 50 Baggage Cars.[:D] Reply jockellis Member sinceMay 2002 From: Just outside Atlanta 422 posts Posted by jockellis on Sunday, April 24, 2005 8:54 PM I saw on PBS today that flying to Singapore costs 6.5ยข per mile. Tough to beat that. Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Georgia Association of Railroad Passengers Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 25, 2005 8:55 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by conrailman Well cut the Northeast Corridor from Amtrak and save 30 plus billion .... Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a substantial ridership on the Northeast Corridor? That sounds like telling the Postal Service to save money by cutting mail service to Northeast Cities. Wayne Reply Edit oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Monday, April 25, 2005 9:09 AM In 1976, the Phila to NY fare was $5.25, $6.25 for the Metroliner. Gas costs about $0.60 then. Now, the Amtrak fare is $50, $93 for the Metroliner and gas costs about $2.40. Admittedly, the rail service is better now, but maybe Amtrak fares are too high. It may be that the game Amtrak is playing is maximizing the revenue given their equipment constraints. With bettter access to capital, Amtrak could buy or lease more coaches and lengthen trains for a small incremental cost and if the demand elasticity was right, make more than the incremental cost back in increased revenue. -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:20 AM Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those on the train in my opinion are in a very large minority. [:o)][8D] Originally posted by Muddy Creek Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:25 AM Should have read: Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. [:o)][:D] Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:28 AM Whom is a math whiz & compound those 76 fares to see what they are in todays money?[:o)][:D][:)] Originally posted by oltmannd [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:33 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne Reply Edit oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Monday, April 25, 2005 11:10 AM No math whiz needed. Just use gov't CPI calculator http://www.bls.gov/cpi/home.htm $5.25 in 1976 = $17.84 in 2005 I think Amtrak has (or at least had, in recent history) a cost control issue. -Don -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Monday, April 25, 2005 11:12 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne I agree. So what? My own anecdotal experience with LD trains has been young people in the coaches, old people in the sleepers. A year ago, on a trip in a coach on the Crescent, I was just about the oldest guy in the coach at 48! -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Monday, April 25, 2005 12:00 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne I agree. So what? My own anecdotal experience with LD trains has been young people in the coaches, old people in the sleepers. A year ago, on a trip in a coach on the Crescent, I was just about the oldest guy in the coach at 48! My experience on the Cardinal and the Texas Eagle last month was about the same - young in coach and older in sleepers -- and both trains were full. The Cardinal had been overbooked in coach from Indianapolis to Chicago. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 12:30 PM Thanks so todays tix price is beyond the cost of a tix in 76 using todays money[:o)][:D] Originally posted by oltmannd Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
Originally posted by DSchmitt Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Saturday, April 23, 2005 9:31 AM 440 - Note I said marginal cost per mile. I have to have a car or truck so the registration, license, insurance, and maintenance are a given. I can either chose to drive cross country - which I often do (to the tune of 30 - 40,000 miles per year) or I can fly (which I do about every two weeks) or I can take Amtrak (which I have done once when I had the time). At the time of my Amtrak trip, I thought the fare was high for a sleeper - but I justified it by including the prices of meals and hotels in my comparison. I must say that Amtrak lived up to my best expectations with great service. I will do it again. dd Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Saturday, April 23, 2005 11:11 AM I think the real issue is that Amtrak would need to raise fares about 300% to offset their purported operating losses. dd Reply jeaton Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: Rockton, IL 4,821 posts Posted by jeaton on Saturday, April 23, 2005 11:38 AM dldance- That's way high. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but It is more like the grant request for Operating Expense is around $700 million. I think that is something less than half than operating revenue, so a 50% increase would do the trick. BIG IF! That works only if you could keep all the business. Jay "We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics Reply TH&B Member sinceJuly 2003 964 posts Posted by TH&B on Saturday, April 23, 2005 1:35 PM dldance- ya ok, it works for you wich is an example. The real big difference between Europe and USA is not realy taxes or gas prices or competition, but population density, wich favors HSR in Europe and the way things are in USA favors the car. Not that there aren't more millions of cars in Europe then here. But even parts of USA the population is increasing and may catch up to Europe because Europe is not increasing very much. Even the western USA is becoming less western all the time. Even more so look at Japan. Reply TH&B Member sinceJuly 2003 964 posts Posted by TH&B on Saturday, April 23, 2005 1:44 PM dldance- Still even if those costs you say are a given still have to be payed for. Some people who take the train do not have to pay for all that. Nothing realy is a given. Owning a car and taking the train is a luxury. The best way to live..... exept for when comuting. Reply DSchmitt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: California - moved to North Carolina 2018 4,422 posts Posted by DSchmitt on Saturday, April 23, 2005 1:56 PM In 1999 the subsidy for heavy rail in the USA was 64% Here are some current figures for trains in California: (Dollars in Millions) Pacific Surfliners Revenue $27.7 Expenses $48.3 Farebox Ratio 57.3% Subsidy 42.7% San Joaquins Revenue $22.7 Expences $50.9 Farebox Ratio 44.6% Subsidy 53.4% Capitol Corridor Revenue $16.4 Expenses $39.7 Farebox Ratio 41.3% Subsidy 58.7% The sudsidies for 2001 (the earlist figures I found) were 46.9%, 56.7% and 62.3% I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it. I don't have a leg to stand on. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Sunday, April 24, 2005 3:06 PM The question is if they raised fares just 50% how much would they lose due to loss of patronage? [:o)][:D] Originally posted by jeaton [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 24, 2005 3:38 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Well A/trak has to compete against the jet plane. In my opinion most A/trak customers are elderly & afraid to fly. Interesting opinion. Fantasy, if my observations on the Adirondack are correct. Wayne Reply Edit conrailman Member sinceDecember 2001 From: NS Main Line at MP12 Blairsville,Pa 830 posts Posted by conrailman on Sunday, April 24, 2005 6:34 PM Well cut the Northeast Corridor from Amtrak and save 30 plus billion amtrak operates 100 of own train to 1200 trains of other railroads in Northeast Corridor is Black Hole of Money Pit, Everything to Corridor not to the National System where it should Go for New Cars like Brand new order of 500 Superliners, 50 New Viewliners Diner Cars, Viewliners Lounge Cars 50 , 150 Viewliners Coaches, 50 Baggage Cars.[:D] Reply jockellis Member sinceMay 2002 From: Just outside Atlanta 422 posts Posted by jockellis on Sunday, April 24, 2005 8:54 PM I saw on PBS today that flying to Singapore costs 6.5ยข per mile. Tough to beat that. Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Georgia Association of Railroad Passengers Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 25, 2005 8:55 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by conrailman Well cut the Northeast Corridor from Amtrak and save 30 plus billion .... Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a substantial ridership on the Northeast Corridor? That sounds like telling the Postal Service to save money by cutting mail service to Northeast Cities. Wayne Reply Edit oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Monday, April 25, 2005 9:09 AM In 1976, the Phila to NY fare was $5.25, $6.25 for the Metroliner. Gas costs about $0.60 then. Now, the Amtrak fare is $50, $93 for the Metroliner and gas costs about $2.40. Admittedly, the rail service is better now, but maybe Amtrak fares are too high. It may be that the game Amtrak is playing is maximizing the revenue given their equipment constraints. With bettter access to capital, Amtrak could buy or lease more coaches and lengthen trains for a small incremental cost and if the demand elasticity was right, make more than the incremental cost back in increased revenue. -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:20 AM Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those on the train in my opinion are in a very large minority. [:o)][8D] Originally posted by Muddy Creek Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:25 AM Should have read: Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. [:o)][:D] Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:28 AM Whom is a math whiz & compound those 76 fares to see what they are in todays money?[:o)][:D][:)] Originally posted by oltmannd [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:33 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne Reply Edit oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Monday, April 25, 2005 11:10 AM No math whiz needed. Just use gov't CPI calculator http://www.bls.gov/cpi/home.htm $5.25 in 1976 = $17.84 in 2005 I think Amtrak has (or at least had, in recent history) a cost control issue. -Don -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Monday, April 25, 2005 11:12 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne I agree. So what? My own anecdotal experience with LD trains has been young people in the coaches, old people in the sleepers. A year ago, on a trip in a coach on the Crescent, I was just about the oldest guy in the coach at 48! -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Monday, April 25, 2005 12:00 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne I agree. So what? My own anecdotal experience with LD trains has been young people in the coaches, old people in the sleepers. A year ago, on a trip in a coach on the Crescent, I was just about the oldest guy in the coach at 48! My experience on the Cardinal and the Texas Eagle last month was about the same - young in coach and older in sleepers -- and both trains were full. The Cardinal had been overbooked in coach from Indianapolis to Chicago. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 12:30 PM Thanks so todays tix price is beyond the cost of a tix in 76 using todays money[:o)][:D] Originally posted by oltmannd Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by jeaton [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 24, 2005 3:38 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Well A/trak has to compete against the jet plane. In my opinion most A/trak customers are elderly & afraid to fly. Interesting opinion. Fantasy, if my observations on the Adirondack are correct. Wayne Reply Edit conrailman Member sinceDecember 2001 From: NS Main Line at MP12 Blairsville,Pa 830 posts Posted by conrailman on Sunday, April 24, 2005 6:34 PM Well cut the Northeast Corridor from Amtrak and save 30 plus billion amtrak operates 100 of own train to 1200 trains of other railroads in Northeast Corridor is Black Hole of Money Pit, Everything to Corridor not to the National System where it should Go for New Cars like Brand new order of 500 Superliners, 50 New Viewliners Diner Cars, Viewliners Lounge Cars 50 , 150 Viewliners Coaches, 50 Baggage Cars.[:D] Reply jockellis Member sinceMay 2002 From: Just outside Atlanta 422 posts Posted by jockellis on Sunday, April 24, 2005 8:54 PM I saw on PBS today that flying to Singapore costs 6.5ยข per mile. Tough to beat that. Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Georgia Association of Railroad Passengers Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 25, 2005 8:55 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by conrailman Well cut the Northeast Corridor from Amtrak and save 30 plus billion .... Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a substantial ridership on the Northeast Corridor? That sounds like telling the Postal Service to save money by cutting mail service to Northeast Cities. Wayne Reply Edit oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Monday, April 25, 2005 9:09 AM In 1976, the Phila to NY fare was $5.25, $6.25 for the Metroliner. Gas costs about $0.60 then. Now, the Amtrak fare is $50, $93 for the Metroliner and gas costs about $2.40. Admittedly, the rail service is better now, but maybe Amtrak fares are too high. It may be that the game Amtrak is playing is maximizing the revenue given their equipment constraints. With bettter access to capital, Amtrak could buy or lease more coaches and lengthen trains for a small incremental cost and if the demand elasticity was right, make more than the incremental cost back in increased revenue. -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:20 AM Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those on the train in my opinion are in a very large minority. [:o)][8D] Originally posted by Muddy Creek Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:25 AM Should have read: Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. [:o)][:D] Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:28 AM Whom is a math whiz & compound those 76 fares to see what they are in todays money?[:o)][:D][:)] Originally posted by oltmannd [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:33 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne Reply Edit oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Monday, April 25, 2005 11:10 AM No math whiz needed. Just use gov't CPI calculator http://www.bls.gov/cpi/home.htm $5.25 in 1976 = $17.84 in 2005 I think Amtrak has (or at least had, in recent history) a cost control issue. -Don -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Monday, April 25, 2005 11:12 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne I agree. So what? My own anecdotal experience with LD trains has been young people in the coaches, old people in the sleepers. A year ago, on a trip in a coach on the Crescent, I was just about the oldest guy in the coach at 48! -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Monday, April 25, 2005 12:00 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne I agree. So what? My own anecdotal experience with LD trains has been young people in the coaches, old people in the sleepers. A year ago, on a trip in a coach on the Crescent, I was just about the oldest guy in the coach at 48! My experience on the Cardinal and the Texas Eagle last month was about the same - young in coach and older in sleepers -- and both trains were full. The Cardinal had been overbooked in coach from Indianapolis to Chicago. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 12:30 PM Thanks so todays tix price is beyond the cost of a tix in 76 using todays money[:o)][:D] Originally posted by oltmannd Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Well A/trak has to compete against the jet plane. In my opinion most A/trak customers are elderly & afraid to fly.
Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Georgia Association of Railroad Passengers
QUOTE: Originally posted by conrailman Well cut the Northeast Corridor from Amtrak and save 30 plus billion ....
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Originally posted by Muddy Creek Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:25 AM Should have read: Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. [:o)][:D] Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:28 AM Whom is a math whiz & compound those 76 fares to see what they are in todays money?[:o)][:D][:)] Originally posted by oltmannd [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:33 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne Reply Edit oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Monday, April 25, 2005 11:10 AM No math whiz needed. Just use gov't CPI calculator http://www.bls.gov/cpi/home.htm $5.25 in 1976 = $17.84 in 2005 I think Amtrak has (or at least had, in recent history) a cost control issue. -Don -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Monday, April 25, 2005 11:12 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne I agree. So what? My own anecdotal experience with LD trains has been young people in the coaches, old people in the sleepers. A year ago, on a trip in a coach on the Crescent, I was just about the oldest guy in the coach at 48! -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Monday, April 25, 2005 12:00 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne I agree. So what? My own anecdotal experience with LD trains has been young people in the coaches, old people in the sleepers. A year ago, on a trip in a coach on the Crescent, I was just about the oldest guy in the coach at 48! My experience on the Cardinal and the Texas Eagle last month was about the same - young in coach and older in sleepers -- and both trains were full. The Cardinal had been overbooked in coach from Indianapolis to Chicago. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 12:30 PM Thanks so todays tix price is beyond the cost of a tix in 76 using todays money[:o)][:D] Originally posted by oltmannd Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:25 AM Should have read: Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. [:o)][:D] Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:28 AM Whom is a math whiz & compound those 76 fares to see what they are in todays money?[:o)][:D][:)] Originally posted by oltmannd [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:33 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne Reply Edit oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Monday, April 25, 2005 11:10 AM No math whiz needed. Just use gov't CPI calculator http://www.bls.gov/cpi/home.htm $5.25 in 1976 = $17.84 in 2005 I think Amtrak has (or at least had, in recent history) a cost control issue. -Don -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Monday, April 25, 2005 11:12 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne I agree. So what? My own anecdotal experience with LD trains has been young people in the coaches, old people in the sleepers. A year ago, on a trip in a coach on the Crescent, I was just about the oldest guy in the coach at 48! -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Monday, April 25, 2005 12:00 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne I agree. So what? My own anecdotal experience with LD trains has been young people in the coaches, old people in the sleepers. A year ago, on a trip in a coach on the Crescent, I was just about the oldest guy in the coach at 48! My experience on the Cardinal and the Texas Eagle last month was about the same - young in coach and older in sleepers -- and both trains were full. The Cardinal had been overbooked in coach from Indianapolis to Chicago. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 12:30 PM Thanks so todays tix price is beyond the cost of a tix in 76 using todays money[:o)][:D] Originally posted by oltmannd Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:28 AM Whom is a math whiz & compound those 76 fares to see what they are in todays money?[:o)][:D][:)] Originally posted by oltmannd [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:33 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne Reply Edit oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Monday, April 25, 2005 11:10 AM No math whiz needed. Just use gov't CPI calculator http://www.bls.gov/cpi/home.htm $5.25 in 1976 = $17.84 in 2005 I think Amtrak has (or at least had, in recent history) a cost control issue. -Don -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Monday, April 25, 2005 11:12 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne I agree. So what? My own anecdotal experience with LD trains has been young people in the coaches, old people in the sleepers. A year ago, on a trip in a coach on the Crescent, I was just about the oldest guy in the coach at 48! -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Monday, April 25, 2005 12:00 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne I agree. So what? My own anecdotal experience with LD trains has been young people in the coaches, old people in the sleepers. A year ago, on a trip in a coach on the Crescent, I was just about the oldest guy in the coach at 48! My experience on the Cardinal and the Texas Eagle last month was about the same - young in coach and older in sleepers -- and both trains were full. The Cardinal had been overbooked in coach from Indianapolis to Chicago. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 12:30 PM Thanks so todays tix price is beyond the cost of a tix in 76 using todays money[:o)][:D] Originally posted by oltmannd Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by oltmannd [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 25, 2005 10:33 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne Reply Edit oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Monday, April 25, 2005 11:10 AM No math whiz needed. Just use gov't CPI calculator http://www.bls.gov/cpi/home.htm $5.25 in 1976 = $17.84 in 2005 I think Amtrak has (or at least had, in recent history) a cost control issue. -Don -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Monday, April 25, 2005 11:12 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne I agree. So what? My own anecdotal experience with LD trains has been young people in the coaches, old people in the sleepers. A year ago, on a trip in a coach on the Crescent, I was just about the oldest guy in the coach at 48! -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Monday, April 25, 2005 12:00 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne I agree. So what? My own anecdotal experience with LD trains has been young people in the coaches, old people in the sleepers. A year ago, on a trip in a coach on the Crescent, I was just about the oldest guy in the coach at 48! My experience on the Cardinal and the Texas Eagle last month was about the same - young in coach and older in sleepers -- and both trains were full. The Cardinal had been overbooked in coach from Indianapolis to Chicago. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, April 25, 2005 12:30 PM Thanks so todays tix price is beyond the cost of a tix in 76 using todays money[:o)][:D] Originally posted by oltmannd Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne
QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Sure you may have seen a few "young" persons but in general those "young" people who use the train are a on vast minority to more elderly riders. Though my experience tells me otherwise, assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, may I respectfully ask, "So what?" Wayne I agree. So what? My own anecdotal experience with LD trains has been young people in the coaches, old people in the sleepers. A year ago, on a trip in a coach on the Crescent, I was just about the oldest guy in the coach at 48!
Originally posted by oltmannd Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.