Refocusing Amtrak

[Anonymous]

My wife and I just got back from riding round trip on the Coast Starlight.

Mostly, the trip was a joy. We were wined and travelogued in the parlor car, dined and introduced to new friends in the diner.

The train is a gem...BUT, in my opinion, it's more of a national landmark than a viable means of transportation. We arrived in Seattle over two hours late and in Los Angeles five hours late. No problem for us diehard railfans, but I doubt if the young couple that we met en route will ever take a train again. Fifty years ago, the Southern Pacific's trains ran faster and almost always ON TIME. And, like every Amtrak train we have ever experienced, there was a staff of dedicated employees...and one rude individual who had no concept of customer service.

As much as I love trains, I don't think that the government should be running a railroad...especially over vast distances of the American landscape.

When Amtrak started in 1971, Congress talked a lot about it developing corridors, between cities about 400 miles apart, distances inefficient for either air or highway travel. In the 34 years that have followed, only one new corridor has been sucessfully inaugurated, the Portland-Seattle corridor, and that with a lot of state funding. Most of Amtrak's resources in the meantime have been spent on an attempt to keep the long-distance system running, with mediocre results.

If Mr. Bush is smart, he will leave one or two good long distance trains (I'll vote for the Coast Starlight) and focus on high speed rail in the most heavily populated corridors.

Dean In Cincy

[TheS.P.caboose]

Very accurate reporting on the Coast Starlight and Southern Pacific's trains.

Here in California, there has been some talk of getting a high speed passenger train running between Los Angeles and San Francisco. While the talks have been going on, I haven't seen much as far as action goes.

[Green Bay Paddlers]

Take a look at how METRA is doing things in the Chicago area. Now they're talking about running all the way to Milwaukee. Right now I like their business model...

[overall]

I am not very trustful of President Bush on this one. Just look at how his brother Jeb crushed the High Speed Rail corridor in Florida. He did extra legal things to stop the HSR that he has not done for Terri Chaivo. My feeling is that he was paying a political debt to the highway lobby.

George

[DaveBr]

Me too,I also enjoy the Coast Starlite from Glendale to Albany,Oregon..Me and my wife take it twice a year.Now on April 25 they will no longer stop here in Glendale,Calif.
So if I continue to go to Oregon we will have to go into LosAngeles or over to their new
depot in Van Nuys.Or maybe take the metrolink to the Van Nuys Station,or even take Amtrak California over to take Amtrak.Grrrr. Dave Bryce,Glendale

[AntonioFP45]

Dherbert53,

I've stated this before, but here on the east coast the Silver Service trains have been running with heavy loads from New York to Florida.

[Anonymous]

I took the Coast Starlight for the last time back in the 80s. They fed me a microwaved hamburger because their grill failed enroute. They didn't tell me how they were preparing the food and the Steward was a real peice of work making it the passengers' fault for his problem. I ended up in the hospital for three days suffering from ameobic dysentery. It took all of my willpower not to retain counsel and bring suit after that. I've been on Amtrak since, but I doubt I'll ever go back to the Coast Starlight.

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

I took the Coast Starlight for the last time back in the 80s. They fed me a microwaved hamburger because their grill failed enroute. They didn't tell me how they were preparing the food and the Steward was a real peice of work making it the passengers' fault for his problem. I ended up in the hospital for three days suffering from ameobic dysentery. It took all of my willpower not to retain counsel and bring suit after that. I've been on Amtrak since, but I doubt I'll ever go back to the Coast Starlight.

LC

LC,

That's a pretty hefty charge to put on our bothers and sisters of labor. Can you scan the hospital bill along with your tickets. I seem to understand you play hard and fast with the facts, sort of like that Rush Limbaugh guy.

Jim

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SP9033

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

I took the Coast Starlight for the last time back in the 80s. They fed me a microwaved hamburger because their grill failed enroute. They didn't tell me how they were preparing the food and the Steward was a real peice of work making it the passengers' fault for his problem. I ended up in the hospital for three days suffering from ameobic dysentery. It took all of my willpower not to retain counsel and bring suit after that. I've been on Amtrak since, but I doubt I'll ever go back to the Coast Starlight.

LC

LC,

That's a pretty hefty charge to put on our bothers and sisters of labor. Can you scan the hospital bill along with your tickets. I seem to understand you play hard and fast with the facts, sort of like that Rush Limbaugh guy.

Jim

Jim -

What I said has absolutely nothing to do with any Labor/Management dispute and everything to do with proper customer service provided by a passenger carrier, Amtrak. I guess you just have to paint everything with that labor union brush. It is all just a one issue world to you. And you wonder why jobs are heading offshore. If we don't take better care of our customers, we will have none. Trying to drag labor disputes into customer service only demonstrates that you are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Oh, and Rush Limbaugh and I have nothing in common and I resent that idiotic insinuation.

At least you are predictable, if unintelligent...

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE:

LC,

That's a pretty hefty charge to put on our bothers and sisters of labor. Can you scan the hospital bill along with your tickets. I seem to understand you play hard and fast with the facts, sort of like that Rush Limbaugh guy.

Jim

Hey fellow,

Everyday I'm doing customer service, I'm an LTL freight guy, most generally I enjoy my job. What I can't understand is your rant about Amtrak. So, lets see the hospital bill, and tickets, we're interested in the dates of this service flaw! NO BS, just the dates!

Jim

.

[Anonymous]

July 1983.

LC

[Anonymous]

LC,

Must have been the same dining car steward that we had on the Empire Builder in 1999. LOL. Actually, the food on the Starlight was quite good both ways.

Dean

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dherbert53

LC,

Must have been the same dining car steward that we had on the Empire Builder in 1999. LOL. Actually, the food on the Starlight was quite good both ways.

Dean

Dean -

I've ridden passenger trains since well before Amtrak. I still ride Amtrak when I can. I've had some terrific trips on Amtrak, but, unfortunately, there have been some awful ones as well. After the results of that trip, I just have no desire to take the risk. I'm sure the Steward in question is long gone. Although I refrained from taking legal action, others did not. It got bad enough that I thought there might even be a fistfight between the Steward and one passenger who had been waiting (with his wife and kids) for two hours and was detraining at San Luis Obispo about fifteen minutes later. They got their food, but I know they regretted it too...

LC

[CSXrules4eva]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dherbert53

My wife and I just got back from riding round trip on the Coast Starlight.

Mostly, the trip was a joy. We were wined and travelogued in the parlor car, dined and introduced to new friends in the diner.

The train is a gem...BUT, in my opinion, it's more of a national landmark than a viable means of transportation. We arrived in Seattle over two hours late and in Los Angeles five hours late. No problem for us diehard railfans, but I doubt if the young couple that we met en route will ever take a train again. Fifty years ago, the Southern Pacific's trains ran faster and almost always ON TIME. And, like every Amtrak train we have ever experienced, there was a staff of dedicated employees...and one rude individual who had no concept of customer service.

As much as I love trains, I don't think that the government should be running a railroad...especially over vast distances of the American landscape.

When Amtrak started in 1971, Congress talked a lot about it developing corridors, between cities about 400 miles apart, distances inefficient for either air or highway travel. In the 34 years that have followed, only one new corridor has been sucessfully inaugurated, the Portland-Seattle corridor, and that with a lot of state funding. Most of Amtrak's resources in the meantime have been spent on an attempt to keep the long-distance system running, with mediocre results.

If Mr. Bush is smart, he will leave one or two good long distance trains (I'll vote for the Coast Starlight) and focus on high speed rail in the most heavily populated corridors.

Dean In Cincy

It's interesting that you mentioned that the Coast Starlight was late. Comming from Amtrak that doesn't surprise me one bit. I've noticed that many of Amtrak's trains have been running late lately (arriving and departing from Philadelphia's 30th Street Station and North Philadelphia. I wonder what's going on. One train that runs late all the time is the Three Rivers, ever since they stoped service to Chaiago it seems as if the Three Rivers has been getting tied up in Altoona, PA. I don't know what's going on??/ But, I'll tell you one thing I don't mind riding on Amtrak when delays come about, I'm a RailFan!!! LOL

[Modelcar]

....I just wonder if Amtrak can ever manage to correct late and very late trains now with the physical plant their trains run on....Seems they are at the mercy of most railroad DS and from what one reads much of the time there is no way they can keep schedules sitting in "the hole" so much of the time waiting for clear track. Without much multiple trackage what can be done.....

[Anonymous]

What can be done is to build new HSR passenger only railroad tracks especially from Chicago to Philadelphia, and Miami to Washington DC. After their success, we can build new HSR lines to Texas from Chicago and from Atlanta.

Why not? Hasn't the Acela trains been a success beating the airlines shuttles on the NEC? Its time to expand....to Chicago and to Miami.... not to mention build the HSR line from San Francisco or Oakland to Los Angeles..... NOW!

[MP57313]

I would not expect HSR to get very far unless some very-well politically connected engineering firm (Bechtel?) would have a major stake in it.
But what neighborhoods would be trashed (or bisected) to build it?
Even then, I think it would be a tough sell. The highway folks today don't have as much clout as they used to...it is a lot more difficult today to get a new highway built through a city.

[Anonymous]

Trains will only run on-time when they become a source of pride instead of shame. operating railroads seem to wear them as a shackle. There has to be a "Will to Operate." I.e. enthusiasm for the transportation product provided. Post WWII, after the gilt wore off the new streamliners, passenger trains went out of fashion in the United States. When that happened they became the "nerds of transportation."

In the still black and white movie era of the early '50s one could still find a stock shot or two of passenger trains when the movie script called for a journey between cities. By 1960 all you could see in the flicks was a TWA 707 landing and Zsa Zsa Gabore stepping out with a pink poodle in arms to step into her Cadillac limo. By 1966 we had "Petticoat Junction" on TV, and all was lost in the PR Department.

As long as the general public equates trains with umpah bands, striped shirts and straw hats, and poorly conceived theme restaurants, we're not gonna go anywhere fast. The product still isn't important to the public.

Retro has been in for some time now, and when in the right hands can boost an image. Amtrak's first big mistake, when enthusiasm for a renewed rail service was unbridled, and a good railroad show would have sold well, the new management chose instead to create a very bad airline burlesque show. And don't get me going on the uniforms from that era. Be that as it may, and after what I've seen in over 30 years of railroading, everybody has to really want good, on-time service of a product that instills pride.

Mitch

[Junctionfan]

Sorry to hear about the food poisoning. Did you report them to the health inspector? I would have. Any business that deal with the distribution of prepared food is not supposed to poison its customers; it defeats the purpose of having someone else prepare your food plus its not nice.

My mother works for Sodex-Ho Food Services and both company and health inspectors are incredibly strict on how things are prepared and what conditions the food is stored because they don't want to deal with lawsuits in particular.

Which food service was responsible for Amtrak or were they actual Amtrak employees then?

[jockellis]

Now I'm sure we all deplore the way George Pullman treated the Pullman porters. But his compensation plan of a small salary and tips made sure that ALL his cars were staffed by workers who were dedicated to customer service if only for personal reasons. OT but if you have a chance to read "Rising from the Rails" about the Pullman porters, do so. Very good book.
Jock Ellis
Cumming, GA US of A

[oltmannd]

I think Dean has it about right. Maybe there are some LD trains that can be justified in terms of "connectivity" and social justice (and a half decent farebox recovery). Perhaps the Starlight, Empire Builder, Silver Service, SW Chief and Zephyr and the LS Ltd and/or Cap. Ltd. The rest of the routes you reconfigure for daylight running between the major points on the route. For example, you cut the Crescent at Atlanta, making a daylight run to NY and NO. You might do the same for the City of NO at Memphis and the Cardinal at Cincy.

If you look at Amtrak's monthly reports, the daylight coach trains do much better financially than the overnight LD trains - even on some of those once-a-day routes.

The sleepers & diners you save from the cut LD trains, you can deploy in the summer on the remaining trains, hiring college students, retirees or other part-timers to beef up the staff. You already own them. They have little residual or sale value. As long as the money you earn from them - even seasonally - is greater than the cost to keep them running, you win.

The overall goal would be to redeploy existing assets (people and equipment) to generate more revenue at the same or lower cost. This might put Congress and the admin. in a mood to spend some bucks for more capacity and speed. You concentrate investment on the most promising daylight corridors to improve freqency (first) and speed (later).

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Sorry to hear about the food poisoning. Did you report them to the health inspector? I would have. Any business that deal with the distribution of prepared food is not supposed to poison its customers; it defeats the purpose of having someone else prepare your food plus its not nice.

My mother works for Sodex-Ho Food Services and both company and health inspectors are incredibly strict on how things are prepared and what conditions the food is stored because they don't want to deal with lawsuits in particular.

Which food service was responsible for Amtrak or were they actual Amtrak employees then?

Amtrak runs its food service on long distance routes itself with Amtrak employees.

LC

[Junctionfan]

I thought so. I wasn't to sure because alot of public owned infrastructure has seemed to outsource its food services to the private sector. I was wondering if Amtrak has followed suit? I don't see VIA doing it but I woundn't put it passed Ottawa.

Have you noticed any improvement to the food? When I was heading to Belleville, ON, the food on the train wasn't that special and on the Ocean, VIA's Montreal to Halifax train, my grandparents said the food on it was rather lousy. They said the meat was rubbery and the vegetables were plastic. Is that true for Amtrak?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tomtrain

There's an ad in the Mar.14th New Yorker mag. by a charter jet company called Avion that's offering NY-LA service at $9,899 per seat. I imagine celebrities and top officials will use it for privacy and fine, fast service avoiding the airline hassle.

I've also noticed several tv commercials lately have included clips of European HSR trains in them, Alavert for one.

As I recall, Santa Fe's Super Chief started as a train limited to 60 passengers running one, two, or three trips per week.

Since Amtrak is a political animal, why not lease a couple Colorado railcar units decked out for an exclusive service, and build the pride Mitch speaks of into a Washington Union - NY Penn train tailored to the travel needs of "power people/influencers" to attract them to rail travel?

Tom and all...
I think there's been several attempts at providing a "Special, business car" type of arrangement on the corridor. But, alas, they failed. It would take ,in my thinking, at least a "Flagship" type of train and service that just couldn't be messed with. No excuses for delays, no excusses for lapse in service, a train that was seen in other vendor's commercials as a source of pride. That type of thing was tried once back in '79. It was referred to sa Amtrak's "Showcase Trains." The Broadway, The Crescent, and the Southwest, were all part of that program. But the inertia of the corporate culture watered it down quickly, and it too fell.
I'm afraid the answers are quite complicated and would take the cooperation of all concerned to make a go of it. I remember seeing the "American European Express" equipment tacked to the back of the Capitol when that service ran every day. Being merely cars on the back of an Amtrak train caused the operation to have exactly the same on-time problems that the coach people would have. Alas, we would watch it pull into Hammond or Valpo with all the blinds drawn down so no one would see that the service was empty. We saw one couple sitting in the diner, looking quite forlorn.

By the by, The Santa Fe Deluxe was limited to 60 passengers and ran once a week.beginning in 1911. It lasted until the start of WWI. Extra fare was $25, which was an enormous amount back then.

Mitch

[spbed]

Thank U for your nformation. One of the most major problems as I see it for ATrak is that outside of the NE corridor they are the hands of the freight RRs to get them from point A to point B on time. While I am sure ATrak makes a effort to maintain a schedule I think the freight RRs have a agenda of there own & ATrak is #10 in priorities on a scale of 1 to 10. In the case of the coast liner it is UPRR LAX to the merge point in No. Portland. Then BNSF to Seattle or BNSF hands it back to the UPRR @ east Tacoma for the rest of the trip to Seattle. If it is a choice between a UPS train or ATrak who do you think BNSF will favor? [:D][:p][:)]

Originally posted by dherbert53

Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR  Austin TX Sub

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