Quentin
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Originally posted by kevinstheRRman Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, March 19, 2005 7:27 AM ..Well we have plenty of "tax spenders"...whatever side of the aisle they are on { just check our balance sheet}, it just seems too much of it is going to places other than our own needs here in this country. Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 19, 2005 9:46 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHHAAH!!!!!!!!! I LOVE IT!! here we go again, Right Vs. Left. That solves a lot of problems. Instead of Debating the actual issue, we come short and insult each other because somebody doesn't believe the exact same thing you do. GOLD! this is GOLD! KEEP IT UP~!! popcorn is almost done! [#ditto][#wstupid].....LOL,The average Railfan seeing some stupid topic on Trains Forums. BNSFrailfan. Reply Edit conrailman Member sinceDecember 2001 From: NS Main Line at MP12 Blairsville,Pa 830 posts Posted by conrailman on Saturday, March 19, 2005 11:04 AM Maybe Rob Krebs from the BNSF could do better job than Dave Gunn? Mr.Krebs made the BNSF the top Railroad in the U.S. Just Maybe he could Make Amtrak a World Class System?[:D][8D] Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, March 19, 2005 12:27 PM ....From all I have read and witnessed on TV...I'd say Amtrak has about as good a leader in Mr. Gunn as could be desired. Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 19, 2005 9:59 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by conrailman Maybe Rob Krebs from the BNSF could do better job than Dave Gunn? Mr.Krebs made the BNSF the top Railroad in the U.S. Just Maybe he could Make Amtrak a World Class System?[:D][8D] Ya mabe in the year 2050,When the rest of us are dead and gone. BNSFrailfan. Reply Edit MP57313 Member sinceJune 2001 From: L A County, CA, US 1,009 posts Posted by MP57313 on Sunday, March 20, 2005 12:32 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by gfjwilmde If you think it's better to spend more money overseas, rebuilding the infastructures of foriegn countries, than to rebuild the ones in your country, then you need a 'check up from the neck up'. Hmmm. Maybe if we fold Amtrak under the Department of Defense it would be on more solid footing? Seriously, though, you have a good point. The overseas rebuilding is being done by private contractors performing on DoD contracts. These contractors are corporations, but the funding is primarily US taxpayer monies. Reply gfjwilmde Member sinceNovember 2004 65 posts Posted by gfjwilmde on Sunday, March 20, 2005 4:47 PM To all you railroaders and railfans in these forums...I apologize...again. I'm not one who can truely hide their emotions well, especially when I come to something that affects them personally...like loosing my job(again) because someone can't make a buck off of it. To MP57313, that may sound like a solution, but consider this, out nation's Coast Guard actually falls under the Department of Transportation, eventhough they are sometimes included in the Defense Department's affairs from time to time. I found this out when I served in our nation's Army. I think however, the government needs to reform itself first, before it can suggest that concept to some other government entity. I remember reading a Jane's reference book on all the world's railroads, and in it I remember reading that the French government owns its nation's right of ways and has usage aggrements with the various operating companies. That could be a concept that can be tried here in the areas that have high density corridors. However, the French government still finances its nation's railroads, so it's not such a 'free market capitalistic society after all. However Amtrak if saved or not, the fact is some people will/may loose their jobs. I've made some friends here in my twelve years, and I would hate to see someone I know get laid off all because of someone's unrealistic concepts. It's hard to explain this to anyone if you've never had to experience it for yourself. I've lived it and I've seen it for myself and it's a hard bitter pill to swallow. So once again, for all of those in these forums that are true and honest railroaders or railfans, please accept this, my humblest apologies for any of the comments that I've writtien or will write in the future. However, do me(and yourselves) this one favor . . ."THINK"! ! ! Have a blessed day!!! GLENN A R E A L AND D E V O T E D RAILROADER!!!! A R E A L AND D E V O T E D AMTRAKER!!!! the sophisticated hobo Reply MP57313 Member sinceJune 2001 From: L A County, CA, US 1,009 posts Posted by MP57313 on Sunday, March 20, 2005 5:33 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by gfjwilmde To MP57313, that may sound like a solution, but consider this, out nation's Coast Guard actually falls under the Department of Transportation, eventhough they are sometimes included in the Defense Department's affairs from time to time. GLENN Glenn, Actually that was just a 'point to discuss' and not a recommendation. But I do work with folks who manage government contracts. Most of them lean conservative, but are not opposed to Amtrak per se. There are some pro-Armageddon types but most are just ordinary folks making a living. [#offtopic]The porous border between the US and Mexico, and the inability of government folks to grasp the compliance burdens of the laws they pass are much bigger issues that funding for rail service. If a government employee working overseas chooses to fly a "non-US flag airline" no harm no foul. If a US government contractor flies the same foreign airline, all sorts of justification is needed (to prove that there were no US flag carriers available, etc.). Corporations are required to balance their financial books and records, but large government agencies, including the DoD, are unable to (and will not be able to for the forseeable future). It is these inequities that are aggravating! End [soapbox] MP Reply gvdobler Member sinceNovember 2014 595 posts Posted by gvdobler on Sunday, March 20, 2005 6:42 PM Remember that the government has zero money. The government has no income. The only money they have, they took out of someone's pocket. How much of your check this week should we keep out to give to support AMTRAK? Before you step on your bottom lip, don't say we should make the corporations pay or the rich. They already pay the lion's share of taxes. They also pay your paycheck or your retirement check. The question is, how much more are you willing to pay? Reply conrailman Member sinceDecember 2001 From: NS Main Line at MP12 Blairsville,Pa 830 posts Posted by conrailman on Sunday, March 20, 2005 8:33 PM This isn't a Fair System we give the Highways 35 Billion and Airlines 16 Billion, and Amtrak just 360 Million is just not Fair this year? Congress Should Give Amtrak 5 cents of the Gas Taxes we pay in Federal Taxes, I think the Federal taxes 18 cent. off of 18 cents we give amtrak 5 cents of that instead of giving at 5 cent to the Government to give it to Amtrak.[:D][8D] Reply jeaton Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: Rockton, IL 4,821 posts Posted by jeaton on Sunday, March 20, 2005 8:49 PM gvdobler, As I have noted several times before, the per capita tax load for Amtrak is is about $4.00 per year. It you want to see just how big a tax bite that makes for you, multiply the number on the "Total Tax" line on your federal income tax return for 2004 by .00142. If you don't want to do that, a word of caution. If the there is no subsidy for Amtrak and the money is promised to go back as tax refund, I'd wait to get the check before you put money down on the Mecerdes. Jay "We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics Reply gvdobler Member sinceNovember 2014 595 posts Posted by gvdobler on Sunday, March 20, 2005 9:22 PM Spoken by a true tax advocate. The per capita doesn't pay taxes. Add up all those small taxes and that's why the tax burden is so high. Everyone thinks someone else pays it. If you ask a direct question you get nonsense. How much of the money you make in a year should be taken from you. You are already paying over 50% in various taxes. If you don't believe that you're just not very well informed. Reply jeaton Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: Rockton, IL 4,821 posts Posted by jeaton on Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:55 PM I happen to know exactly what I pay in federal and state income taxes, property taxes, social security and medicare taxes, gas taxes and sales taxes. It is quite a bit short of 50% of my income. When adding them all up, the portion going for my share of the Amtrak subsidy drops to something like .00071 times the total. Because of a business service I perform, over 1000 taxpayers with incomes ranging from four figures to six figures allow me to see their income and tax information and I can assure you that none of them pay 50% of their income for various taxes. The only cirumstance I know where a person may pay 50% or more of income for taxes is when all sources of income have been cut off and they have had to pay a property tax bill on a home that they have been able to continue to own. That is very rare, but when it happens none of their tax money is going to support Amtrak. Yes, it is true that per capita doesn't pay taxes. However, persons do. If this works better for you, the average cost of the Amtrak subsidy per person living in the United States is $4.00 per year. As far as not being well informed, perhaps I don't read or listen enough to the popular media or some politicians when they are speaking about taxes. Maybe that is because all too often the are not presenting the whole truth of the matter. And then some are not providing any truth. "We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics Reply bbrant Member sinceFebruary 2001 415 posts Posted by bbrant on Monday, March 21, 2005 5:10 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by conrailman This isn't a Fair System we give the Highways 35 Billion and Airlines 16 Billion, and Amtrak just 360 Million is just not Fair this year? Congress Should Give Amtrak 5 cents of the Gas Taxes we pay in Federal Taxes, I think the Federal taxes 18 cent. off of 18 cents we give amtrak 5 cents of that instead of giving at 5 cent to the Government to give it to Amtrak.[:D][8D] Good point. Let's treat Amtrak like a welfare recipient. That way they never need to worry about trying to make money because Uncle Sam will always be there to help them out. Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Monday, March 21, 2005 5:17 AM I'd rather treat them like the fire department, the police, the armed services, the street clearners, the local symphiny orchestra ,and the school system, all performng necessary services. Including the symphony orchestra. Reply bbrant Member sinceFebruary 2001 415 posts Posted by bbrant on Monday, March 21, 2005 5:44 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper I'd rather treat them like the fire department, the police, the armed services, the street clearners, the local symphiny orchestra ,and the school system, all performng necessary services. Including the symphony orchestra. You mentioned organizations which aren't expected to make a profit. Amtrak is a business that needs to be concerned about making money. Reply jeaton Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: Rockton, IL 4,821 posts Posted by jeaton on Monday, March 21, 2005 6:30 AM Yes Dave, just like all the other modern railroad passenger services in developed nations that never get any monetary support from their governments and make a profit. LOL. Jay "We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Monday, March 21, 2005 7:35 AM ....Aren't these "modern passenger services in developed nations"...that make a profit really very rare if in fact overall they do at all.... And for us tax payers paying about 4 dollars each to support Amtrak a year....Let's figure what it cost's each of us to continue this Iraqi {war}, operations and it being one of the leading oil producing nations in the world and Uncle Sam still has to "pay"...for their recovery....!! And on top of that with all this mess in the mid east....among other reasons, our gasoline prices are skyrocketing out of sight. Quentin Reply jeaton Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: Rockton, IL 4,821 posts Posted by jeaton on Monday, March 21, 2005 8:44 AM Modelcar You got it. Think hens teeth. Iraq is said to have run up a bill of about 200 billion. That's roughly $665 per person. With three in my family, that starts to get a little serious. Jay "We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics Reply bbrant Member sinceFebruary 2001 415 posts Posted by bbrant on Monday, March 21, 2005 9:07 AM jeaton - So you're saying you'd rather see cuts to our troops who are fighting a war so we can give that money to a faltering passanger service? Reply 12345 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHHAAH!!!!!!!!! I LOVE IT!! here we go again, Right Vs. Left. That solves a lot of problems. Instead of Debating the actual issue, we come short and insult each other because somebody doesn't believe the exact same thing you do. GOLD! this is GOLD! KEEP IT UP~!! popcorn is almost done!
QUOTE: Originally posted by conrailman Maybe Rob Krebs from the BNSF could do better job than Dave Gunn? Mr.Krebs made the BNSF the top Railroad in the U.S. Just Maybe he could Make Amtrak a World Class System?[:D][8D]
QUOTE: Originally posted by gfjwilmde If you think it's better to spend more money overseas, rebuilding the infastructures of foriegn countries, than to rebuild the ones in your country, then you need a 'check up from the neck up'.
QUOTE: Originally posted by gfjwilmde To MP57313, that may sound like a solution, but consider this, out nation's Coast Guard actually falls under the Department of Transportation, eventhough they are sometimes included in the Defense Department's affairs from time to time. GLENN
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
QUOTE: Originally posted by conrailman This isn't a Fair System we give the Highways 35 Billion and Airlines 16 Billion, and Amtrak just 360 Million is just not Fair this year? Congress Should Give Amtrak 5 cents of the Gas Taxes we pay in Federal Taxes, I think the Federal taxes 18 cent. off of 18 cents we give amtrak 5 cents of that instead of giving at 5 cent to the Government to give it to Amtrak.[:D][8D]
QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper I'd rather treat them like the fire department, the police, the armed services, the street clearners, the local symphiny orchestra ,and the school system, all performng necessary services. Including the symphony orchestra.
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