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Railroad speeding tickets?

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Railroad speeding tickets?
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, February 16, 2001 11:05 AM
If cars and trucks can get speeding tickets on our
nations highways, can trains also get speeding
tickets on our nations rail system? If so, how?
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, February 17, 2001 11:30 AM
speeds are preset and regulated by RR. I've seen charts that shows designated speeds for different rail systems..now who is to say the the RR engineer doesn't like to sneak on down the tracks..they have a predestined schedule to go by..
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, February 17, 2001 9:45 PM
yes, you,d better believe RR engineers have speed limits to follow. Randomly our companies locos are downloaded to see if proper speed limits are run. Also, another way to look at it. If an engineer is trying to make a little extra overtime and running under the speed limit than the supervision can also spot this. An engineer can be taken out of service just by exceeding the speed limit by a couple of miles per hour.
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 3, 2001 10:43 AM
Hi Lindsay, in my experience with running on the rails we don't get a chance to get a speeding ticket. We get fired. It may be for only a couple of weeks or it could be perminate depending on the outcome of an investigation, and there is allways an investigation! Railroads love investigations. FRA mandates a max of 5% or 5 mph over the speed restriction before termination is manditory. But most railroads have a zero tolerance policy. Do to litigations in court etc. if speeding is involved in a RR crossing incident. James.
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Posted by traisessive1 on Friday, September 30, 2016 2:22 PM

With Wi-Tronix on the engines they don't even have to download you. They already know.

Speeding isn't worth it. There are no tickets or fines but as mentioned before just discipline or termination. 

10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ... 

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Posted by diningcar on Friday, September 30, 2016 2:43 PM

There are stories from the steam engine days (Casey Jones for example) but one I heard from my former employer goes like this:

Engineer 'Hank' was known to make up time when trains were late and he was actually put on trains for that purpose. His fromer Superintendent was now the AGM and on this day his business car was on the rear of a crack passenger train that was running late, and with 'Hank' at the throtle. When the train arrived at the crew change station the AGM was standing on the platform as 'Hank' walked by. The AGM said " 'Hank' my speedometer in the car indicated you were ten MPH over the speed allowed between MP 685 and MP 692. 'Hanks' response was  "I never saw you go around me" as he continued walking to sign out. 

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Posted by samfp1943 on Friday, September 30, 2016 4:29 PM

diningcar

There are stories from the steam engine days (Casey Jones for example) but one I heard from my former employer goes like this:

Engineer 'Hank' was known to make up time when trains were late and he was actually put on trains for that purpose. His fromer Superintendent was now the AGM and on this day his business car was on the rear of a crack passenger train that was running late, and with 'Hank' at the throtle. When the train arrived at the crew change station the AGM was standing on the platform as 'Hank' walked by. The AGM said " 'Hank' my speedometer in the car indicated you were ten MPH over the speed allowed between MP 685 and MP 692. 'Hanks' response was  "I never saw you go around me" as he continued walking to sign out. 

 

   One of the stories about passenger railroading in Mississippi, that was occasional brought up in conversations, was told about small towns in Mississippi on the "Mainline of Mid-America' and Passenger trains. [paraphrased] "...There are towns, that in the afternoons and evenings when the passenger train goes through, it is moving so fast that the hammer on the gong, on the crossing will only get to half-cocked, before the train is gone.." 

Some were known to use the description of a train passing through so fast that it sucked the trash out of the ditches on 'both' sides of the railroad...Whistling

 

 


 

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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, September 30, 2016 9:52 PM

Decertifiable speeding is exceeding the authorized speed by 1/2 the authorized maximum or 10 mph, whichever is less.  For 10 mph, 15 mph would be decertifiable.  For 30 mph, 40 mph would be decertifiable.

That's what the FRA requires.  Individual railroads can have penalties that are more harsh than what's required.  My union has put out a notice on the bulletin board that we should all run about 5 mph under than authorized speed.  That's in case the speedometer isn't accurate.  We won't be decertified until 10 mph over, but being over can start the disciplinary process.  Especially the closer you are to 10 over.    

I had a locomotive recently that had 3 different speed indicators.  One was the axle driven main speedometer.  The second was a PTC/GPS indicator.  The third was in the engine's data computer, the speed is not calculated using the same system as the main speedometer.  All 3 stated a different speed at any given time, 1 mph apart.  If the main one said 39, the PTC indicator said 40 and the data indicator said 41.  With no measured mile to time the mile posts.

Jeff

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Posted by SALfan on Friday, September 30, 2016 10:57 PM

samfp1943

 

 
diningcar

There are stories from the steam engine days (Casey Jones for example) but one I heard from my former employer goes like this:

Engineer 'Hank' was known to make up time when trains were late and he was actually put on trains for that purpose. His fromer Superintendent was now the AGM and on this day his business car was on the rear of a crack passenger train that was running late, and with 'Hank' at the throtle. When the train arrived at the crew change station the AGM was standing on the platform as 'Hank' walked by. The AGM said " 'Hank' my speedometer in the car indicated you were ten MPH over the speed allowed between MP 685 and MP 692. 'Hanks' response was  "I never saw you go around me" as he continued walking to sign out. 

 

 

 

   One of the stories about passenger railroading in Mississippi, that was occasional brought up in conversations, was told about small towns in Mississippi on the "Mainline of Mid-America' and Passenger trains. [paraphrased] "...There are towns, that in the afternoons and evenings when the passenger train goes through, it is moving so fast that the hammer on the gong, on the crossing will only get to half-cocked, before the train is gone.." 

Some were known to use the description of a train passing through so fast that it sucked the trash out of the ditches on 'both' sides of the railroad...Whistling

 

Someone once told me the passenger train speed limit on the ACL thru Walthourville, GA (south of Savannah) was 92 miles an hour in the early 1960's.  That's moving pretty well, in my book.

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Saturday, October 1, 2016 9:55 AM

I have heard of various local law enforcement (police, sheriff, etc.) attempting to issue speeding tickets to Engineers for exceeding local speed limit laws that city/town councils have attempted to set for Railroads, but I guess it produces more expense for the community trying to enforce such than they could possibly make back in fines and it didn't help RR/community relations, nor did it result in the reduction of the speed of trains through the community.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, October 1, 2016 11:40 AM

Semper Vaporo
I have heard of various local law enforcement (police, sheriff, etc.) attempting to issue speeding tickets to Engineers for exceeding local speed limit laws that city/town councils have attempted to set for Railroads, but I guess it produces more expense for the community trying to enforce such than they could possibly make back in fines and it didn't help RR/community relations, nor did it result in the reduction of the speed of trains through the community.

Have always laughed at communities that set speed limits through their berg and then complain about the length of time moving trains block their crossings.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by mudchicken on Saturday, October 1, 2016 11:47 AM

(1) Their(local gov't) authority ends at the R/W line.

(2) Interfere w/ intra or interstate commerce and you deal with the state or the feds.

(3)Local (and sometimes state, like CO) expertise is non extant.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by ericsp on Sunday, October 2, 2016 2:09 AM

What are the regulations when the tracks are in the middle of a road?

"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, October 3, 2016 7:42 AM

I'm reasonably certain that other roads do it in a similar manner, South Shore does have a low speed limit posted for the part of the line that runs on 10th and 11th Streets in Michigan City.  The trains do have to abide by the traffic lights at intersections.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, October 4, 2016 1:14 PM

Depends on where you are, track condition, geometry and the local state railroad commission's decree. AFAIK there is no federal regulation on the issue (49CFR213 only goes so far)...

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, October 4, 2016 1:23 PM

ericsp
What are the regulations when the tracks are in the middle of a road?

Operations in these kinds of situations would be spelled out in Employee Timetable Special Instructions.  Each will be tailored to the specific characteristics of the location.  No blanket statements can be made.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by traisessive1 on Tuesday, October 4, 2016 11:42 PM

jeffhergert

All 3 stated a different speed at any given time, 1 mph apart.  If the main one said 39, the PTC indicator said 40 and the data indicator said 41.  With no measured mile to time the mile posts.

 

Report it to the diesel doctor and use your watch to find the accurate speed using the normal mile posts. 

You're covered. All you can do. 

10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ... 

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Posted by cefinkjr on Tuesday, October 11, 2016 10:08 AM

BaltACD
 
Semper Vaporo
I have heard of various local law enforcement (police, sheriff, etc.) attempting to issue speeding tickets to Engineers for exceeding local speed limit laws that city/town councils have attempted to set for Railroads, but I guess it produces more expense for the community trying to enforce such than they could possibly make back in fines and it didn't help RR/community relations, nor did it result in the reduction of the speed of trains through the community.

 

Have always laughed at communities that set speed limits through their berg and then complain about the length of time moving trains block their crossings.

 

There was a story told on the old NYC of a town in northern Indiana that set a ridiculously low speed limit through their town.  At the same time, they had ordnances that said a train could not block any of the numerous crossings for more than 10 minutes without moving.

The railroad's completely unofficial response was to strictly obey both ordnances.  Of course, that made the double-track main through the center of town a pretty serious bottleneck; so much that there was nearly always at least one train, and usually two, creeping through town and blocking all of the crossings.

The speed ordnance, at least, was quickly repealed. 

Chuck
Allen, TX

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, October 11, 2016 10:24 AM

cefinkjr

 

 
BaltACD
 
Semper Vaporo
I have heard of various local law enforcement (police, sheriff, etc.) attempting to issue speeding tickets to Engineers for exceeding local speed limit laws that city/town councils have attempted to set for Railroads, but I guess it produces more expense for the community trying to enforce such than they could possibly make back in fines and it didn't help RR/community relations, nor did it result in the reduction of the speed of trains through the community.

 

Have always laughed at communities that set speed limits through their berg and then complain about the length of time moving trains block their crossings.

 

 

 

There was a story told on the old NYC of a town in northern Indiana that set a ridiculously low speed limit through their town.  At the same time, they had ordnances that said a train could not block any of the numerous crossings for more than 10 minutes without moving.

The railroad's completely unofficial response was to strictly obey both ordnances.  Of course, that made the double-track main through the center of town a pretty serious bottleneck; so much that there was nearly always at least one train, and usually two, creeping through town and blocking all of the crossings.

The speed ordnance, at least, was quickly repealed. 

 

Speed guns (ordnance)? Oh, you meant ordinance, didn't you?Smile

Johnny

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Posted by SSW9389 on Tuesday, October 11, 2016 10:35 AM

 

One day in the late 1960s an engineer was speeding on Cotton Belt's Baldwin Branch out to the Pine Bluff Arsenal. A young Trainmaster was out on the branch with the Assistant Roadmaster. The speed limit on that line was 15 or 20 mile an hour.  The Trainmaster, otherwise known as the "Ball of Fire"  was checking the speed of the local train with a radar gun and found that it was speeding.  The local officer with BLF&E  was a part of the investigation that followed. The union officer knew to fact check the location cited in the speeding report.  The track chart for the Baldwin Branch was consulted and the milepost on the report was not correct for the crossing cited. The union official then checked with the Dispatcher's Office to find out which engine was assigned to the branch local that day. It was found that the engine assigned number did not match the engine cited in the report.  Further query was made into whether the Trainmaster was qualified to operate the radar gun used to check the speeding switcher.  On the day of the investigation it was noted that the crossing cited didn't match company records of the location, the engine number didn't match dispatcher records. And that it appeared that said Trainmaster didn't know where he was when he observed the alleged speeding switch engine.  The Trainmaster was heard to say that he would be ready for the union official at the next investigation. 

 

COTTON BELT: Runs like a Blue Streak!
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Posted by CatFoodFlambe on Wednesday, October 12, 2016 9:48 PM

mudchicken

(1) Their(local gov't) authority ends at the R/W line.

(2) Interfere w/ intra or interstate commerce and you deal with the state or the feds.

(3)Local (and sometimes state, like CO) expertise is non extant.

 

Muddy - does, however, a municipality have to authority to regulate train speed over a public grade crossing?   Or will most railroads comply with a (reasonable) restriction just for sake of keeping the peace?

As a one-time line-haul supervisor for a LTL trucking company, we often would honor reasonable requests to use an alternate routing to and from our terminals just to stay on the good side of local officials (i.e.; the "Don't poke the bear" theory of management).   A lot of them involved avoiding school zones on weekdays, or circling a town on the "wide road" bypass to avoid downtowns. 

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Posted by zugmann on Thursday, October 13, 2016 7:34 AM

traisessive1
Report it to the diesel doctor and use your watch to find the accurate speed using the normal mile posts.

Use the 3000' mile or the 6500' mile?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by diningcar on Thursday, October 13, 2016 7:59 AM

A University city had issues with trains "speeding" through the campus vicinity and placing the (trespassing) students in danger as they crossed the tracks . They had indicated that they wanted a speed restriction through their city of 25 MPH. The RR had always tried to work with that city, and the University. But the locals did neither remember or appreciate those passed actions and became very strident in their communications, especially the verbal ones in private meetings. They were informed of unintended consequences but finally agreed to a trial period that was volunteered by the RR of 25 MPH between 3:00 and 6:00 PM.

The RR had told them that this was the time when its traffic was busiest but they did not wish to listen. The result was long freight trains, on their usual schedule, began blocking the city's major streets and causing two or three block long backups of vehicles stopped by closed gates. This trial period lasted about two weeks and the city relented because of these consequences. The city and the University began educating the students about trespassing and created two overhead pedestrian crossings that were approved by the RR 

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, October 13, 2016 8:00 AM

zugmann

 

 
traisessive1
Report it to the diesel doctor and use your watch to find the accurate speed using the normal mile posts.

 

Use the 3000' mile or the 6500' mile?

 

How about timing between D&RGW mp 393 and mp 395 (0.7 miles)?

Johnny

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Posted by diningcar on Thursday, October 13, 2016 8:21 AM

Yes there are "equasion" MP's but the next one's will be OK

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, October 13, 2016 8:24 AM

zugmann
traisessive1

Use the 3000' mile or the 6500' mile?

Use the mile that is specifically designated in the employee timetable.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by zugmann on Thursday, October 13, 2016 8:33 AM

BaltACD
Use the mile that is specifically designated in the employee timetable.

Unfortunately that's either the one you bypass, or it's the one where you're on the approach and in heavy dynamic dragging your speed down.

 

The Leader speed is usually accurate if you are picking up enough satellites. But always go with the slowest speed.  Esp. if it's the LSL display - that's pretty important to obey.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, October 13, 2016 8:47 AM

zugmann

 

 
BaltACD
Use the mile that is specifically designated in the employee timetable.

 

Unfortunately that's either the one you bypass, or it's the one where you're on the approach and in heavy dynamic dragging your speed down.

 

The Leader speed is usually accurate if you are picking up enough satellites. But always go with the slowest speed.  Esp. if it's the LSL display - that's pretty important to obey.

 

Our ETT doesn't desginate any "measured" mile.  The one (and only one) we have on all the territories I can work is designated by signage.  It isn't on the territory I currently work.

I am fortunate to have some that are fairly close to an actual mile.  However, like Zug said, it isn't always possible to maintain an exact speed through them.

Zug, there's a screen on the LEADER menu (at least on ours) where it gives fuel usage per mile up to your current location.  Among that data is footage between the mile posts.  I've used it for future reference to find which miles are closest for timing purposes.

Jeff

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Posted by zugmann on Thursday, October 13, 2016 8:52 AM

jeffhergert
Zug, there's a screen on the LEADER menu (at least on ours) where it gives fuel usage per mile up to your current location. Among that data is footage between the mile posts. I've used it for future reference to find which miles are closest for timing purposes.

Most of the engines I run now don't have LEADER (thank god).  Next time I get stuck with road power for a local (what fun), I'll have to dig around.  I don't know if ours has that option.  I don't recall it but maybe I missed it.  I guess you could start the foot counter on the leader and keep a steady speed as well.  Meh. I usually just keep it a few clicks below.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, October 13, 2016 9:03 AM

It's in a sub-menu of one of the menu options.  I'm not sure which one off hand.  Isn't it wonderful to have so much information available that you'll never use.

jeff

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