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-ChrisWest Chicago, ILChristopher May Fine Art Photography"In wisdom gathered over time I have found that every experience is a form of exploration." ~Ansel Adams
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
QUOTE: Originally posted by Dunkirkeriestation But if the pumped power is from low cost solar power you coul release it at any time. They do this at Niagara Falls
QUOTE: Originally posted by jchnhtfd Then the solar panel problem is also immense. If we suppose you are in the desert southwest, you can figure -- very very roughly -- about 10 kw hours per square metre per day from your facility. So to replace a nice little 500 megawatt power plant (12,000,000 kw hours per day) you need about 1,000,000 square metres. Which is about half a square mile of collector. And a 500 mw plant is a small plant...
QUOTE: Originally posted by Leon Silverman The purpose of pumped storage facilities is to maintain loading on other power plants. Unlike the relativel small prime movers used in surface transportation (cars, trains and ships), multimegawatt power plants cannot "follow the load". They can increase or decrease their output by only a couple megawatts and hour. Consequently, they have to run at essentially the same full power output all the time. The excess generating capacity is used to fill up the pumped storage reservoir at night. During the day, when these multimegawatt plants' output is insuffficient to provide all the power needs of the grid, the pumped storage water is allowed to flow back through the pumping turbines to provide the extra peaking power needed to meet the requirements of grid system. To put it in railroad terms, suppose the diesels' dynamic brakes charged up a large bank of batteries housed in a trailing slug instead of disapating the power as heat . That slug could then be used as an additional booster to maintain the train's speed up the next grade without the expenditure of additional fuel. This is the principal of the hybrid drive that is increasingly being used in automobiles. Solar cells shut down at night. Their power has to used immediately in order to make them economical. It does not pay to store their power, particularly since no conversion process (light to electricity, storage or electricity, regeneration of electricity, transmission of that power, is 100% efficient.
QUOTE: Originally posted by kevarc Chris, at night we do pump water "uphill" back into the lakes at night, again cheaper power. They do this a lot in the west. Dunkirk - this is the way it is - Power is a lot more expensive during the day, why would you use the expensive power to pump watrer to use at night. That is just plain dumb. You put it into the grid. Then you use cheap off-peak power to pump water uphill. That is they way it is done. Look at the price chart in the link I put in my earlier post. Solar power is not cheap, it is one the the most expensive of the renewable power sources and higher than any of teh normal power sources.
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