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Amtrak Derailment @ Kensington
Amtrak Derailment @ Kensington
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Anonymous
Member since
April 2003
305,205 posts
Amtrak Derailment @ Kensington
Posted by
Anonymous
on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:27 PM
Since it appeared that there was a rail kink that caused by high heat, how can high heat in Maryland be compared to the rails in the desert Southwest?
When I travel on Interstate 8 between Yuma and Gila Bend, AZ, and on I-10 between Casa Grande and Tucson, AZ, the railroad parallels the highway. In the summer, the temperatures are hotter there than Maryland. Most of the time it can get as high as 115-120 degrees in the low desert. Sometimes, it can go higher than that.
I realize that the rails in the desert southwest are or maybe the same as everywhere else, but are they tied down differently than the rails in Maryland, especially where CSX operates the rails?
I don't travel those highways in the summer, though. Only in the winter.
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mudchicken
Member since
December 2001
From: Denver / La Junta
10,820 posts
Posted by
mudchicken
on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 7:13 PM
IF you do not understand the concept of laying rail (CWR) at "target temperature" in a given region, this will not make sense-but:
Railroads attempt to lay rail at a given temperature that will allow the rail to normally handle stresses (expansion/contraction) over a normally expected temperature range for a given region. This allows the tremendous pressures to be handled by the roadbed, track, ties or clips, spikes, tie plates, ballast, etc. in a balanced/manageable way. Too hot, the rail kinks (buckles); too cold, that same rail pulls apart (breaks). The target temperature is the temperature of the rail, NOT the ambient air temperature. The rail is usually much warmer than the outside air temperature. On the old Santa Fe, your "target temperature" for laying rail was 95-120 degrees, dependent on location. You often saw track gangs heating up 1440 Ft. strings of rail with massive propane heaters to get rail to the right temperature. If you don't get rail to the right temperature, your railroad's roadmaster and track forces are out there for months trying to "destress" that improperly laid rail (Time and money that costs a railroad dearly) and get the rail to behave normally. The FRA and the railroads have emphasized the importance of managing and destressing CWR for the last 10-15 years. I would imagine that the target temperature for the rail at Kensington was somewhere between 80 and 95 degrees (CSX has that info published internally somewhere). The rail temperature on the day of the derailment was probably well into the three digit range (and that area was suffering a record heat wave)....The rail may well have been laid at the proper temperature and other factors may have come into play - do NOT expect to see an immediate and definitive answer on the cause of the derailment. The sun kink was the result of some other risk factor in the mix, i.e. "what allowed the rail to kink and what was the trigger that set it off?.....Look for the FRA and the NTSB to be looking at other maintenance activities such as spot surfacing, defective rail replacement, lack of shoulder ballast, undercutting, recent tie replacement and so on.
It doesn't matter if the ties are concrete or wood, if the fastenings are spikes, pandrol clips or E-clips, etc, ...Given the right conditions, any track can buckle or somehow fail.
With the clueless boobs in the media reporting on this to an equally clueless general public, the answer may never be clearly reported. Politicians will clamor for some legislative fix-all for the FRA/NTSB to enforce while what is currently on the books is more than sufficient and a re-emphasizing of certain rules/ principals is all that is really needed. Too bad the accident happened, the timing is lousy for Amtrak and CSX.
Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Anonymous
Member since
April 2003
305,205 posts
Posted by
Anonymous
on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 9:44 PM
I would like to add to the previous well written post that when trains go over the rail, it heats up a bit more. When it is already quite hot, and a section of track gets heavy traffic, it makes the temperature climb even more. Also, the proximity of curves in the track plays a role as well. I wi***he press could do a propper job on this story. It would help avoid unnecessary legislation. - Ed
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RudyRockvilleMD
Member since
September 2001
From: US
1,015 posts
Posted by
RudyRockvilleMD
on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:14 PM
The location of that accident was in Kensington, MD which is 11 miles northwest of Washington, DC. The CSX track in the vicinity of Kensington is alternately in the sun and in the shade. When the track is in the shade it s temperature should be close to the air temperature, but when it is in the sun then the radiant energy of the sun could heat it to higher temperatures. According to a report in the Washington Post by Don Phillips, who is very knowledgeable about railroad matters, the track temperature in the vicinity of the accident was 118 F while the air temperature was 97 F. I don't know what effect that alternate heating and cooling of the rails might have had.
The Federal Railroad Administration has sponsored research into the problem of heat buckling of rails, and the results of that research has led to fewer incidents where rail buckling has occurred.
The scenario of that derailment was very close to the Auto Train derailment in Florida last April except that there were no fatalities, and as of tonight [July 31] only 13 people are still in hospitals. There was a fire station near the scene, but rescue units were nearby, they arrived quickly, and removed all passengers from the train within an hour and a half. Further, two Kaiser Permanente Medical Centers, each within two blocks of the derailment, sent doctors and nurses to the site, and they were able to stabilize the injured there which also might have reduced the severity of many of the injuries.
The NTSB will investigate this derailment, and they are also investigating the Auto Train derailment in Florida. In both cases some track work had been done a few days earlier, and in both cases a freight train passed over the same track 40 minutes earlier without any problem.
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RudyRockvilleMD
Member since
September 2001
From: US
1,015 posts
Posted by
RudyRockvilleMD
on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:20 PM
There is a curve to the west of the derailment site, but the CSX Metropolitan Sub isn't that busy these days. I don't know whether the heavy freight train, which passed 40 minutes earlier, might have contributed to the buckling
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Anonymous
Member since
April 2003
305,205 posts
Posted by
Anonymous
on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 11:48 PM
What a tremendous answer...the best I've ever seen on any of these posts. Thank you for your insightful explanantion. As for the clueless media, they'll still talk about the "12 trains that tumbled off the tracks" (plural???). Talk about the dumbing of America. (sigh) Don Corbin
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Anonymous
Member since
April 2003
305,205 posts
Posted by
Anonymous
on Thursday, August 1, 2002 9:13 AM
I have to say that this is one of the most informative posts I've seen on this site-great job "mud chicken."
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Anonymous
Member since
April 2003
305,205 posts
Posted by
Anonymous
on Thursday, August 1, 2002 9:31 AM
Thank you all very much for your replies. It was very much appreciated.
Sincerely,
William
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Anonymous
Member since
April 2003
305,205 posts
Posted by
Anonymous
on Thursday, August 1, 2002 10:16 AM
I also have to say that this response is one of the most thorough that i've seen here; not being a rr employeee but loving trains I wish i could find see more such explanations of the inner workings of railroads' operations; good luck, best wishes, and thanks for educating us!
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Anonymous
Member since
April 2003
305,205 posts
Posted by
Anonymous
on Thursday, August 1, 2002 10:33 AM
This may be going against the grain, but I think the media has done a good job of reporting this. Given, they haven't taken the time to explain what exactly makes a heat kink form, but the rest of the reporting I have seen (mostly AP reports here in the Des Moines Register) has been balanced. But I am still waiting for the first idiot Amtrak critic to step up and say these words: "This is Amtrak's fault because they cannot keep their rails in proper working order." Whoever ends up saying those words will have outed themselves for the ignorant bandwagoner that they are.
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Anonymous
Member since
April 2003
305,205 posts
Posted by
Anonymous
on Thursday, August 1, 2002 2:39 PM
Regarding the site of the Amtrak derailment at Kensington, "the first idiot Amtrak critic" might be apt to say that it is Amtrak's fault because that person does not know it is not Amtrak's responsibility to maintain the rails in that area. Well, that certain person would be uneducated in such matters. As the rails belong to CSX, then CSX would be responsible for maintaining the rails.
Of course, that also goes for any railroad company, like BNSF, in which they have to maintain the railroad in such places like from San Diego to Los Angeles.
Since Amtrak owns the rails for their NE Corridor runs, certainly they have the responisibility to maintain the rails there.
I like to see Amtrak build another line between San Diego and Los Angeles, but it could be impossible to construct them between San Diego and Oceanside as there is very little room to add more rails.
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RudyRockvilleMD
Member since
September 2001
From: US
1,015 posts
Posted by
RudyRockvilleMD
on Thursday, August 1, 2002 10:03 PM
There is one exception to your assessment of the media's reporting on the derailment of the Capitol Limited. Our local newspaper, the Montgomery Journal, reported the conductor saw the buckled rails ,ad pulled the emergency brake. The reporting in the Washington Post was accurate, thanks to the fact that Don Phillips is a railfan so he is knowledgeable about railroading.
This derailment is certainly not Amtrak's fault, but no fault can be assessed until the NTSB finishes its investigation, and issues its report which could take up to 18 months. But, as an aftermath of this derailment a sleeper, the diner, the lounge car, and one coach were totaled so Amtrak had to cancel Wednesday's westbound Cardinal and use its low level cars for Wednesday's westbound Capitol Limited. In a sense this derailment does reflect adversely on Amtrak's past top management in that they did not repair the cars which were damaged in earlier wrecks; so they got into a bind for Superliner cars for their long distance trains.
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Anonymous
Member since
April 2003
305,205 posts
Posted by
Anonymous
on Saturday, August 3, 2002 4:52 PM
If anyone wants to know more about the inside workings of railroads, I recommend a book by John Armstrong called, The Railroad, What it is and What it Does.
That is where I learned how continuous welded rail is installed. - Ed
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RudyRockvilleMD
Member since
September 2001
From: US
1,015 posts
Posted by
RudyRockvilleMD
on Sunday, August 4, 2002 9:31 PM
Here is an update on the derailment of the Capitol Limited in Kensington, MD
100 people were taken to the hospitals after the derailment; most were treated and released, but as of Friday, August 2 six people remained hospitalized.
On Tuesday, July 30, CSX announced it was extending its 'hot day" freight train speed restrictions to passenger trains; this policy went into effect on July 31, which delayed MARC's and VRE's commuter trains. According to news reports, VRE's Chief Operating Officer didn't think such restrictions were necessary.
The Metropolitan Sub [Washington, DC - Brunswick, MD] was reopened on the afternoon of July 31, but CSX track inspectors found two more heat kinks between Germantown and Boyds, but these were fixed by that afternoon. However, one of the tracks on that line was pulled out of service for inspection the next day.
On August 1 CSX closed one track on their Metropolitan Sub for inspection. This caused MARC to cancel its first Washington to Brunswick train of the day [P 871]; that train is deadheaded back to Washington after discharging its passengers in Brunswick because its equipment is needed to protect other runs. The concern was that train would not return to Washington to protect its next run with a sizeable part of the line reduced to single track. With one track out of service and the speed restrictions commuter trains on MARC's Brusnwick Line were delayed, but to add insult to injury the CSX pulled the dispatcher handling that line away for a routine drug and alcohol test with trains backed up.
To add further insult to injury the Sunday, August 4, Washington Post carried an advertisement from a law firm soliciting victims of that derailment.
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Anonymous
Member since
April 2003
305,205 posts
Posted by
Anonymous
on Saturday, August 31, 2002 9:28 PM
Rudy (or any),
By any chance, any specific car numbers totaled in Kensington wreck? You mentioned sleeper, diner, lounge & coach. I was a passenger in first sleeper, first car that tipped all the way over. Just curious if this was a totaled car.
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RudyRockvilleMD
Member since
September 2001
From: US
1,015 posts
Posted by
RudyRockvilleMD
on Sunday, September 1, 2002 8:46 PM
Joe:
I am sorry to hear you were directly involved in the derailment; I hope you are well on the way to recovery.
To answer your question, I didn't get the numbers of any of the cars that were involved in that derailment. The Montgomery County Police had the area blocked off; it was all the nearby residents could do to walk to their houses until late the next afternnon.
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Anonymous
Member since
April 2003
305,205 posts
Posted by
Anonymous
on Tuesday, September 3, 2002 8:04 PM
Rudy,
Thanks for the info; I checked a picture that I had taken at the site and found the number of the car that I was in. Later in the week, I saw a clip on the news of what looked to be the same car from the damage being re-railed and was wondering if that was one of the totalled. Also, wondering what extent constitutes 'totalled' (i.e. extensive frame/truck damage, etc.). I have posted the picture at
http://www.joe.fitzsimons.com/train_3.jpg
if you are interested. Thank you for your concern; I consider myself extremely lucky to only sustain minor brusies, others around me did not fare so well but will recover. I am convinced that we would have not all been so lucky had a similar event occured in any other major form of transportation.
-Joe
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