Yep, same here. The rest of the site seems OK. Just the forums are slow.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Tried multiple times on 5/5 - all without success 504's and other time out issues.
Surprised to get this far just after midnight 5/6
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Do not believe it just got thru almost instantenously. Friday evening 23:35
Daytime seems to be the most problematic time to connect with the FORUMS;In my recent experiences. '504' Timing OUT ius really quick, allowng almost no time to reply, or even edit a response.
Seems oinly the abulity to be able to read, without any response, is the new oirder of business???? This new ' technology' is really, no where near as user friendly..
What happened is that the gateway or computer that the internet uses to access the trains.com general discussion ip address was down. It could have been for any number of reasons which I will not go into. Below is the results of a trace route. As you can see ip address one which is 192.168.4.1 is the gateway address. It is up now, but that was where the problem was.
traceroute to cs.trains.com (3.220.122.119), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets 1 _gateway (192.168.4.1) 0.525 ms 0.650 ms 0.833 ms 2 100.64.112.2 (100.64.112.2) 3.775 ms 3.487 ms 3.589 ms 3 10.70.0.226 (10.70.0.226) 3.823 ms 3.795 ms 4.058 ms 4 10.70.0.2 (10.70.0.2) 3.466 ms 4.198 ms 3.749 ms 5 10.70.0.10 (10.70.0.10) 4.957 ms 4.561 ms 4.778 ms 6 10.25.0.97 (10.25.0.97) 5.880 ms 4.238 ms 3.953 ms 7 10.25.0.113 (10.25.0.113) 4.763 ms 6.143 ms 6.194 ms 8 204.111.0.118 (204.111.0.118) 5.672 ms 99.83.90.146 (99.83.90.146) 11.102 ms 204.111.0.118 (204.111.0.118) 6.557 ms
This is the first time that I have gotten all the way to the forums in about 4 days. I believe the end is near...
I just figured the server admin tasked with sorting this mess out, and the only one who knew how to reset the hamster wheel, moved on.
Dear trains. "IF" This problem or anything else occurs again can you set up a way for us to immediately notify you that there is a problem? Once you are aware of a problem is it possible to post on News wire what you are doing to mitigate the problem as News Wire was never down. Of course that does make the problem much more transparrent to the world.
Backshop This is the first time that I have gotten all the way to the forums in about 4 days. I believe the end is near...
Yes, I managed to get back in last night around 10:00 PM after hitting "walls" all week long. And I only tried just for the hell of it, a "Just maybe..." thing.
I just hope if they're going to shut the various Forums down (It's their right after all) they give us enough warning so we can make our goodbyes. I've been on the various Forums for 14 years, I'd hate to just drop out of sight like so many others have.
This problem has been happening more than once this year. Seems likely that maintenance is not a priority now that the publications are being sold.
I have also been getting messages that the server can't be reached, almost instantly when making a request, to be followed several seconds later with the screen I had requested.
OWTX:
You are correct. The admin had to completly shutdown and restarted the server that serves the trains forum. As I displayed earlier the gateway server was down. It could have been hardware failure, in which case I wonder why they did not have redundency in case the main server went down. It also could have been a hack, which is very easy to do, since most companies still use Microsoft operating systems and requires more knowledge on the part of the admin to fix the problem and restart the system, or any number of other causes.
I access the forum through the main 'forums' page (because it lets me select Trains, MR, and Classic Trains with one button click). At no time during the outage did this page fail to load. At no time did I observe ads failing to load as forum pages tried to render. From time to time 'the holes in the Swiss cheese would align' and I might get a forum to momentarily open, or even a thread page to open... but just as when moderators have deleted or moved a post, none of the actual thread postings or text-entry window would appear -- you got only the header and the information down at the bottom, with nothing in between. This would only last a refresh or two before abending to the familiar white screen with 504 notice. Evidently there were a couple of people who actually did get something to post, but in one such case their post disappeared when the site originally came back up and only reappeared hours and hours later...
I think this is part of changing the digital permissions on the 'money side' trains.com over to Firecrown, and only incidentally (albeit painfully) involves the forum content. I am now seeing frequent very slow throughput (where it may take 30 seconds or more for letters I type to actually appear in the post window) and involuntary page refreshes (losing all the entered text!) every couple of minutes, which makes it tedious to endure.
To be a bit clearer, I recall that Steve Otte said it was the plethora of ads that involved 'non-Kalmbach activity' -- this having nothing to do with the forum server(s) being down or the 504 issue.
And the greater part of the support 'problem' was with the lost functionality of some of the forum code, not the ability to access forums at all.
EuclidIn any case, apparently the moderator’s response that the problem it is caused by malware; and can be fixed with anti-malware, ad blocking software that we can install on our computers; is directed to the commonly voiced complaint about pop-up ads. This leads me to wonder if Kalmbach is even aware of this “504 Gateway Time-out” problem, or maybe has ever been aware of it.
I had to wonder if it was "buck-passing" on Kalmbach's part. "It's not US, it's YOU!" The thing is I NEVER have problems like this on any other 'site I go to, except once when one 'site was undergoing a website change and that lasted only 24 hours.
Overmod To be a bit clearer, I recall that Steve Otte said it was the plethora of ads that involved 'non-Kalmbach activity' -- this having nothing to do with the forum server(s) being down or the 504 issue. And the greater part of the support 'problem' was with the lost functionality of some of the forum code, not the ability to access forums at all.
To: Overmod, and other posters; Thanks for the updates....
For those of us who are NOT really computer literate(?); It has really been a pain in the 'Touckas;' since the Klambake sold out to the New guys....
I personally, have enjoyed their Forums for a couple of decades+....The last month or so, has really been a female puppy dog..... Hopefully, we are now on the cusp of getting thingsd straight.
Well I am sure the problem has more than one dimension. The only dimension I have seen for the last two years is the inablility to access the forum. And I know that Steve Otte has commented on several aspects of the problem including those related to the recent chages in the Trains dot com site.
But in one specific post, probably about January, he said the problem was in our user computers being infected with malware, and had nothing to do with Kalmbach. That was all he said in that post.
I am not trying to blame anybody, but I am not convinced that anyone has diagnosed the 504 problem. If so, it may have nothing to do with other types of malfunction.
OvermodTo be a bit clearer, I recall that Steve Otte said it was the plethora of ads that involved 'non-Kalmbach activity' -- this having nothing to do with the forum server(s) being down or the 504 issue. And the greater part of the support 'problem' was with the lost functionality of some of the forum code, not the ability to access forums at all.
If Otte was to be believed then these actions would afflict virtually ALL activites on the web. It only affects Kalmbach sites.
Since the site has returned to life - I have been getting 'This Site can't be Reached' when making the initial request to the site - then several seconds later the page I requested will display.
Euclid Overmod To be a bit clearer, I recall that Steve Otte said it was the plethora of ads that involved 'non-Kalmbach activity' -- this having nothing to do with the forum server(s) being down or the 504 issue. And the greater part of the support 'problem' was with the lost functionality of some of the forum code, not the ability to access forums at all. Well I am sure the problem has more than one dimension. The only dimension I have seen for the last two years is the inablility to access the forum. And I know that Steve Otte has commented on several aspects of the problem including those related to the recent chages in the Trains dot com site. But in one specific post, probably about January, he said the problem was in our user computers being infected with malware, and had nothing to do with Kalmbach. That was all he said in that post. I am not trying to blame anybody, but I am not convinced that anyone has diagnosed the 504 problem. If so, it may have nothing to do with other types of malfunction.
Well, pretty clearly "But in one specific post, probably about January, he said the problem was in our user computers being infected with malware, and had nothing to do with Kalmbach" was not the whole story at that time. hange in ownership often means a clean sweep of the old The recent off and on aspect of the forum is likely the prelude to curtailing their existence.
BaltACDIf Otte was to be believed then these actions would afflict virtually ALL activites on the web. It only affects Kalmbach sites.
I think Steve Otte was saying that the Ad Distributor is to be blamed for their content impacting the User Experience. If my interpretation is correct then this rings true to me as Facebook has the same problem with whomever their ad distributor is in the upper right corner of the FB page because it is a recurring problem with FB that a malware ad pops up that emulates a user getting a FB message or response to a FB post.............click on it and they can hack your FB account. Not easy to track that nonsense down via FB staff because they do not own the content in the web page region where the mischef occurs. I suspect the same is true of the Kalmback webpage in the area of problematic content ads.
Do they ban the ad distributor and lose a chunk of revenue or do they put up with it and try to fix the issue as it occurs?..........so that is the quandry I believe. So my take on this is it is the ad distributor they use and only some of the ads that are at issue, well initially anyway.........noticed the problem is slowly getting worse over time. So I also surmise a Forum Software update is part of the issue as well and it might not have been kept as current as it should have been. Just all gueses on my part as thankfully I am not on Kalmbach Staff. IT is not the only issue that was slipping in my view. Marketing has slipped. I remember when Kalmbach had a booth at most major Model Railroading shows or would show up at railfan events and make their attendence known. Not so much anymore. I suspect regular ebb and flow of business cycle for a company of this size and right now appears to be a definite ebb vs flow.
They could be doing a lot more with marketing without spending a lot of money. One area would be to market more to large public libraries. I have been in some of those and they never heard of TRAINS magazine..........it doesn't have to be the published magazine either. A lot of public libraries have gone digital with their periodical publications. Almost no TRAINS presence there that I have noticed in the DFW area and this is major metroplex in the United States. TRAINS gets it's revenue from adverstising not paid subscribers and yet the management of TRAINS does not seem to grasp that expanded distribution of content is better for them financially even if in part it is free. Also, they need to cut the price of their Calendars a little......some of which I can get a lot cheaper and delivered a lot faster via other sources. Someone is really not paying attention to these details.
Last and trying not to write a novel here. Geopolitical situation is not helping with website stability and cybersecurity. Private employers have switched to skills based hiring or some are still about to switch. Feds announced it is their plan to switch in 2025. Which means the college degree is starting to fade as a litmus test for white collar jobs (which I think is awesome), however it's also my view it is slightly more difficult to security screen someone without a college degree than with one. Which is one of the minor reasons it was used as a litmus test.
CMStPnP I think Steve Otte was saying that the Ad Distributor is to be blamed for their content impacting the User Experience.
I think Steve Otte was saying that the Ad Distributor is to be blamed for their content impacting the User Experience.
That was my take as well. FWIW, I've been able to set up Firefox to kill the ads by the simple expedient of enabling HTTPS only mode and setting enhanced tracking protection to "strict". Do wish the advertisers/websites take note that ads that don't cover content are less likely to be blocked. Ads can also be created to be worth reading/watching in their own right, Analog Devices "Rarely asked questions" was often a more interesting and useful read than the content in the magazines they appeared in.
3 days without a 504 error...
Erik_Mag... 3 days without a 504 error...
I can't make that statement.
There is a free ad blocker called Adblock Plus. It is an add on to Firefox and works very well. I have been using it for years. No ad of any kind on my system.
caldreamer There is a free ad blocker called Adblock Plus. It is an add on to Firefox and works very well. I have been using it for years. No ad of any kind on my system.
I have been using U Block on Chrome without issue.
I have a hosts file. Granted, it's a Windows thing, but I see virtually no ads and I don't have to worry about the ad blocker being malware itself. Most of the ads come from just a few sites.
I can't click on the "sponsored" ads if I search for a product, but the same site usually shows up further down the results list.
Use your favorite search engine for more info on hosts files.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Erik_MagThat was my take as well. FWIW, I've been able to set up Firefox to kill the ads by the simple expedient of enabling HTTPS only mode and setting enhanced tracking protection to "strict". Do wish the advertisers/websites take note that ads that don't cover content are less likely to be blocked. Ads can also be created to be worth reading/watching in their own right, Analog Devices "Rarely asked questions" was often a more interesting and useful read than the content in the magazines they appeared in. 3 days without a 504 error...
I still get them but I don't want to go through the hassle of changing web browers, though I might start using Edge to access the website instead of Chrome. For some reason everyone gives priority to testing Microsoft over other products. Ad distributors do not care what garbage they send out.....I noticed.
Microsoft operating systems security has more holes than swiss cheese. Every time I see a company get hacked or ransomwared I have a good laugh. Microsoft will never learn. Unix operating systems have a program built into the operating system itself called selinix which stands for security enhanced linux. It was first created by the NSA to help secure their systems. As far as I know, haveing retired in 2010 they are still using it. A version was eventually released into the public domain and is constantly being upgraded.
tree68 I have a hosts file. Granted, it's a Windows thing
I have a hosts file. Granted, it's a Windows thing
The "hosts file" is pretty much standard with any OS that uses DNS software that was derived from the orginal Berkeley (Go Bears!) software. This includes just about every variation of UNIX (Solaris, Linux, BSD's (MacOS userland is BSD), HP-UX, IRIX, AIX, QNX, etc) along with MS-Windows. The standard UNIX file is usually in the /etc directory i.e. "/etc/hosts", though MacOS stores it in the /private/etc directory, and thus "/private/etc/hosts".
The advantage of the "hosts" file is that it just has to be set up once on the computer (though may need updating), doesn't cost anything and should work with any browser.
Addendum: Got hit by the 504 error message when posting - post succeeded, error came while refreshing the webpage.
Dear trains got another hit Sunday evening about 23:00. These 504s are so tiring.
blue streak 1Dear trains got another hit Sunday evening about 23:00. These 504s are so tiring.
Ditto
I never go to the MR or CTT forums, just Trains and Classic Trains. With the magazines having subscription in the many tens of thousands, is it really worth it to keep the forums up and running when there's only about 25 regular posters and some of them don't subscribe?
Backshopis it really worth it to keep the forums up and running when there's only about 25 regular posters and some of them don't subscribe?
The 'fair' thing to do in that case would be to 'reimburse' the frequent posters or useful idiots with credit equal to the time and effort put in, applied toward their "$6.95 per month" in the month(s) that contributions are present. Now that we can expect more funding the Kalmbach 'experience' to be provided in the new organization, I suspect there would be members of staff who could make a fair evaluation and provide a sensible accounting of how that might be done.
There is the additional question whether merely reading threads on the forum, referred from all the Google and other bot 'indexing' (some of which is remarkably fast, indexing and providing links to posts that in some cases are only seconds old!) should be allowed to people who haven't signed in (or paid dues). There are plenty of examples where Google displays text that cannot be searched or read when actually trying to reference a given source...
I wonder how many of the primary posters plus non-posting regular readers would pay for the dubious privilege of entry to a dying forum?
It would work for me as part of the "unlimited" membership benefits.
Or it may be because of all the recent technical problems that are limiting participation. So I think that before trying to solve the operation problem with an entirely new system, it would be better to first find out what the current technical operational problem actually is. Why not have the problem professionally diagnosed and then get a price quote to fix it? Then fix the problem and maybe the participation will shoot back up to pre-2020 levels.
Participation is down due to a number of bannings and a number of deaths with few if any new participants coming on board.
The slipshod operation of the board's software has made it problematic for anyone to withstand the aggravations.
I suspect the decline in forum participation is something beyond just this one. I follow a couple of forum topics on railroad.net, and that forum site software works near flawlessly. 10 years ago there would be at least several posts a day and several new topics per week. Now it is common to go several days between posts, let alone new topics. People seemed to have moved on to other types of social media, I.e Facebook, Instagram, etc.
A once active firefighting forum hasn't had a post in months. People have passed, moved on, or whatever.
It's funny, in a way. The stuff we complain the most about on fora is the very same thing that generates activity - posts with some form of controversy.
I suspect, too, that at some point, most of the questions that could be asked have been asked (as has been pointed out when a newby does ask a question). With only six Class 1's now, regional interest lags, too.
BaltACD Participation is down due to a number of bannings and a number of deaths with few if any new participants coming on board. The slipshod operation of the board's software has made it problematic for anyone to withstand the aggravations.
tree68 With only six Class 1's now, regional interest lags, too.
With only six Class 1's now, regional interest lags, too.
Euclid But I don’t see why bannings and deaths would cause a trend of falling participation because deaths and bannings should be occurring at an average, consistent rate over time. So I would think their effect could also be consistent over time. What has not been consistent over time is the forum technical operation.
I think the random nature of deleting active threads because of some arbitrary sliding ruler of what's on topic hasn't helped this site over the years either. But let's be real: just about all forums are dead. So many other platforms out there.
I get it, moderating a forum is like herding cats with a garden hose, and some people can get a tad worked up, but the times where the heavy hand ruled hurt participation, IMO. I know I am less likely (read: not likely) to put much effort into creating actual original content anymore. You can keep the $6.95.
Even if you want to, who knows if it will post or you will get an error.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
zugmannthe heavy hand ruled hurt participation, IMO. I know I am less likely (read: not likely) to put much effort into creating actual original content anymore. You can keep the $6.95. Even if you want to, who knows if it will post or you will get an error.
The repeated removal of many posts and threads that had strong participation killed the interest of many. I don't know if that policy was out of ignorance of the effect or not, but the damage was done.
I think the content of Trains magazine itself may have something to do with it. It has turned into an industry-lite news article mag. WRP has more interesting magazines for railfans.
Backshop I think the content of Trains magazine itself may have something to do with it. It has turned into an industry-lite news article mag. WRP has more interesting magazines for railfans.
You're missing my point. I'm talking about articles with executives and when they pushed EHH. When's the last time that they had an actual "get out there and do it" article like JDI and DPM used to do? You can tell that their current product isn't working. Just compare the paperstock used on Trains vs that on TRP. They got sold because they hit the iceberg and needed a rescue ship.
Backshop You're missing my point. I'm talking about articles with executives and when they pushed EHH. When's the last time that they had an actual "get out there and do it" article like JDI and DPM used to do? You can tell that their current product isn't working. Just compare the paperstock used on Trains vs that on TRP. They got sold because they hit the iceberg and needed a rescue ship.
Flintlock76 Backshop You're missing my point. I'm talking about articles with executives and when they pushed EHH. When's the last time that they had an actual "get out there and do it" article like JDI and DPM used to do? You can tell that their current product isn't working. Just compare the paperstock used on Trains vs that on TRP. They got sold because they hit the iceberg and needed a rescue ship. My thoughts exactly. The last issue of "Trains" I saw had 54 or so pages. My most recent issue of "R&R" from WRP has 82 and with the weight of the paper stock it feels like 100.
My thoughts exactly. The last issue of "Trains" I saw had 54 or so pages. My most recent issue of "R&R" from WRP has 82 and with the weight of the paper stock it feels like 100.
A couple of other Posters on this Thred have mentioned it, as well:
The Moderation. In the past, some of the Moderators have veen 'envolved'...
They seemed to participate, in discussions, the were available, the would respond, and they seemed to hold ratonal positions, as to the discussions that took place; Diuscuyssions tghat were wide-ranging at times.
Most of the ' regulars' knew who the 'agitators' were; as well as, who the one's who could hold an 'adult conversation', without use of ' ad hominem' assaults.
In other words The Moderator's, MDERATED!! They werer good at their tasks, and were all pretty well liked, even after they dropped oiut of their offiucial roles of mederation...... Those were certainly different times, and those times are missed; as is seen by, the drop in FORUM participation......
samfp1943Those were certainly different times, and those times are missed; as is seen by, the drop in FORUM participation......
Very true!
Over on the model side, Steve Otte says the building that houses the servers has to be vacated by July 15th.
So unless Firecrown decides to start their own forums (I wouldn't bet on it), this place is almost dead on the law. Shall we meet in 5 years under the clock at Grand Central?
For more context:
Steve OtteThe Forums are currently hosted on a physical server that's housed in a building that has been sold to a third party and must be vacated by July 15. Firecrown's purchase of MR, Trains, and the other magazines did not include these servers. Firecrown does everything "in the cloud" using services like Google. So the three options are: 1) launch a new Forum with new software; 2) ditch the Forum altogether; or 3) copy the current buggy Forum to another server in the cloud somewhere. Now, I'm not privy to Firecrown's internal planning, but if I had to guess I would think those three options are arranged in decreasing order of probability.
In theory, the part of the forum 'framework' that can access, format, and serve past posts could be ported to an appropriate VM in the cloud. But this might not have the exquisite back-end opportunities that the Telligent platform offered. Might be different if there was still access to the original install or configuration package...
I think by sometime first week in July, we all exchange such e-mail addresses here as we might want to use to contact each other....
OvermodI think by sometime first week in July, we all exchange such e-mail addresses here as we might want to use to contact each other....
I'd shoot middle of June, myself. If it lasts that long...
You just volunteer yourself for head of the committee?
zugmannYou just volunteer yourself for head of the committee?
I could also host one or more servers if they sell them 'provisioned'. I have a five-room office I only use two rooms of, fully wired for Cat 6e and emergency power...
As much as some people hate Facebook - there are pages there for a variety of topics, including railroads. Come up with a suitable name, pick a couple of people to be mods/etc and let her rip.
tree68As much as some people hate Facebook - there are pages there for a variety of topics, including railroads. Come up with a suitable name, pick a couple of people to be mods/etc and let her rip.
My son is coaching a girls soccer team for his daughter and others. They have a Facebook location and they stream the games from a semi-fixed cell phone camera.
A lot of people use Facebook for a lot of activities.
This site may be going to another 504 incidents. Every slected posting is now giving a "HMM cannot reach site" for about 10 -14 seconds the finally connects.
Sad to Hear.
Thank You.
BaltACDMy son is coaching a girls soccer team for his daughter and others. They have a Facebook location and they stream the games from a semi-fixed cell phone camera. A lot of people use Facebook for a lot of activities.
On Facebook, there are many rail sites, such as Passenger Train Enthusiasts I and sites for specific railroads. Pictures are easy to post directly.
.
Definiterly 504 is back as of Sunday 0600. hope IT can fix. This post just by luck!
blue streak 1Definiterly 504 is back as of Sunday 0600. hope IT can fix. This post just by luck!
More frequently I am getting a 'this site can't be reached' followed several seconds later with what I requested.
Me too, really frustrating.
By about 10:30 Central Sun 19 May things have progressed to what BaltACD observed last week: consistent 14-second-plus delays between pages, with the occasional 'forgot to load the request' issue. Notably not getting any white-page 504s or 'this site is temporarily available' messages, but the annoying delay between buffered text being typed on an iPhone keyboard and actually showing up on screen is getting ridiculous.
Never had a problem before. But it's now happening to me. Took a couple of tries to get on the forum tonight.
Slow, but it's working...
Same here, took a while for the site to come up, but was working when it finally did. Had one experiene over the weekend where the site would come up, but timed out when seecting a thread. Got a lot of 504's over the weekend.
I get both the full screen 504 error and a pop-up window with buttons to "wait" or "exit the page."
It took over 15 minutes to scroll these three pages.
After 23 years, this is aggravating. This is the last railroad forum I actively participate, when it lets me log on, the two local ones have had server crashes that they never (so far) recovered from.
Got a 504 trying to write a comment on News wire this morning around 0800.
EDIT got a unhandled error trying to post this comment after 37 seconds.
Looks like a slow death of frustration and dysfunctionslity.
Paraphrasing the Monty Python "Dead Parrot" sketch,
"This Forum is no more.'
It's been hit-and-miss for me today. Sometimes I can get in and post, then for awhile it's not working.
wjstixIt's been hit-and-miss for me today. Sometimes I can get in and post, then for awhile it's not working.
Still getting 504s but got to this posting by a back door!!
Front door.
I got in the front door but after five tries.
Last night I gave up after ten tries with "no joy" as our communicators used to say in the Corps.
Better today but needs to be quickly available to attract and retain members,
In railroad parlance - I suspect the Server is operating as a Single Track railroad.
If the single track is Clear of competing 'trains' one gets in and the Server responds to the request slowly but without incident.
If another user is having their requests handled, you get the 'We can't respond to your request' message right away and then we get our own request handled - eventually.
If two or more users are making requests of the Server, after dithering for very long seconds - we get the 504 Error.
SO Irritating-- Todays the first time in a week that I have been able to see any Forum posts.
Without putting a stopwatch on forum operations today (05/23/24)
The forum seems to respond faster - on par with other forums I participate in.
Last night I was only able to get 504 errors.
This morning I spoke too soon -
This evening -
Either the site is offline or an unhandled error occurred. We apologize and have logged the error. Please try your request again or if you know who your site administrator is let them know too.
The name cs.trains.com resolves to telligent2-alb-288412204.us-east-1.elb.amazonaws.com [52.203.182.84].
I only got 8 hops on a tracert before the requests started timing out.
Take that for what you will...
Huh?
Bow getting this
cs.trains.com took too long to respond
Try:
Paul of Covington Huh?
It would appear that the forum is hosted by Amazon Web Services...
tree68It would appear that the forum is hosted by Amazon Web Services...
It would appear the forum is hosted by the Telligent platform (the back-end software that has supported it for about a decade) which uses the Amazon server architecture.
You may remember the repeated tech links at the beginning of the year about how this platform is obsolescent and they don't have the original source or object code to reinstall or maintain it.
RRNUT282: your forum picture ID is interesting. I know exactly what's going on, BUT I was scrolling through a series of "mishaps" (farm equipment stuck on a bridge etc.). Your picture was there and the comment below was, "Wonder what this guy was doing?" I had to laugh. endmrw0524242141
Have found that if you avoid the main trains forum and bookmark each of the 5 subjects (general discussion etc) that access is quicker.
The Trains site is working perfectively for me this morning. Quick responses and no chaff.
The Trains site is working perfectly for me this morning. Quick responses and no chaff.
diningcarThe Trains site is working perfectly for me this morning. Quick responses and no chaff.
But it looks like it made you double post the same post!
BaltACD diningcar The Trains site is working perfectly for me this morning. Quick responses and no chaff. But it looks like it made you double post the same post!
diningcar The Trains site is working perfectly for me this morning. Quick responses and no chaff.
Ditto.
BaltACDBut it looks like it made you double post the same post!
Which is interesting, as any time I impatiently hit enter a second time, I get told that it's a duplicate post.
OTOH, I used to work with a woman who frequently managed to double enter on one of our machines. She was the only one who ever did. Usually it meant that someone had to go in and tell the machine to ignore the second command (she didn't know how).
The evolution of disk storage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt5t84Z7u_I
Solid state is now where it's at. I have a 32 gigabyte "thumb drive" sitting next to me, and I put a terabyte drive into my ham shack microcomputer...
Meanwhile, in the garage attic, in a box, sits a museum piece - a Tandy 1000SX into which I installed an aftermarked 40 megabyte hard drive. It was so nice, not having to boot up with a 5.25" floppy or two...
tree68Solid state is now where it's at. I have a 32 gigabyte "thumb drive" sitting next to me, and I put a terabyte drive into my ham shack microcomputer... Meanwhile, in the garage attic, in a box, sits a museum piece - a Tandy 1000SX into which I installed an aftermarked 40 megabyte hard drive. It was so nice, not having to boot up with a 5.25" floppy or two...
A couple of years ago I had an issue with my W10 Dell laptop and had to have it diagnosed and repaired professionally. The fault ended up being a cooling fan that wasn't cooling to the degree necessary. The machine had a 1 TB hard drive and the tech said he could install a 1 TB Solid State Drive for about $100. So now the machine has the SDD installed and I got a cover and can use the prior HDD as an external drive.
I remember upgrading to a 30MB RLL drive, and more RAM right at the depths of the Reagan-era price increase on foreign-made chips, in order to run Oracle 5.1 (!) for the Collaborative Ocular Melanoma Study's immense reams of data. Which turned out to be supplied -- the raw data, mind you -- on one floppy disk.
I got the first Mac IIx sold in New York, with the amazing A/UX operating system preinstalled on its EIGHTY megabyte drive -- I could not believe I had All That Storage available to me!
After that, it was blasé acceptance of Moore's-Law improvements... I didn't even bother to read much about GMR as hard drives sneaked from 4GB up to 320GB to multiple terabytes in the $100 range.
Sadly, I can still remember my first exposure to very large storage -- it was at the Government Computer Show in I think 1991, and the Exabyte company had built a wall of their streaming tape drives about 8 feet high and a whole booth wide, all live. (I don't remember what they were hooked to, and I suppose the story is better if we imagine they actually were). We now have flash-based SSDs with astounding MTTF that are larger than that...
Dear trains I am now getting instant response to any inquiries. Maybe this forum fixed??
blue streak 1 Dear trains I am now getting instant response to any inquiries. Maybe this forum fixed??
Sorry was wrong its back--------------------
blue streak 1Sorry was wrong its back--------------------
It's been hit or miss for me.
tree68 blue streak 1 Sorry was wrong its back-------------------- It's been hit or miss for me.
blue streak 1 Sorry was wrong its back--------------------
It has been hit or miss all week, still much better than last week when it was miss, miss , miss miss miss
Good enough to say it is working, bad enough to frustrate most people.
BaltACD tree68 blue streak 1 Sorry was wrong its back-------------------- It's been hit or miss for me. It has been hit or miss all week, still much better than last week when it was miss, miss , miss miss miss Good enough to say it is working, bad enough to frustrate most people.
It probably doesn't matter much whether or not the fora continue, since most of the posts are in an echo chamber of you and a few others. In 2024, many long-time members have left or ceased activity.
charlie hebdo In 2024, many long-time members have left or ceased activity.
Alas, many have moved on to their final reward. Some we know of, some were of an age where that seems likely.
tree68 charlie hebdo In 2024, many long-time members have left or ceased activity. Alas, many have moved on to their final reward. Some we know of, some were of an age where that seems likely.
On a happier note, a video from Facebook showing Larry's train, I believe.
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/M8wL2dHEnEq6Wxc1/?mibextid=oFDknk
Operation of the forum as it is presently operating WILL NOT bring in any new members. The forum is operating in the manner of PennCentral passenger service before Amtrak, in a manner to drive away any passenger foolish enough to use a PC passenger train one time from ever using their 'service' again.
My guess is they P2V'd the Kalmbach servers to a hosted environment during that outage - now the forums connect, if very slowly on occasion. Which tracks with the forum software being ancient, buggy and a RAM hog.
The likely replacement are unused facebook or disqus comments on articles.
charlie hebdoOn a happier note, a video from Facebook showing Larry's train, I believe.
Indeed. I wasn't on it that day, though. MP U3.
The 'Main' Index screen for the Forum does not appear to be updating in 'real time'. On some threads it will show poster X as being the most recent poster, when the thread gets called up you find poster Y was the last poster to the thread and that post was made an hour or more from the current time.
Additionally I have 'made' posts, an a minute or more after initiating the 'Submit Your Reply' button I get 'Sorry there was a problem with your last request' with additional verbiage about the site being off line or having a unhandled error.
If I use the back button and resubmit the post, most of the time I will get the 'Duplicate Post' response.
BaltACD The 'Main' Index screen for the Forum does not appear to be updating in 'real time'. On some threads it will show poster X as being the most recent poster, when the thread gets called up you find poster Y was the last poster to the thread and that post was made an hour or more from the current time. Additionally I have 'made' posts, an a minute or more after initiating the 'Submit Your Reply' button I get 'Sorry there was a problem with your last request' with additional verbiage about the site being off line or having a unhandled error. If I use the back button and resubmit the post, most of the time I will get the 'Duplicate Post' response.
Yes, that glitch or the instant Time Out message, "Site taking too long to respond"
BaltACD The 'Main' Index screen for the Forum does not appear to be updating in 'real time'.
The 'Main' Index screen for the Forum does not appear to be updating in 'real time'.
Had same problem. finally was able to book mark each section ( ie general discussion, passenger. etc ) and it connects quickly.
Now we're at the point where it seems 90% of the posts are talking about whether users can post or not. At this rate, does it really matter if the site is up anymore?
zugmannNow we're at the point where it seems 90% of the posts are talking about whether users can post or not. At this rate, does it really matter if the site is up anymore?
It looks like the Forum is being given the pre-Amtrak Penn Central passenger service 'solution'. Make the service SO BAD nobody will want to use it.
BaltACD zugmann Now we're at the point where it seems 90% of the posts are talking about whether users can post or not. At this rate, does it really matter if the site is up anymore? It looks like the Forum is being given the pre-Amtrak Penn Central passenger service 'solution'. Make the service SO BAD nobody will want to use it.
zugmann Now we're at the point where it seems 90% of the posts are talking about whether users can post or not. At this rate, does it really matter if the site is up anymore?
It's become a hit or (mostly) miss operation. The SP also made some trains so bad it was eady to abandon gor lack of ridership.
I recall some PC "confuctors* were Institutionally rude.
BaltACD Additionally I have 'made' posts, an a minute or more after initiating the 'Submit Your Reply' button I get 'Sorry there was a problem with your last request' with additional verbiage about the site being off line or having a unhandled error. If I use the back button and resubmit the post, most of the time I will get the 'Duplicate Post' response.
Biaggini and, I think, Menk were notorious for making riding conditions and amenities as miserable as possible to spur train-off petitions. Expense of vending machines/'automat car' is one thing; intentionally providing miserable food in them quite another...
For sheer conductor nastiness it would be hard to beat some of the Erie-Lackawanna commuter routes in northern New Jersey. When someone threatens to put Karl R. Zimmermann off the train, you know it's tyranny.
Today - D day 2024
I have had serveral 504 time outs and several occasions when the forum responds like it is supposed to. ?????
I have just witnessed a miracle! The site was very sluggish, taking much of the minute to respond and occasionally going past and giving me the 504. Then shortly after midnight CDT, the logjam broke loose and I started getting instant responses. Ain't that sump'm?
I've been getting 504 tieout errors for the last few days, but the site came up promptly this morning.
OvermodOvermod wrote the following post 2 days ago: Biaggini and, I think, Menk were notorious for making riding conditions and amenities as miserable as possible to spur train-off petitions.
Biaggini definitely. Louis Menk was rumored to have said the point of setting up Amtrak was to have it fail within a few years. However, NP and BN passenger trains seemed to remain at a pretty high level of passenger amenities as late as 1968 when I last rode the combined NCL/EB diner Chicago to East Dubuque.
There are times when the forum acts as it should - and then more times it devolves into 504 errors and all the various errors we have identified over the months/years that the site has been wonkey.
The principle of variable reinforcement makes it so hard to simply wash one's hands of these fora and never return.
After all, they might be working again in a few more hours; just like the slot machine has got to hit again and before long, right?
Flintlock may have the right idea regarding this situation
I have also been getting '403 Forbidden' errors
Working fine for me today.
It comes, and it goes...
Yes!! Coming and going!! Now has migrated to News Wire at time although trying to type anything in news wire unable to type normally. Wonder if he US is being hacked by Russia and China>????
blue streak 1Wonder if he US is being hacked by Russia and China>????
I think that's a daily occurance...
Or it's an old site that gets barely anything put into it?
It is still 504 ing.
I go to many sites - and only get 504's here
I agree. Trains managed to find the worst social media software and server in existence.
Way to go, guys!
Perhaps we should reconsider OM's offer to host?
All of us? <10 members?
Has the new owner indicated any intention of keeping all, or any of the forums in operation? I think it is noteworthy that Kalmbach has not offered any explanation for the technical problems with this forum, and no indication of an intent to repair these problems. It is as if they don't even know about the problems.
EuclidI think it is noteworthy that Kalmbach has not offered any explanation for the technical problems with this forum, and no indication of an intent to repair these problems. It is as if they don't even know about the problems.
Not true. A Kalmbach IT person posted some commentary about the forums and the problems associated with them some time ago, early in 2024 if I recall correctly. He acknowledged these forums run on old software that is no longer supported. He said the likely solution was to switch to a modern forum platform (like phpBB or similar). He solicited input about the need to transfer existing posts into a new system, or start the new system from scratch.
This person has not posted in some time, and may not even be with Kalmbach or the new owner at this point. But while it was still under Kalmbach ownership, somene there did know the forums were a problem and was at least scoping out potential solutions.
It would be a shame to lose the old content, and therein lies the rub. I've been involved in such transitions before and they are a royal pain.
adkrr64 Euclid I think it is noteworthy that Kalmbach has not offered any explanation for the technical problems with this forum, and no indication of an intent to repair these problems. It is as if they don't even know about the problems. Not true. A Kalmbach IT person posted some commentary about the forums and the problems associated with them some time ago, early in 2024 if I recall correctly. He acknowledged these forums run on old software that is no longer supported. He said the likely solution was to switch to a modern forum platform (like phpBB or similar). He solicited input about the need to transfer existing posts into a new system, or start the new system from scratch. This person has not posted in some time, and may not even be with Kalmbach or the new owner at this point. But while it was still under Kalmbach ownership, somene there did know the forums were a problem and was at least scoping out potential solutions.
Euclid I think it is noteworthy that Kalmbach has not offered any explanation for the technical problems with this forum, and no indication of an intent to repair these problems. It is as if they don't even know about the problems.
Looking at the Trains Forum this morning shows it is pretty moribund in terms of activity, even though it is working well.
Time to pull the plug?
Not sure if it is time to pull the plug as the website was being erratic a couple of minutes ago. It almost made it to a 504 timeout before responding - I minimized the waste of time by making use of browser tabs to read another website during the time to respond.
Edit (12 hours later): Website came up promptly, but wondering if I jinxed things by writing that....
At least it works some/most of the time.
Ham radio's "Logbook of the World" got hacked several weeks ago and still isn't back on-line. It's one of the tools hams use to keep track of their contacts. Dissatisfaction with management is much stronger there than it is here, trust me.
charlie hebdoLooking at the Trains Forum this morning shows it is pretty moribund in terms of activity, even though it is working well. Time to pull the plug?
It is working, but is far from well.
charlie hebdoLooking at the Trains Forum this morning shows it is pretty moribund in terms of activity, even though it is working well.
The lack of activity predates the current accessibility issues. As has been mentioned, a lot of the old timers have passed on or moved on. And most of them were very active. And users come and go on any forum.
Charlie HebdoTime to pull the plug?
tree68The lack of activity predates the current accessibility issues. As has been mentioned, a lot of the old timers have passed on or moved on. And most of them were very active. And users come and go on any forum.
Very true. The Trains fora are populated (in terms of posts) by a handful of old timers. I suspect the median age is north of 70, maybe well north.
charlie hebdo maybe well north.
Does 92 apply?
We could survey the dozen or so of us lingerers?
I'm 77.
I'll be 71 in August.
For what it's worth the current editor of "Classic Toy Trains" Rene Schweitzer says there's no plans to drop the various former Kalmbach Forums.
I'll be 70 in October.
I'm ~5 years too young to have any memories of mainline steam, but old enough to remember dozens of class 1's, pre-Amtrak passenger trains and loose car freight. There is generally less variety in the industry with the possible exception of comuter rail.
Dramatic changes in the industry pre-date my existence in this world, with one example of Lucius Beebe's Mixed Train Daily documenting aspects of railroading that was rapidly disappearing after the end of WW2.
Having said that, what got me hooked on reaading Trains was the article about the D&H high pressure experimentals in the June 1967 issue of Trains. I also get a kick out of reading the old issues of Trains in the magazine archives, e.g. the article on the East Broad Top written when it was still a going concern in 1941.
I'm 76.
(I look at that number and can't believe it actually applies to me.)
83
59, turning 60 in August
A few more yungens like Overmod and Zugmann and Tree plus elders Balt and Dave K.
A mere youth, I'm only 71. Incidentally, the only mainline steam that I remember was NKP 2-8-4's.
Still in the blaming the people who got let go stage. Eventually somebody will have to decide whether to punt the forums or pay for the fix.
Pro tip - remove any names that got let go when submitting their plan for approval by the new bosses.
NKP guy(I look at that number and can't believe it actually applies to me.)
Same here - 73.
OWTX names that got let go
Now THAT we won't know until the post-Firecrown purchase publications show up with the new mastheads. There's names I HOPE I don't see.
For nostalgia's sake, I've picked up the June and July issues of MR in part to get the last one with the Kalmbach masthead - I have my father-in-laws first 10 to 12 volumes of MR along with a ragged June 1964 issue of MR that my parents bought for me.
Was a bit distressing to see how thin MR is getting, and also disconcerting to see the index of advertisers. OTOH, I'm seeing the same thing in a lot of other magazines.
Forum seems to be pretty snappy at the moment, though it is having a bit of a problem with page numbers on this thread.
Erik_MagWas a bit distressing to see how thin MR is getting, and also disconcerting to see the index of advertisers. OTOH, I'm seeing the same thing in a lot of other magazines.
It's a common phenomenon across pretty much all magazines, and a good many have given up the ghost entirely. A magazine that comes with my membership in an organization has gone entirely on-line. I haven't bothered to check it out since it did.
I remember you wrote that QST has gone on-line only after over 100 years of publication. The Internet Archive has collection of older QST issues, got a kick out of seeing a picture of Don Wallace (W6AM SK) in a mid 1920's issue as I had met him in person a few times and had a neighbor (W6ID also SK) who met him at a 1924 convention.
Reading a paper document is usually less stressful than reading on-line, though large 4k or 5k monitors plus gigabit fiber optic connection does make reading on-line a lot more tolerable.
Books still seem to be going strong, though books are much less focused on news than magazines.With websites, news can be delivered almost instantly, whereas a monthly magazine may have a month or more turnaround time.
69. Hired out with Southern Railway (Trainman) 1977.
SRy. became Norfolk Southern 1982.
Promoted to Locomotive Fireman 1984.
Promoted to Locomotive Engineer 1985.
Left NS 1997. 20 years service.
Saw reduction in train crew from up to 5 down to as few as 2.
Saw elimination of cabooses.
Saw Southern Railway join AMTRAK.
Began drawing Railroad Retirement 2022.
Got a different type error the afternoon of 6/25
BaltACD Got a different type error the afternoon of 6/25
Yes, Bizarro World
I have never seen a message like the one yesterday. Does IT have any idea? Suggest that if any of these items happen again a message on News Wire might be appropriate.
I got the same error over at least a 12 hour period - looked like some files were missing from the Windows server hosting the website, notably the ".dll" files needed for applications to run. Got a 504 error when trying to post a few hours ago.
Update: No 504 error when posting and response was quick.
Someone deleted or corrupted a key part of the Telligent software installation, perhaps when moving the servers out of the building that has to be vacated by July 15th.
Based on what Mr. Otte and others had said, I was worried 'this was the end' because Kalmbach had no way to reinstall the missing files. The site went from the DLL error to a by-now-normal 504, and since the site is back up I presume they were successful at restoring from backup.
During the outage I did a little research to see if a repository or organization had access to the missing files. It turns out that the current version of the successor package (Verint Community 13, current 2024) has a full suite of online videos on how to install, configure, and administer it -- just what Firecrown needs to use to assure compatibility with 'legacy' post information and other data. We can all use it, too, to understand what the forum software does and what options it can be set up to have.
https://community.telligent.com/p/all-documentation
Right now for me, the forum is responding faster than I can remember. Hope?
York1 John
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.