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Radio Transmission nobody wants to hear.

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Radio Transmission nobody wants to hear.
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, April 15, 2024 4:44 PM

BIG FAILURE - who or what to be determined

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqzWxJCMuCQ

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, April 15, 2024 7:37 PM

Evolving pretty quick.  MoW 'misaligned' crossover switch and then told 1032's crew they were clear to pass the local.

As at Cayce... restricted speed would not have permitted this.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, April 15, 2024 8:04 PM

Overmod
Evolving pretty quick.  MoW 'misaligned' crossover switch and then told 1032's crew they were clear to pass the local.

As at Cayce... restricted speed would not have permitted this.

Railroading is never a one man operation.  I takes EVERYBODY doing what IS REQUIRED when it is REQUIRED.

I have no knowledge of what kind of work was transpiring at Folkston.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, April 16, 2024 10:14 AM

The scene

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Posted by n012944 on Tuesday, April 16, 2024 2:26 PM

Overmod

Evolving pretty quick.  MoW 'misaligned' crossover switch and then told 1032's crew they were clear to pass the local.

As at Cayce... restricted speed would not have permitted this.

 

 

Of course it would have.  So would an employee doing their job correctly.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHo12vq-K4U

 

You can hear the crew dump the train at the 46 second mark, 18 seconds before it hit.  

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, April 16, 2024 7:07 PM

n012944
 
Overmod

Evolving pretty quick.  MoW 'misaligned' crossover switch and then told 1032's crew they were clear to pass the local.

As at Cayce... restricted speed would not have permitted this. 

Of course it would have.  So would an employee doing their job correctly.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHo12vq-K4U 

You can hear the crew dump the train at the 46 second mark, 18 seconds before it hit.  

Video indicates I032 was moving past the camera location at near track speed - Looks like I032 nowadays is a combination of the Juice Train and the Q032 Intermodal train of the old operating plan.

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Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Thursday, April 18, 2024 2:20 AM

At around 9 minutes into this Virtual Railfan grab bag, better video of things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9Wgf-uJetc

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Posted by caldreamer on Thursday, April 18, 2024 6:40 AM

What happened to the second crew members? The first crew reported to the dispatcher that they were going to check and report back.  Nothing has been said about them.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, April 18, 2024 8:51 AM

caldreamer
What happened to the second crew members? The first crew reported to the dispatcher that they were going to check and report back.  Nothing has been said about them.

https://railfan.com/csx-railroaders-hospitalized-after-georgia-wreck/

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, May 14, 2024 6:35 PM

The NTSB Preliminary report - 

The Switchtender ????

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/RRD24LR011.aspx

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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, May 16, 2024 1:55 PM

BaltACD

The NTSB Preliminary report - 

The Switchtender ????

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/RRD24LR011.aspx

 

Is it the term "switch-tender" or the fact that an operating craft individual could  fail a a simple assigned task (or something else?)....

Have seen when an operating craft person supposebly out there to protect us as a flagman because of a union agreement was a brutal letdown considerably more than once. (and to be fair, have seen the polar opposite as well.) .... the thing here is that person's failure got somebody hurt and derailed/destroyed track and material that should not been touched.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, May 16, 2024 2:19 PM

mudchicken
 
BaltACD

The NTSB Preliminary report - 

The Switchtender ????

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/RRD24LR011.aspx 

Is it the term "switch-tender" or the fact that an operating craft individual could  fail a a simple assigned task (or something else?).... 

Have seen when an operating craft person supposebly out there to protect us as a flagman because of a union agreement was a brutal letdown considerably more than once. (and to be fair, have seen the polar opposite as well.) .... the thing here is that person's failure got somebody hurt and derailed/destroyed track and material that should not been touched.

Switchtender is considered to be a 'menial task' job that ANY Conductor on the extra board is qualified to fill regardless of the the location.  The Switchtenders responsibilities at Folkston are more involved than they are at most locations where switchtenders are used in conjunction to Signal Suspensions.

Back in the day, men hired on into what were effectively 'apprentice' type positions and in working those positions over time, learned what was necessary to get 'promoted' to Conductor.  In the 21st Century people are hired off the street, run through a 'training program' for six to eight weeks and graduated to work their first 'unsupervised' day as a Conductor - with that 'qualified' Conductor by title being presumed qualified to handle any of the menial sub jobs such as Flagman or Switchtender that may arise.

Folkston is the junction of the Nahunta Subdivision that runs between Jacksonville and Savannah and the Jesup Subdivision that runs between Folkston and Waycross.  Both subdidivions are double track at Folkston.  L763 was the Southbound rock train that was stopped on the Jesup sub and I032 was the Northbound intermodal train that was intended to operate through Folkston on the Nahunta Sub.

I don't know what sort of Job Breifing the Switchtender was given - I do know on the Signal Suspensions I have been involved with, the Bulletin establishing the Suspension has a phone number for all employees who will be operating through the limits of the suspension to call to get a specific job breifing on what track warrants and/or signals will be required for them to operate through the area of the suspension.  I would think, but don't know, that the Switctender should have made that call.

The collision is evidence that the switches were not lined properly for the safe movement of both trains.  I don't know what instructions the Train Dispatcher gave the Switchtender - I DO KNOW that EVERY conversation that Train Dispatchers have over the radio is recorded and available for accident investigation.

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Posted by railfanjohn on Thursday, May 16, 2024 6:08 PM

Dual-control power opersted switches have two different levers attached to the mechanism.  A short lever, which is used to take the power off of the switch machine (it is usually marked on one side "Power" or "Motor" and on the other side "Hand").  Also a long lever which is the one that acutally moves the switch points when the short handle is in "Hand" position.  Quite often, because of the way these switch machines operate, the long handle will have to be thrown back and forth several times in order to move the switch points from normal to reverse or vice versa.  It is entirely possible (like BaltACD I have no way of knowing) that the Switchtender / Conductor, possibly due to inexperience, only threw the handle once.  Like he would have done on any ordinary hand throw switch.  However the switch points might not have moved at all.  And if he did not visualy inspect them (again, maybe inexperience) he may have reported the switch lined for the Nahunta Sub when in fact it was not.

Pure speculation on my part.

railfanjohn
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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, May 16, 2024 6:25 PM

railfanjohn
Quite often, because of the way these switch machines operate, the long handle will have to be thrown back and forth several times in order to move the switch points from normal to reverse or vice versa.  It is entirely possible (like BaltACD I have no way of knowing) that the Switchtender / Conductor, possibly due to inexperience, only threw the handle once. 

One thing we drill into our new volunteers is to verify the points before and after throwing a switch.  

Inexperience might be a factor, especially if said conductor hasn't thrown a lot of switches, or at least of this type.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, May 16, 2024 6:26 PM

railfanjohn
Dual-control power opersted switches have two different levers attached to the mechanism.  A short lever, which is used to take the power off of the switch machine (it is usually marked on one side "Power" or "Motor" and on the other side "Hand").  Also a long lever which is the one that acutally moves the switch points when the short handle is in "Hand" position.  Quite often, because of the way these switch machines operate, the long handle will have to be thrown back and forth several times in order to move the switch points from normal to reverse or vice versa.  It is entirely possible (like BaltACD I have no way of knowing) that the Switchtender / Conductor, possibly due to inexperience, only threw the handle once.  Like he would have done on any ordinary hand throw switch.  However the switch points might not have moved at all.  And if he did not visualy inspect them (again, maybe inexperience) he may have reported the switch lined for the Nahunta Sub when in fact it was not.

Pure speculation on my part.

From the TOP on down - a switchtender is viewed as a warm body that has virtually no responsibility - UNTIL SOMETHING GOES WRONG.  And here we are.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, May 16, 2024 7:28 PM

Aren't SPAFs and their procedures involved here... as they were at Cayce?

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, May 16, 2024 7:37 PM

Overmod
Aren't SPAFs and their procedures involved here... as they were at Cayce?

No - Switchtender is throwing switches at the direct instruction of the Train Dispatcher.

SPAF's are for employees that are part of train crews and are utilzing Main Track switches in performing their work duties servicing industries and other uses of Main Track switches.

Even if SPAF was being used, the Switchtender would have written the switches as instructed - not as actually lined - seeing that the Switchtender THOUGHT he had lined the route that the Train Dispatcher instructed him to do.

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