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How to Kill a Rail Renaissance - and Maybe the Whole Industry

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  • Member since
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  • From: Denver / La Junta
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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, December 12, 2023 7:40 PM

Balt: Crossings are only part of the equation. (and private crossings are somewhat easier to deal with than public crossings .... both have issues.) .... Earthwork and how to accomplish that in areas with less than 100 feet out to the R/W line are a bear combined with utility snafus. The era of 15 foot track centers is largely over and the huge "pads" around turnouts along with the obsession with access roads for dwindling track & signal forces creates headaches in terms of $$$, safety and elbow-room... 

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
  • Member since
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  • From: Canterlot
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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, December 12, 2023 9:17 AM

In all the years of PSR (and the years of PSR lite that came before), "growth" was never uttered as a defining characteristic of said philosophy.  

Don't know why anyone would be surprised, really. I mean, you really shouldn't. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, December 11, 2023 11:40 PM

samfp1943
 
charlie hebdo

Many wont like to hear your criticisms (except for the PSR part) but it needs to be said.  

Just cutting costs and not trying to grow new business is a recipe for failure long term. Stagnation is end game. 

   It is not often that I have seen eye-to-eye with The Professor...  But with his 'take' mentioned above, and the link he also showed, with his previous Thread entry; He has a point !

   I happento live on a major BNSF routing KC(Argentine,and Big IM facility, at Gardner.Ks)  Traffic is heavy inboth directions, East and West>.  

  FTL (also) "...  The Merchandise story is one of raising rates on traffic that doesn't have real alternatives.  Here's the Revenue per unit in constant 2017 dollars..."   

 Recently, the 'merchandise' traffic has been getting less and less, [in solid train moves] Itb seems to be consolidated into trains with DPU's, in the middles and at least, a DPU on the rear.    OR, they(Boxes, Reefers, Hoppers), are used to buffer between tank cars (*Possibly, also a :Risk' management tool(?)  making the so called land barges, ( sometimes,named around here, on these Forums?).

DPU's, are normally, unmanned, and controlled by the engineer on the lead unit. A method that alows the railroad toi control crew costs.  These longer trains then require more infrastructure to get from point to point...The railroad must spend more mone to move them, or move less freight.   $$$$$$$+.- (?)

PSR creates departure schedules, and waiting for full train lengths and numbers of loads before moving.    We have seen the demise of such as Pool Cars, and merchandise boxes, what I have seen more and more, are strings of mechanical reefer cars; they seem to place them on TOFC intermodal trains.

Serval times, or poster here, Murphy Siding, has complained about deliveries of his carloads of lumber....Again, single car movements tke the PSR hits.  

We are in a time of a different kind of railroading; good, or badm, time will tell????

Railroad physical facilities are habitually behind the delvelopment of operating plans such as PSR.  Terminal facilities cannot hold complete trains that are being run.  Sidings cannot hold the trains that are being run.  Terminals are blocked out for hours as PSR monsters are 'doubled' together from multiple yard tracks over a lead that prevents switching or the yarding of other trains over that same yard lead, thus restricting the operation of the terminal.  Crews spend multiple hours in putting the trains together so they don't have enough HOS time left to move the train to the destination terminal, let alone be able to yard the train on multiple tracks at that destination.

With PSR terminals need to have 15-20K foot Departure/Arrival yards and similar sized sidings on single track lines.  Road crossing locations need to be seriously looked at with the eye towards allowing the PSR Monsters to be held out of a Terminal without blocking road crossings or having to cut road crossings that exist. 

Today's terminals are sized for yesterday's pre PSR sized trains.

To run fewer bigger trains one needs bigger terminal facilities to both originate and terminal the PSR Monsters efficiently.

When apportioning work between Terminal and Line of Road - thought has to be given to which crews are 'on the clock' and what is the real cost to the portion of the orginaztion that uses up the 'clock'.  T&E labor agreements allow for a number of operating strategies - some cost in terminal manpower and some cost in line of road manpower.  As of the time I retired, there was open aggression between Terminal and Line of Road Management about who's crews were going to do the required work - as the 'Goals' of each class of management featured 'the other class' would do the work.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
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Posted by samfp1943 on Monday, December 11, 2023 10:19 PM

charlie hebdo

Many wont like to hear your criticisms (except for the PSR part) but it needs to be said.  

Just cutting costs and not trying to grow new business is a recipe for failure long term. Stagnation is end game.

 

   It is not often that I have seen eye-to-eye with The Professor...  But with his 'take' mentioned above, and the link he also showed, with his previous Thread entry; He has a point !

   I happen to live on a major BNSF routing KC(Argentine,and Big IM facility, at Gardner.Ks)  Traffic is heavy in both directions, East and West>.  

  FTL (also) "...  The Merchandise story is one of raising rates on traffic that doesn't have real alternatives.  Here's the Revenue per unit in constant 2017 dollars..."   

 Recently, the 'merchandise' traffic has been getting less and less, [in solid train moves] It seems to be consolidated into trains with DPU's, in the middles and at least, a DPU on the rear.    OR, they(Boxes, Reefers, Hoppers), are used to buffer between tank cars (*Possibly, also a :Risk' management tool (?)  making the 'so called, 'land-barges', ( sometimes,so-named around here, on these Forums?).

DPU's, are normally, unmanned, and controlled by the engineer on the lead unit. A method that alows the railroad toi control crew costs.  These longer trains then require more infrastructure to get from point to point...The railroads must spend more money to move them, or move less freight.   $$$$$$$+.- (?)

PSR creates departure schedules, and waiting for full train lengths, and numbers of loads, before moving.    We have seen the demise of such as Pool Cars, and merchandise boxes, what I have seen more and more, are strings of mechanical reefer cars; they seem to place them on TOFC intermodal trains.

Several times, our poster here, Murphy Siding, has complained about deliveries of his carloads of lumber....Again, single car movements, take the PSR hits.  

We are in a time of a different kind of railroading; good, or bad, time will tell????

 

 


 

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Monday, December 11, 2023 9:00 PM

Many wont like to hear your criticisms (except for the PSR part) but it needs to be said.  

Just cutting costs and not trying to grow new business is a recipe for failure long term. Stagnation is end game.

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Monday, December 11, 2023 8:50 PM
  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: Atlanta
  • 11,971 posts
How to Kill a Rail Renaissance - and Maybe the Whole Industry
Posted by oltmannd on Monday, December 11, 2023 8:40 PM
Okay... That's a bit much, maybe. But, I added a few years of NS 10K data to my collection and took a look. Yuck. Ugly. Now, even intermodal is dying. Why? I think PSR, mostly with a side of DPU - and lack of forward thinking. https://blerfblog.blogspot.com/2023/12/how-to-kill-rail-renaissance-and-maybe.html YMMV.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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