Wow, I just found out about this. CSX sold the railway line but retained ownership of the land underneath the railway line. I did not know that was possible. Also they renewed that arrangement until 2028. I wonder what they are thinking at CSX. A railroad ROW by itself can't be very valuable unless they are retaining with the idea of later selling at a inflated price to SW Florida.
Here is a link that briefly touches on the arrangement. I always thought CSX abandoned or sold the line wholesale. It appears they see some value in retention of the land. I wonder if this means they are also paying taxes on it?
https://archive.naplesnews.com/news/local/area-leaders-consider-bringing-commuter-trains-lines-back-ep-396984063-343711612.html/
A "park" near me has the land owned by the park owner (it was a church), while the houses (some quite substantial) are owned by their occupants. I have no idea how the tax thing works.
I would opine that CSX gets enough from Seminole Gulf to pay the taxes, or they just make SG do it themselves. Depends on how the agreement is written.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
One possibility - Brightline is going to Tampa.
Fort Myers to Tampa for Brightline would not be out of the realm of possibility in the future especially as the Florida population continues to expand over the ensuing years.
The west coast of Florida between Fort Myers to Tampa is not yet as dense as the east coast, but it is growing rapidly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_counties_in_Florida
While CSX has actively 'outsourced' operation of a number of their lines, that outsourcing has mostly been leasing the operating rights to the line and its customers, however, CSX retains ownership of the line. Such actions removes the employees and equipment required to operate and maintain the line. Most of these situations are all about reducing the CSX employee head count and yet retaining the line haul revenue that the leased lines generate as CSX is still the major interchange partner for the leased lines.
The organizations that lease these lines can implement their own work rules and payment systems for their employees and don't have to abide by the various craft agreements that applied whe CSX operated the lines.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I do not think the reporter knows what the deal is, but simply threw words into empty places in his story.
The most common structure is a lease, as Balt described. This is easiest for the new operator since he does not have to come up with cash for the hard assets.
Also reasonably common is sale of all assets, land and track, with or without a buy back provision.
I will believe the story as reported only if I read the agreement, which is highly unlikely.
Mac
kgbw49Fort Myers to Tampa for Brightline would not be out of the realm of possibility in the future especially as the Florida population continues to expand over the ensuing years.
A possibility, but take it from me, I've seen the Seminole Gulf. It'd take a major rebuild of the line to make Brightline speeds possible, there's no way it could handle those speeds as it is now.
Flintlock76 kgbw49 Fort Myers to Tampa for Brightline would not be out of the realm of possibility in the future especially as the Florida population continues to expand over the ensuing years.
kgbw49
blue streak 1I have only been that aarea once. I seem to remember that the tracks went by some back yards? Then immediately went across some kind of road? IMO that is a real impediment? What were the max speeds when passenger trains used those tracks and what are the Seminole speeds now? Add Quote to your Post
Last time I was down there was 2003. The line was 10-15 mph South of Fort Meyers to Bonita Springs, it does not go into downtown Naples but just touches North Naples. The Naples Depot is a museum now and it wasn't really built downtown or downtown shifted after it was built most of the ROW between the depot and the end of track in North Naples has been built over, nothing that could not be fixed via condemning a street and using that ROW instead. They built a passenger loading platform with shelter in Bonita Springs for tourist rides (3x a day) between Bonita Springs and Fort Meyers. Bonita Springs is the next city North of North Naples. Rode that and the track ride was pretty crappy. They have some RR crossings in Fort Meyers and one still had the super-elevation in it from when the West Coast Champion used the line. They never reduced the super-evevation because the curve was over a RR crossing it seems. Fort Meyers has a freight yard and thats as far South as freight trains go as near as I can tell. I believe South of Fort Meyers toward Bonita Springs they might have 1-2 freight customers but the meat of the traffic is Fort Meyers North to the interchange with CSX South of Tampa.
The line between Bonita Springs and Fort Meyers is very straight and not many rr crossings, they could do decent high speed on that section. Through Fort Meyers there are a few RR crossings but not a lot. Never went further North than North Fort Meyers. The ACL Depot in Fort Meyers was still standing but was a museum. I think it is closed and vacant again now. It's done in Spanish Mission Style and is medium sized......also not near the downtown section.
Looks to me that the Tampa to Naples line was built around the time of the Milwaukee PCE or later (early 1910's - 1920's). Because of the locations of the stations are not close into downtown, looks like there was a city before the rail line in most locations...............so that is one drawback or advantage depending on how you look at it.
https://www.citizensagainstthetrain.com/sites/default/files/content/florida-rail-network.jpg
Flintlock76 kgbw49 Fort Myers to Tampa for Brightline would not be out of the realm of possibility in the future especially as the Florida population continues to expand over the ensuing years. A possibility, but take it from me, I've seen the Seminole Gulf. It'd take a major rebuild of the line to make Brightline speeds possible, there's no way it could handle those speeds as it is now.
kgbw49 Fort Myers to Tampa for Brightline would not be out of the realm of possibility in the future especially as the Florida population continues to expand over the ensuing years.
No doubt it would take a complete rebuild. But remember, Brightline is rebuilding the FEC while adding a second track Miami-Cocoa Beach and building completely new right of way Cocoa Beach-Orlando. Rebuilding on the Seminole Gulf right of way would be in their skill set.
I can't add too much to what kgb said, but here's the Seminole Gulf Railway story and website:
https://www.floridarail.com/about-us/
And here's the Wiki article with a map:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seminole_Gulf_Railway
The old ACL station museum in Fort Myers is definately closed, it's now a conference center. I found that out last time I was there about three years ago, I went to visit the museum having been there there before and enjoying it tremendously but now it was no more.
The Naples station museum is still active and a fun place to visit!
https://colliermuseums.com/locations/naples-depot-museum
http://www.naplestrainmuseum.org/
Nothing unusual here. Union Pacific and BNSF do similar things out west.
What's been turning people's minds inside-out around here is UP leasing BNSF their side of the joint-line between Denver-Pueblo-NA Jcn since 2016 so they can dispatch and maintain a line that is now much more important to BNSF than UP.
'76, next time you go down to Fort Myers, try the Dixie Fish Company in Fort Myers Beach. It is right on the inner harbor, and the Key West Express passes by on the way in and out on each run, so close you feel like you could reach out and touch the sides as it passes.
The atmosphere is just great and the food is tremendous. They have the best grilled jumbo prawns - I order it almost every time I am there!
Give it a try if you get a chance - you won't be disappointed!
https://www.dixiefishfmb.com/
kgbw49'76, next time you go down to Fort Myers, try the Dixie Fish Company in Fort Myers Beach.
Oh man, that looks so gooooood!!!
This was a fairly common process for CSX line sales, at least in the past - it prevents the acquiring entity from selling or leasing rail access to a competitor or other party CSX views as being unfavorable to their interests. At the same time, CSX retains a choice share of the revenues from the line while removing assets in the roadbed, track structure, and supporting infastructure (such as bridges) from the CSX books, which has the net effect of increasing return on the remaining working assets.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.