ccltrains Realize the bridge will not fail from a little rust but where is the pride of ownership.
I've always suspected that the people who design and build such long term assets, have a degree of "this thing will out live all of us" mentality, where whatever happens after they are dead and gone is of little concern to them. (someone else's problem)
Then, from a practical matter, if a bridge has an anticipated lifespan of 150 years, and its already 120 years old, the amount of money it's owner is willing to spend on it might have some constraint. Just spend what is absolutely required, etc.
And then, there are differing priorities. Just because mine may differ from my neighbors does not mean either one of us is "right" vs "wrong". But it's a safe bet that when he's trying to borrow against the equity in his home, he's very likely to sic the code enforcement people on me if he feels my neglect is impacting the value of his home.
And I don't see any valid reason why absentee owners (railroads) should be exempt from similar responsibility to their neighbors.
Here, they add surcharge penalties to the property tax bills to force negligent home owners to replace dilapidated and unsightly roofs, etc...and the penalties are stiff.
Years ago I suppose the railroads had some leverage due to the number of jobs they supported in each community they passed through. I suspect much of that leverage has evaporated in the communities those railroads only run-through now.
The public doesn't care what RR bridges look like. They don't even notice them. They're just glad that it's not a grade crossing where they have to wait 15 minutes for a land barge to go through.
The public that doesn't live near a bridge, perhaps. While others have been quite outspoken.
https://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/61873.aspx?page=1
I doubt that link will "light up". Most likely you'll have to copy and paste the address
Convicted Onehttps://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/61873.aspx?page=1
While we are on the subject of the Hernando DeSoto bridge, a perhaps ominous point:
A very intensive review and redesign of the seismic response of this particular structure was done relatively recently. This included a downright fascinating implementation of 'bridge shoes' that self-restore from random lateral perturbations: there is a steel 'saucer' with a hardened sphere in it, and the non-fixed end of the truss rides on this with cable and attenuator connections.
Point is, major engineering work was done on that bridge comparatively recently, and for cracking 'not to be observed' from 2016 up to the date it was 'noticed' suggests that it might have originated in some of the remediation work, too 'new' for dangerous cracks to have propagated...
... how many other 'recent replacement' structures get full and expensive NDT yearly?
BackshopThe public doesn't care what RR bridges look like.
Let's face it, rust brown kind of blends into the scenery.
I'd actually imagine that the public would complain about a bridge being painted a color that makes it stick out, including silver. OTOH, painting one in a local interest scheme (school colors?) might go over well.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
The Roman aqueducts have hung around for awhile.
mudchickenhttps://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/61873.aspx?page=1
Maybe I'm at a disadvantage by not being from that select group of privileged members receiving special entitlements. But your link doesn't work any better than mine.
( I never have been able to link to other posts in this messageboard)
Convicted One I've always suspected that the people who design and build such long term assets, have a degree of "this thing will out live all of us" mentality, where whatever happens after they are dead and gone is of little concern to them. (someone else's problem) Then, from a practical matter, if a bridge has an anticipated lifespan of 150 years, and its already 120 years old, the amount of money it's owner is willing to spend on it might have some constraint. Just spend what is absolutely required, etc.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
tree68 Backshop The public doesn't care what RR bridges look like. Let's face it, rust brown kind of blends into the scenery. I'd actually imagine that the public would complain about a bridge being painted a color that makes it stick out, including silver. OTOH, painting one in a local interest scheme (school colors?) might go over well.
Backshop The public doesn't care what RR bridges look like.
South Dakota has "rougher parts of towns"?
Murphy Siding doesn't every company look at lifespan and budgeting when spending lots of money on equipment or infrastructure?
I really think you're missing the point I had intended. Grandiose ambitions in completing the lines carried by these bridges gave little room for sober thoughts about who was gonna re-paint them in 60 years. E.G.: "somebody else's problem"
We have a number of these in Michigan, the namesake being a local group. I'll let the image speak for itself.
Backshop South Dakota has "rougher parts of towns"?
Overmod While we are on the subject of the Hernando DeSoto bridge, a perhaps ominous point: A very intensive review and redesign of the seismic response of this particular structure was done relatively recently. This included a downright fascinating implementation of 'bridge shoes' that self-restore from random lateral perturbations: there is a steel 'saucer' with a hardened sphere in it, and the non-fixed end of the truss rides on this with cable and attenuator connections. Point is, major engineering work was done on that bridge comparatively recently, and for cracking 'not to be observed' from 2016 up to the date it was 'noticed' suggests that it might have originated in some of the remediation work, too 'new' for dangerous cracks to have propagated... ... how many other 'recent replacement' structures get full and expensive NDT yearly?
What I read said the failure started soon after the original parts were fabricated, but that it was inside and took awhile to show on the outer surfaces.
Here is a report on the subject. I have yet to read it:
https://www.ardot.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Fracture-Investigation-I-40-MS-Rvr-Bridge.pdf
And the cracking not being observed from 2016 up to a later date was because the bridge inspector didn't bother to inspect that area of the bridge.
He was fired. Though if he actually did such a shoddy job of inspection, I am surprised criminal charges weren't filed--something along the lines of theft. He got paid. He didn't do his job, intentionally. That surely could pass for theft.
Perhaps the inspectors need inspectors.
Ed
EnzoampsWe have a number of these in Michigan, the namesake being a local group. I'll let the image speak for itself.
Come on, baby, do the locomotion!
We had a problem on one bridge on the DART system. It is near a high school and the students wanted to paint it in school colors. We were against this but stopping the students was difficult. We put a chain link fence around the cement work but they climbed over the fence and painted. I suggested we drop a wire from the 700 volt track power line. We liked the idea but thought the lipegal liability would be bad. I suggested we station one of our transit police officers there. It took less than one hour to catch the prep. The funny part the father of the perp was a high up city employee. After word of this got around no mor graffiti.
BaitACD is right about the railroad truss bridges that were built 100 plus years ago. I am a retired struct engineer and I can attest to the "unintential" over design of these bridges. As BaltACD says, engineers then did not have modern design tools or accurate specs of the material they were working with. I recall reading an article about present day struct engineers checking samples of typical bridges of that era and they found, by far, the largest percentage are very safe for use today (even with todays heavier loads and traffic).
Northtowne
Northtowne I am a retired struct engineer and I can attest to the "unintential" over design of these bridges.
As a medieval cathedral builder might have said:
Brethren, if thou art not certain, build hem stronger!
This here bridge:
has probably recently been replaced. But for over 100 years, it carried SP&S, BN, and BNSF traffic along the old SP&S mainline.
No slow orders, that I ever noticed.
Lots of 100 ton coal gons at maybe 50 MPH. And brown worms, too.
Not letting the high school paint 'their' bridge was an enormous public-relations advantage squandered. We have a local ex-IC bridge (roughly between the University of Nemphis campus and the stadium in which their teams play) that has been repainted in blue and white... it covers up stained old concrete and shows local spirit. With a little more 'oversight' the design and execution could have been far better.
Note that getting the school officially involved in helping maintain the paint was at least a possibility, as was appealing to alumni or local 'booster' groups for added support, including donated supplies or professional assistance.
The now UP bridge in Rockford, Il. (linked below) for many years had a nice mural painted on it of the Galena and Chicago Union Pioneer engine and train. This is the original ROW. First rail line built from Chicago. https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.y7dHnyMKw0W7TlO8pvIsawHaE8%26pid%3DApi&f=1
https://bridgehunter.com/il/winnebago/bh50308/Photo of part of bridge and station in their prime. https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.b6Cl7KfUyd3ZwS65qTOIvgAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1
Pioneer being used during construction of Rock River bridge just west of photos above. https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.3My5dhMAwgXtihn6RsrNxwHaE9%26pid%3DApi&f=1
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