Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
I am guessing - 13K to 15K is what I am see referrenced most
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Murphy Siding Every now and then we hear about some 18-mile long train run just to see if it could be done, etc.
Still in training.
Lithonia OperatorYou're exaggerating, right? Maybe 18K feet?
I don't think it was 18 miles, but someone did run an extremely long train as an experiment out west.
Thirteen thousand feet seems to pop up fairly often.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
The world record (set in Australia) for longest train ever operated is 4.53 miles. 682 cars.
The longest train operated in the US/North America was 3.5 miles.
https://medium.com/knowledge-stew/the-longest-train-in-the-world-195a8ffa660f
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
Lithonia Operator Murphy Siding Every now and then we hear about some 18-mile long train run just to see if it could be done, etc. You're exaggerating, right? Maybe 18K feet?
I once heard a person, on a different subject, say, "They're just trying to get in the World Book of Genesis."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_trains
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
Murphy Siding OK,so maybe I exaggerated a little bit.
Tell that to John Q. Public, stuck at a crossing, firmly believing that your estimate is conservative since that train seems to be every bit of twenty miles long.
"Is it ever going to end?"
Sudbury, Ontario is a busy railroad town. They have three tracks crossing a main street and yes, it can take a long, long time before the gates go back up.
There are some intermodals that run in the 18000 foot range. Not everyday, but they do get up to that. 11000 to 13000 feet is probably average for intermodals. Even the Z trains are often at least 9000 or 10000 feet long. I saw one today (Z train) probably about 3/4 of a mile long. An anomaly for sure.
Manifests also average out at around 11000 or 12000 feet, with 15000 feet not uncommon. (The longest I've had was about 15800 feet.) I've seen a couple that ran at 17000 feet.
They also have been combining two trains together. Usually two of the same kind (coal, grain, etc) but have combo'd grain and ethanol trains, usually empties. For awhile, and they may still be doing it, they were combining 3 empty coal trains out of Marysville KS heading back to the coal fields. That would put the length about 22000 feet =/-.
It used to be 9000 feet or over was considered a big train. Now that's a "baby" train.
Jeff
Around here they seem to aim for 12,000' for manifests and unit trains, this is the useful length of most of our mainline sidings. Many trains tonnage out first and run shorter, and some double unit trains end up being nearly 14,000'.
They've had success running intermodals at over 16,000' for several years, by "success" I mean that they get over the road in one piece, they still don't fit anywhere and take forever to build and yard.
They tried running a test 25,000' intermodal this fall, but couldn't get all the remotes to link so it ended up leaving as two separate trains. Apparently they want to try again.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
jeffhergertFor awhile, and they may still be doing it, they were combining 3 empty coal trains out of Marysville KS heading back to the coal fields
I've told this story before, but...
Back in the early 1970's I was hanging out at the depot in Rantoul, Illinois one night (Stationed at Chanute AFB). At the time, it was common to see unit coal trains (loaded and empty) of around 100 cars running up and down the "Mainline of Mid-America."
I saw the headlight of a southbound off in the distance, but that headlight looked awfully dim, and didn't appear to be approaching very fast.
It wasn't long before I found out why.
Apparently ICG was short of power in the Chicago area. They had combined two trains of empties behind just two units. I actually started counting the cars, ending up with just short of 200.
Central Illinois may look flat, but there are some long grades. Those two locos (sorry, don't remember what they were) were on their knees, as they say. The train lumbered by.
Around 1980 I double headed a 200 car empty hopper train over the B&O's P&W subdivision. With four units it ran well.
Chessie used to ran 200 plus car loaded coal trains east from Keyser, WVa., mostly down hill. They would get helpers when they encountered grades beyond Cumberland.
I wonder how the EOT's work with the super long trains. We had trouble at Willard, Oh. getting them to link up on 11-12,000 ft. trains. Sometimes the car inspector would taxi it to the head end to link it. Then a mile or two out of the terminal it would lose communication.
We have a system instruction limit of 10000 ft from the rear coupler of the engine consist to the EOT on a conventional train.
Trains over 10000 feet are supposed to have a midtrain DP equipped with an EOT repeater capable box in place of the regular head end EOT box. Often, they seem to forget the repeater, or just don't have one. With those without the repeater, it's a gamble on how it will work out. Some work fine, some have trouble, some hardly will work at all. When they don't work, keeping communication with the lead engine that allows an emergency application of the EOT, then it's 30 mph until the capability is restored.
The other day there were two Z trains that I encountered. I was on a 152 car coal train, a little over 8400 feet.
One Z train was 12000 feet. The other was 1770 feet. It only had 6 containers, all the rest of the wells were empty. The long one had all wells filled, most with double stacked containers. Just the way traffic can fluctuate.
jeffhergert We have a system instruction limit of 10000 ft from the rear coupler of the engine consist to the EOT on a conventional train. Trains over 10000 feet are supposed to have a midtrain DP equipped with an EOT repeater capable box in place of the regular head end EOT box. Often, they seem to forget the repeater, or just don't have one. With those without the repeater, it's a gamble on how it will work out. Some work fine, some have trouble, some hardly will work at all. When they don't work, keeping communication with the lead engine that allows an emergency application of the EOT, then it's 30 mph until the capability is restored. Jeff
The instructions for length from the head end to the EOT now only apply west of Cheyenne, Denver and somewhere down on the southern part of UP. Only on the western areas of the railroad.
On the eastern portion, 10000ft from head consist to rear DP consist is now allowed. On the western part it's still 8500ft, like it used to be system wide.
Last night I had a new personal record for length. A 18175ft manifest. Three engines, one on the front, one about 10000ft back and a third at the rear.
jeffhergert... Last night I had a new personal record for length. A 18175ft manifest. Three engines, one on the front, one about 10000ft back and a third at the rear. Jeff
Of course you were able to operate at track speed!
(1) There was the N&W experiment between Norfolk/Laeger & Cincinnati/Portsmouth circa 1995 with 500 cars. Has to have been exceeded many times over by now.
(2) over 8500-10000 feet and you won't find sidings to hold the things.
jeffhergert jeffhergert We have a system instruction limit of 10000 ft from the rear coupler of the engine consist to the EOT on a conventional train. Trains over 10000 feet are supposed to have a midtrain DP equipped with an EOT repeater capable box in place of the regular head end EOT box. Often, they seem to forget the repeater, or just don't have one. With those without the repeater, it's a gamble on how it will work out. Some work fine, some have trouble, some hardly will work at all. When they don't work, keeping communication with the lead engine that allows an emergency application of the EOT, then it's 30 mph until the capability is restored. Jeff The instructions for length from the head end to the EOT now only apply west of Cheyenne, Denver and somewhere down on the southern part of UP. Only on the western areas of the railroad. On the eastern portion, 10000ft from head consist to rear DP consist is now allowed. On the western part it's still 8500ft, like it used to be system wide. Last night I had a new personal record for length. A 18175ft manifest. Three engines, one on the front, one about 10000ft back and a third at the rear. Jeff
Murphy Siding jeffhergert jeffhergert We have a system instruction limit of 10000 ft from the rear coupler of the engine consist to the EOT on a conventional train. Trains over 10000 feet are supposed to have a midtrain DP equipped with an EOT repeater capable box in place of the regular head end EOT box. Often, they seem to forget the repeater, or just don't have one. With those without the repeater, it's a gamble on how it will work out. Some work fine, some have trouble, some hardly will work at all. When they don't work, keeping communication with the lead engine that allows an emergency application of the EOT, then it's 30 mph until the capability is restored. Jeff The instructions for length from the head end to the EOT now only apply west of Cheyenne, Denver and somewhere down on the southern part of UP. Only on the western areas of the railroad. On the eastern portion, 10000ft from head consist to rear DP consist is now allowed. On the western part it's still 8500ft, like it used to be system wide. Last night I had a new personal record for length. A 18175ft manifest. Three engines, one on the front, one about 10000ft back and a third at the rear. Jeff I'm not sure I'm following the math. "...10,000 ft from head consist to rear DP consist is now allowed..." "...A 18,175 ft manifest..."
I'm not sure I'm following the math. "...10,000 ft from head consist to rear DP consist is now allowed..." "...A 18,175 ft manifest..."
The 18000ft had one engine in front, a single mid train DP 10000ft back and then another about 8100ft back at the rear end.
It used to be system widw that DPs could not be more than 8500ft apart. Now that's only on the western lines. On the eastern lines the DP can be 10000ft back. Conventional trains used to have a 10000ft limit to the EOT. Now that only applies on the western lines. The way it's written assumes a single rear DP. All they did is change a few words from the original instructions, instead of rewriting the whole thing, so it's one of those clear as mud items.
jeffhergertThe 18000ft had one engine in front, a single mid train DP 10000ft back and then another about 8100ft back at the rear end. It used to be system widw that DPs could not be more than 8500ft apart. Now that's only on the western lines. On the eastern lines the DP can be 10000ft back. Conventional trains used to have a 10000ft limit to the EOT. Now that only applies on the western lines. The way it's written assumes a single rear DP. All they did is change a few words from the original instructions, instead of rewriting the whole thing, so it's one of those clear as mud items. Jeff
Rule writers getting more fluent writing in 'Gotcha'.
mudchicken (1) There was the N&W experiment between Norfolk/Laeger & Cincinnati/Portsmouth circa 1995 with 500 cars. Has to have been exceeded many times over by now.
I remember in Trains about the N&W running a couple of similarly sized trains in the late 1960's.
Murphy Siding How long are the longest freight trains commonly being run now? I’d gauge our local grain trains to be about 1-1/4 miles long.
You're correct. In South Dakota, shuttle grain train (110 cars or so) is about 7,000 feet long, including power. BNSF routinely operates stack trains out of Southern California to Chicago at 12,500 feet or so; It will also combined loaded coal trains between Alliance and Lincoln and Mandan to Superior be well over 14,000 feet. Similarly, loaded 110-car unit grain trains are combined at Minot to operate through to Pasco, and empties trains are combined at Auburn, WA to operate through to Laurel.
I suspect that the actual longest train ever operated in the U.S. is not specifically documented, but likely spontaneous. At the end of July, 2009, Montana Rail Link's Mullan Tunnel collapsed, rendering its main line out of service for about a week. Trains detoured, mostly via Great Falls, Montana. The day it was supposed to open about a week later (early August), there were numerous trains staged at Laurel and west in anticipation of the reopening. Then came the news: A new collapse and this was a big one. The line was about of service until mid-August.
This meant that all the traffic which was staged for the reopening had to operate via Great Falls, but there were only two Great Falls crews at Laurel to handle the traffic, and it would take the best part of a day to get more deadheaded to Laurel and rested. Out of desperation (and ingenuity), the yard at Laurel put three Laurel-Pasco merchandise trains together. All told the train was almost 20,000 tons and about 21,000 feet in length, with 5 locomotives in a 2X2X1 configuration. The train operated through to Shelby like that (320 miles) where additional traffic was added and was split into three separate trains. (Believe it or not, consideration was given to operating the thing through to Pasco; It wouldn't've fit anywhere, but the power was sufficient. In the end, with all the detouring traffic, it was decided that was just too crazy.)
I can imagine that similar situations have occurred elsewhere resulting in spontaneous and creative lengthy trains.
--Mark Meyer
Vermontanan2 Murphy Siding How long are the longest freight trains commonly being run now? I’d gauge our local grain trains to be about 1-1/4 miles long. You're correct. In South Dakota, shuttle grain train (110 cars or so) is about 7,000 feet long, including power. BNSF routinely operates stack trains out of Southern California to Chicago at 12,500 feet or so; It will also combined loaded coal trains between Alliance and Lincoln and Mandan to Superior be well over 14,000 feet. Similarly, loaded 110-car unit grain trains are combined at Minot to operate through to Pasco, and empties trains are combined at Auburn, WA to operate through to Laurel. I suspect that the actual longest train ever operated in the U.S. is not specifically documented, but likely spontaneous. At the end of July, 2009, Montana Rail Link's Mullan Tunnel collapsed, rendering its main line out of service for about a week. Trains detoured, mostly via Great Falls, Montana. The day it was supposed to open about a week later (early August), there were numerous trains staged at Laurel and west in anticipation of the reopening. Then came the news: A new collapse and this was a big one. The line was about of service until mid-August. This meant that all the traffic which was staged for the reopening had to operate via Great Falls, but there were only two Great Falls crews at Laurel to handle the traffic, and it would take the best part of a day to get more deadheaded to Laurel and rested. Out of desperation (and ingenuity), the yard at Laurel put three Laurel-Pasco merchandise trains together. All told the train was almost 20,000 tons and about 21,000 feet in length, with 5 locomotives in a 2X2X1 configuration. The train operated through to Shelby like that (320 miles) where additional traffic was added and was split into three separate trains. (Believe it or not, consideration was given to operating the thing through to Pasco; It wouldn't've fit anywhere, but the power was sufficient. In the end, with all the detouring traffic, it was decided that was just too crazy.) I can imagine that similar situations have occurred elsewhere resulting in spontaneous and creative lengthy trains. --Mark Meyer
Murphy Siding In an instance like that, would the train have been allowed to run at track speed, or restricted to something slower? Watching a 4 mile long train go by at 20 mph would make for a lot of train watching.
In an instance like that, would the train have been allowed to run at track speed, or restricted to something slower? Watching a 4 mile long train go by at 20 mph would make for a lot of train watching.
Track speed (maximum 49 MPH). I was actually disappointed it didn't go all the way to Pasco, but having once been a train dispatcher, I knew better.....
A point of some personal interest-"How long is that train?" Around here, that question mostly pertains to the BNSF (area south of Wichia) UPR's (OKT sub Harrington,Ks./Wwichta and El Reno,OK. is West by about 10 mi.(?)
More and more often,these days; Much of BNSF's traffic seems to be a rising number of those so-called." land barges". Pretty obviously, they can be identified by copious power-on head-end, in middle DPU's and some even will have units at the rear DPU's. Sometimes those numbers of units BNSF dispatches can be amazing.
Having once having lived in, and still visiting family in Southeast Kansas, at Parsons. It always seemed that the UPRR never dispatched(?) anything that had what would have amounted to 'excess power'(?) The comparisons are staggering between the two railroads. IMHO (differences in ownership ?)
Back to those 'Land Barges.' Many, by just looking at them, passing seem to indicate that they have been a pair opf trains 'mated together', bound by a common destination? Front half might be a 'mixed' train at the mid train DPU's might be followed by an empy string of returning tank cars. Another might be a pair of grain hoppers (ie: a grain worm?) and so-on, like that.
SF brkmn who lives around this area, and used to work up in Wichita, has said that there have been some of these trains that have reached the (length?) at of (appr(?)15000 '. I would guess that is probably right since he worked for the railroad (?) There have been some really long trains going both directions between Here and Wellington.
Train lengths can really vary by types of car(s) being towed. All boxcar, all tanks, all hopper depending on type of ladding. Iron ore, coal, cement, grain, etc. So umber of cars can be deceiving.
blue streak 1Train lengths can really vary by types of car(s) being towed. All boxcar, all tanks, all hopper depending on type of ladding. Iron ore, coal, cement, grain, etc. So umber of cars can be deceiving.
Remember - rail management's view is that if something, anything can be done one time - then it should be done all the time. If you managed to operate a 20K foot train then all trains should be 20K feet.
BaltACD blue streak 1 Train lengths can really vary by types of car(s) being towed. All boxcar, all tanks, all hopper depending on type of ladding. Iron ore, coal, cement, grain, etc. So umber of cars can be deceiving. Remember - rail management's view is that if something, anything can be done one time - then it should be done all the time. If you managed to operate a 20K foot train then all trains should be 20K feet.
blue streak 1 Train lengths can really vary by types of car(s) being towed. All boxcar, all tanks, all hopper depending on type of ladding. Iron ore, coal, cement, grain, etc. So umber of cars can be deceiving.
CN tried building a over 25,000' intermodal train in western Alberta last fall. It had several DP remote consists but they couldn't get all of them to link together properly so the traffic left as two trains, one of which was only 14,000'. Apparently they wanted to try it again but then the B.C. floods and the annual surprise of winter showed up, so nothing further has happened yet.
I think I saw a triple loaded sand train once, I was off duty and happened to see one go by with two mid-train DP remote consists of two units each, which is very unusual for us. I didn't count the cars, but a 300 car sand train with six units would still only be 14,000' and some of our double grain trains are that long, so I could see it happening.
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