Railfanning along Cardinal route in WV

[Lithonia Operator]

We are now pretty heavy into planning our June trip, and making reservations. Our Amtrak parts are booked. (BTW, we tried to book online, jumped thru all the hoops; then when it was time to click Complete Purchase, it froze up. Tried three times, struck out. BUT, when we got hold of a humanoid, he could have have nicer, more professional, or more efficient. Then we made a change by phone, and that young woman was just as good as that guy was. So just forget the damn website!)

Anyway, we are going to spend five nights in the New River Gorge area. In RR terms, we will be poking around between Charleston and White Sulphur Springs.

I'm up for any suggestions for RR photo locations. I tend to prefer man-made stuff, so I'm mainly interested in places with interesting stuff trackside. It doesn't have to be directly RR related, but it needs to be old, maybe funky, Americana. And of course I'm most interested in any railroad-related stuff.

But locations which feature great natural settings will interest me too.

I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions.

And, Balt, how many freights will run each day? Hopefully some in daylight.

[BaltACD]

Lithonia Operator

And, Balt, how many freights will run each day? Hopefully some in daylight.

New River and the area you are talking about was not part of my territory.  This is historically C&O territory and it was assigned to the Florence Division in CSX.  In the past this was a route for coal moving to Tidewater and empties returning to the mines.  How much general freight traffic was handled - I have no idea.

[Overmod]

Pretty sure C&O 614 is still in Clifton Forge...

[chatanuga]

When I've been down that way, I love to visit Thurmond.  Several buildings, including the station are still there, and there can be some surprises that show up like on my last trip when I got to see a CSX rail train unloading rail, something I've never seen in real life.  On another trip, a coal train came up the branch to wait for an eastbound tanker train along with a westbound intermodal.  While waiting, I was able to get a great picture of the station with the head end of both trains on either side of it.  Thurmond is also one of the main filming locations of the 1987 movie Matewan.

Kevin

[MMLDelete]

Thanks, chatanuga! I WILL go there. Guaranteed. 

Nice videos! Good camera work.

[VerMontanan]

On December 27, 2020, the New River Gorge National Park and Preserve became the nation’s 63^rd national park, and it was about time.  The new park includes the area from near the New River Gorge bridge (3rd highest in the U.S.) on U.S. Highway 19 to around Hinton, and includes what were two very popular West Virginia State Parks, Grandview and Babcock.  And, of course, the CSX (ex-C&O) main line follows the river the entire way.

 

The first thing you need to know is that you won’t be “chasing” any trains.  Track speed is relatively high, and other than just east of Charleston, most of the parallel roads are speed restricted.  By the time you’re actually in the gorge, parallel roads are few and not great.  Example: Thurmond to Prince.  Only 11 miles by railroad, but 19 by highway because one must climb out of the gorge and drop back into it.  Yes, there is a “direct” road: McKendree Road – a turkey track at best, and not be attempted if you’re skittish, inebriated, or if it is snowy or wet.  But I’ve been stupid enough to do it more than once.  The foliage is so thick that views of the railroad are intermittent at best.

 

Another thing you will need are good maps.  The area is continuously mountainous, and I would imagine the cell phone coverage can be less than great away from cities and down in the gorge.

 

I would suggest starting out in Charleston one day and head east.  The state capitol building is not to be missed as it is one of the most impressive in the country and is well-situated along the Kanawha River.

Departing Charleston, you can choose to follow either side of the river.  The ex-C&O CSX/Amtrak line is on the south side and WV highway 61.  The better road is US 60 along the ex-NYC, ex-NS now Watco Kanawha River Railroad on the north side of the river.  Obviously, the CSX line is going to have more railroad traffic, but going through all the small towns along US 60 (like Belle and Smithers) is quite interesting and one can see evidence that this far-flung ex-NYC branch line had more than its share of industry back in the day – and that there is still some today.

 

I-64/I-77 also follows the river east of Charleston, first on the north side of the river, then the south, and pulls away from it at Chelyan.  On the CSX side of the river just west of Montgomery is Handley, the one-time site of a fairly important C&O yard, though there is little evidence of that, now.  Montgomery got a new Amtrak station in October 2020, though it looks like a bus stop.  If you’re on the Montgomery side of the river, I would suggest crossing to Smithers so you can see the large silicon plant at Alloy, which is just west of Deepwater, a yard that was the interchange between Norfolk and Western and New York Central; now it’s between the Kanawha River (railroad) and NS.  Actually, it is Deepwater Bridge, and there’s a relatively impressive bridge (N&W/NS) across the Kanawha River.  Your tax dollars at work, this is also the end of navigation (from the Ohio River) on the Kanawha.  (The last lock and dam is London, near Handley.)

 

The reason navigation ends at Deepwater is that just upstream is Kanawha Falls.  If you’re still on the south side of the river (and the road is not the best), you will need to cross it just west of Kanawha Falls and get on U.S. 60.  The CSX main stays on the south side of the river, and the ex-NYC branch is on the north side.  The ex-NYC track was still in place several years ago when I was last there, but it was not included in the Watco transaction, nor did it show on the NS corporate map.  The track was the NYC link to the Nicholas, Fayette, and Greenbrier Railroad, basically a joint NYC-C&O operation from the area around Gauley Bridge through Rainelle to Meadow Creek.  CSX still operates the southern end.  Also at Kanawha Falls is the Glen Ferris Inn, which is pretty cool.  Right along U.S. 60. 

 

Gauley Bridge is where the Gauley and New Rivers join to create the Kanawha.  The CSX line is on the south side of the New and the ex-NYC line follows the Gauley, and there’s evidence of a C&O connection to the NYC line in Gauley Bridge.  Stay on U.S. 60, which is exceptionally curvy between here and Ansted.  Just beyond Gauley Bridge, check out Cathedral Falls on the left.  The highway is high above the New River at this point.  Note the junction to WV 16.  Stay on U.S. 60, but know that if you take WV16, you will eventually cross the New River at Cotton Hill, where the ex-C&O station still stands.  (It was the stop for Fayetteville.)

 

Continuing east on U.S. 60, you come to the absolute best place for train photographs along the line:  The overlook at Hawk’s Nest State Park.  Below along the river, the two main track CSX main line splits with one track on each side of the river, and visible is the bridge.  Very easy to find photos of this on line.  If you want to drop into the gorge here to take photos by the bridge, you can.  In season, you can take a tram from the lodge, which is just beyond the overlook.  But, you can drive there on a really interesting road from downtown Ansted.  The river is to the south of Ansted, but to get to the road, you turn north to an access road that goes through a short tunnel under U.S. 60 that leads to the mostly single-lane unpaved and not-recommended-for-inclement-weather road to the bottom.  The area at the bottom is part of Hawk’s Nest, and it is the terminus of the tram from the lodge. 

 

If you take a photo of the eastbound Cardinal at Hawk’s Nest, that’s pretty much your only shot at it unless you go overland via U.S. 60 to Ronceverte or Alderson or White Sulphur Springs.  Hard to make any good time on West Virginia’s curvy roads unless it’s the Interstate.

 

The next stop should be the New River Gorge bridge.  With a good map, you can take shortcut from near Ansted, but it’s best just to stay on U.S. 60 east to the junction of U.S. 19, which is the road over the big bridge.  You will want to drive over the bridge just to say you did it, but a good diversion into the gorge is the Fayette Station Road: https://www.nps.gov/neri/planyourvisit/fayette-station-road.htm

The Fayette Station road takes you underneath the big bridge, but also to the bottom of the gorge where you cross the CSX main line, one track on either side of the New River.  Once you’re back to the top and get back on U.S. 19, continue south on it through Fayetteville and Oak Hill to Glen Jean and get on Fayette County Road 25 for Thurmond, another must-see location accessed by a joint rail-road bridge over the New River.  Thurmond of course is the location of its iconic ex-C&O station, now a National Park visitors center.

https://www.nps.gov/neri/learn/historyculture/thurmond.htm

Thurmond was where the 1987 film “Matewan” was filmed.

 

From Thurmond, the next must-see location is the ex-C&O/Amtrak station in Prince.  As stated earlier, McKendree road is direct, but iffy.  Best to backtrack to Glen Jean, then go to Mount Hope, and highways WV 61 and 41 to Prince.  The giant Chessie-The-Cat in the flooring of the art-deco depot shouldn’t be missed.  Continue east on WV 41 about 18 miles to Babcock State Park, now part of the new national park.  The must-see thing here is the Glade Creek Grist Mill, a true West Virginia icon.  Very pretty in the fall (as is the whole area), and yes, the mill still works.

 

From Babcock, backtrack south on WV 41 to the hamlet of Danese, then take Fayette County road 31 to Meadow Bridge where you’ll encounter the CSX branch that was C&O’s southern connection to the Nicholas, Fayette, and Greenbrier.  From Meadow Bridge, take county roads 24 and 7 through Claypool to Meadow Creek, where the branch line meets the CSX/Amtrak main line.  The road parallels the railroad south to Sandstone, and junction with Interstate Highway 64.  This area of the Interstate was one of the last of the original interstate highways to be completed due to the huge cuts and high bridges necessary.  Get on I-64 west at Sandstone exit 138 and proceed west 9 miles to exit 129, and go north on Raleigh County route 9 to Grandview State Park, which is also now part of the national park.  Grandview is appropriately-named.  The view is fantastic, including getting to see to the bottom of the New River Gorge, and the community of Quinnimont on the CSX main line, just east of Prince (you’d go by it on WV 41).  Return to I-64.

 

Back on I-64, you can go west less than 10 miles to Beckley, where hotels and restaurants are plentiful;  It’s also hard to believe that Beckley is only about 60 miles from Charleston via the West Virginia Turnpike (I-64/I-77).  Also from the Grandview exit, it’s only about 60 miles east on I-64 to White Sulphur Springs.

 

But you can follow the railroad from Sandstone to White Sulphur Springs.  From the Grandview exit, proceed back east to Sandstone, exit 138, and then take WV 20 south to the CSX crew change point of Hinton, also the terminus of the Collis P. Huntington NRHS fall foliage excursions.  Stay on the east side of the New River going south out of Hinton to get on WV Highway 3.  South of Hinton, highway 3 and CSX leave the New River, and strike out for Virginia following the Greenbrier River.  Don’t miss the Legend of John Henry monument at Great Bend Tunnel near Talcott.  Alderson has a cute ex-CSX Amtrak station.  Change to WV highway 63 at Alderson, and proceed east along the Greenbrier River and CSX main line (kind of, it’s out of sight much of the way) to Ronceverte, where the C&O station (not an Amtrak stop) still stands.  At Ronceverte, take U.S. 219 to Lewisburg where you rejoin U.S. 60 from Ansted.  Take it east 10 miles to White Sulphur Springs and its iconic Amtrak station across the street from the even more iconic Greenbrier (luxury resort and bunker).

 

And, yes, it’s pretty much impossible to see everything in a day, but you’re going to be there longer than that….

[MMLDelete]

Mark, that is simply awesome! Thanks so much.   So much great information!

We are going to be based at a VRBO rental in Fayetteville. Yeah, I'd pretty much determined there wouldn't be any chasing going on. My wife will be thrilled at that.

Thanks again, Mark. Wow.

[BaltACD]

Remember driving US60 before I-64 was built.  As I recollect between Charlottesville and Charleston there wasn't a straight stretch of road much over 100 yards in length.  Was driving a AMC Gremlin with the 'fast' manual steering - my shoulders got a workout.

[chatanuga]

I'll agree that you won't be chasing trains.  If you want to see what the roads off the interstate are like, here's the drive from I-77 to Thurmond.

Second to last time I went down there, I came around a curve, and there were three large wild turkeys ambling across the road, ignoring my horn.

The drive is even more fun at night.

Kevin

[Overmod]

Interesting part of drive starts at about 11:45.

[MidlandMike]

VerMontanan

The next stop should be the New River Gorge bridge.  With a good map, you can take shortcut from near Ansted, but it’s best just to stay on U.S. 60 east to the junction of U.S. 19, which is the road over the big bridge.  You will want to drive over the bridge just to say you did it, but a good diversion into the gorge is the Fayette Station Road

I toured the area about 35 years ago, and my recollection is that I walked across the bridge.  Looking at different websites, it seems that is no longer legal.

[VerMontanan]

MidlandMike

I toured the area about 35 years ago, and my recollection is that I walked across the bridge.  Looking at different websites, it seems that is no longer legal.

Well, you can always walk across it on Bridge Day:

https://officialbridgeday.com/

or just underneath it:

https://bridgewalk.com/

 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

It is an impressive location.  I remember back in 1982 getting pictures of the bridge from the state park overlook and also shooting the C&O a few hundred feet below me.

[Backshop]

Back in the early 80s, I went whitewater rafting on the New River.  We pulled out right after going under the Fayetteville bridge.  It was hard being in a group of "regular" people and not getting excited when a CSX freight went by with a B&O SD9 in the consist.

[MMLDelete]

I wasn't sure I was familiar with the SD9, so I looked it up.

That's a very cool engine! Maybe I'd never seen a picture of one before. ?? As always, I prefer high hood, short nose forward.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_SD9#/media/File:AWW_203_EMD_SD9.jpg

I love the nose shape. This engine immediately moves to near the top of my favorites among old road-switchers. (My favorite is te Also RS-11.)

[adkrr64]

Lithonia Operator

I love the nose shape. This engine immediately moves to near the top of my favorites among old road-switchers. (My favorite is te Also RS-11.)

I agree. There is something about those high hood Alcos that give them a very muscular appearance. 

[chatanuga]

VerMontanan

 

 

MidlandMike

I toured the area about 35 years ago, and my recollection is that I walked across the bridge.  Looking at different websites, it seems that is no longer legal.

 

 

 

Well, you can always walk across it on Bridge Day:

https://officialbridgeday.com/

or just underneath it:

https://bridgewalk.com/

 

 

A while back they did some work needed on the road side of the bridge at Thurmond.  They added four little platforms along the bridge, allowing anybody walking across places to duck into in case of vehicles coming across the bridge, which isn't very frequent.  Last time I was down there in 2019, I went across the bridge, getting some nice pictures and video from out on the bridge.  I also noticed that previous signs prohibitting pedestrians on the bridge were gone.

Kevin

[spicetruck]

Nice description and narrative. I am planning to do ride the Cardinal from Charleston to White Sulfur Springs or further out to Culpeper, then back after a weekend. Mostly want to see parts of WV in daytime from a train !