Where are the BNSF's dispatching locations? Was the Kansas City location consolidated into FTW? Is the New Westminster office still in Canada?
I have lost track of the locations after I retired from the BNSF in 2004.
Ed Burns
Ed:
So far as I am aware, they have the main dispatch center on the Fort Worth campus and a satellite/backup location further north at Alliance Yard. The location at Alliance was created after Covid hit in case an outbreak occurred within the main building.
I seem to recall that there was a special dispatching unit at San Bernardino to handle Cajon Pass. Anyone know about or remember that?
How did hte Texas storms affect BNSF dispatching ability?
Juniata Man Ed: So far as I am aware, they have the main dispatch center on the Fort Worth campus and a satellite/backup location further north at Alliance Yard. The location at Alliance was created after Covid hit in case an outbreak occurred within the main building.
The backup dispatching center has been around for a long time, to provide redundancy in case of a major problem at the main campus. A couple years ago, they moved everyone there for a some number of months while they renovated the regular NOC. They had moved back before Covid.
Then when Covid hit, they moved about half of the operation to the backup location, in order to spread people out and reduce transmission risk, and I believe that is still how they're set up today.
Dan
diningcar I seem to recall that there was a special dispatching unit at San Bernardino to handle Cajon Pass. Anyone know about or remember that?
Yes San Berdoo still has its disaptching office. From what I've read they handle all territory in California.
Can't speak directly for BNSF, however, the CSX Dispatching Centers were all equipped with heavy duty 'Uninteruptable Power Sources' - heavy duty diesel generators with 1500 gallon fuel tanks for each generator. The equipment was tested weekly - hot, cold, rain, snow. Fuel tanks were kept within 100 gallons of full.
I doubt BNSF left their Dispatching Center to the vagarities of the PPP Texas power grid.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
The problem with the dispatch centers may not be at the dispatch centers.
Any data relay site that doesn't have similar backup power will put a *** in the armor, as they say.
I would presume that they have addressed that - there's enough severe weather through most of BNSF's territory that they likely would.
On a personal level, my cable service uses a booster box on a pole not far from my home. If commercial power goes out, so does the booster box, cutting my Internet even though I have a UPS on the modem and wifi here at the house...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Didn't realize the backup location had been around that long Dan. Thank you for the clarification!
dpeltier Juniata Man Ed: So far as I am aware, they have the main dispatch center on the Fort Worth campus and a satellite/backup location further north at Alliance Yard. The location at Alliance was created after Covid hit in case an outbreak occurred within the main building. The backup dispatching center has been around for a long time, to provide redundancy in case of a major problem at the main campus. A couple years ago, they moved everyone there for a some number of months while they renovated the regular NOC. They had moved back before Covid. Then when Covid hit, they moved about half of the operation to the backup location, in order to spread people out and reduce transmission risk, and I believe that is still how they're set up today. Dan
All the backup power in the world does not matter if your people cannot get to them.
I know most of the telcom ops centers have some sort of dormatory facilities as well.
When I worked for the US government, the entire data center went down. One of our UPS went down and took the others with it. Not supposed to happen, BUT it did. Mainfram computers do not like that. A week later, we were still having problems iwth them. The midrange and PC's were fine once we brought all of them up.
During the Chessie System era, the System main frame computers were installed on the 12th Floor of the B&O Building at 2 North Charles Street in downtown Baltimore. The power feed was directly from Baltimore Gas & Electric who had their main offices in the next block North.
During the construction of the Baltimore Subway (such as it is) the main feeds to the B&O building were cut accidently by construction equipment. For whatever the reasons it took almost a week to get power restored to the computers. There was no UPS to back up the power feed. Much data was lost forever as it never got captured in the first place. The railroad operated, the back room business of the railroad is what suffered.
There is also a satellite facility in the Houston Area (Pearland IIRC) that had has it's ups and downs after the UP meltdown and coordination between Class 1's.
All:
Thanks for the information. Does anyone know if the New Westminster BC office is still there or did it also move to FTW?
mudchicken There is also a satellite facility in the Houston Area (Pearland IIRC) that had has it's ups and downs after the UP meltdown and coordination between Class 1's.
Still there with UP and BNSF dispatchers: Spring, Texas
Mark Meyer
NP Eddie Does anyone know if the New Westminster BC office is still there or did it also move to FTW?
Does anyone know if the New Westminster BC office is still there or did it also move to FTW?
Still there at New Westminster. The Canadians won't allow track within Canada to be controlled by those outside the country. (I imagine there are small exceptions to this, but this is the overall reason they're still there.) The employees became train dispatchers around 1980 or so, and prior to that the territory was handled out of the BN Seattle office (with the control operators for the CTC machine in New Westminster becoming the train dispatchers). CN took over the main line operation (from BNSF) from the Fraser River Bridge to Vancouver in 2006.
Mark:
Please call Ed Burns at 1 763 234 9306 about some people you and I worked with as this would not be proper over this reply.
NP Eddie you should PM VerMontanan your number instead of posting it here..
Good thought I should have given him my e-mail instead.
Thanks.
Ed
My apology--please e mail me at enburns@comcast.net.
The Kancks office closed like three yrs ago I believe during the summer. Employees were given a full moving package & allowance but a contract had to be signed to remain @ Ft. Worth for I want to say three yrs, or the allownace would have to be paid back.
Prior to that, it was basically the same workers who handled the territories and you got to know them, espicially in phone chats. This has become a good method of selling copies of the two Santa Fe books I have authored.
Ever since the combo took effect, there is floating in/out of workers, using their bumps which creates a large amount of turnover on many territories. A large share of dispatchers are former trainmasters or crew callers as the latter craft has been cut a large percentage @ Topeka.
SFbrkmnThe Kancks office closed like three yrs ago I believe during the summer. Employees were given a full moving package & allowance but a contract had to be signed to remain @ Ft. Worth for I want to say three yrs, or the allownace would have to be paid back. Prior to that, it was basically the same workers who handled the territories and you got to know them, espicially in phone chats. This has become a good method of selling copies of the two Santa Fe books I have authored. Ever since the combo took effect, there is floating in/out of workers, using their bumps which creates a large amount of turnover on many territories. A large share of dispatchers are former trainmasters or crew callers as the latter craft has been cut a large percentage @ Topeka.
I have no idea of the BNSF labor agreements or their application to their Dispatchers.
When CSX created their Centrailized Dispatching in the late 1980's the dispatching was brought to Jacksonvile on a division by division basis. Initially, the territories remained the same as they were when the dispatching was done in the field. That didn't last long. As the Dispatchers gained familarity with the CADS computer system and its operation management began combining the various dispatching territories within the Division - those whose seniority would not permit them to remain on their former Division could exercise their seniority to any job in the Center that their seniority permitted. (Note - When a Division ws motved, only a percentage of the Dispatchers would follow their jobs to Jacksonville - generally 60% or less). Dispatchers who didn't follow their jobs to Jacksonville could either retire or exercised their 'other craft' seniority.
The architecture of the CADS system gave CSX the ability to define Subdivisions in any manner they desired as well as combining Subdivisions into a Train Dispatcher's territory in any manner they desired. The Dispatcher territories could be changed on a trick by trick basis.
For the first several years at Jacksonville the make up of the Divisions and their territory was relatively static, however, as the older Dispatchers that had followed their job began retiring (in effect, they got CSX to make their move to Florida for retirement) the need for 'new hires' to fill the vacancies. A training curriculum was set up at Jacksonville for the 'new hires'. The first several classes of 'new hires' were actually employees from other crafts within the company who bid for the opportunity to go through Dispatcher training. This training was ultimately tranferred to the REDI operation in Atlanta which EHH terminated in 2017.
Adding or subtracting territory from a Dispatcher job gives them the opportunity to exercise their seniority to any other job held by a junior employee. Employees want different jobs for a wide variety of reasons, the territory, the rest days, the hours - whatever works best for THEM.
About 1995 the top officer became a individual who loved changing territories - seemingly every month he would take territory off one Desk and put it on another Desk - thus giving the incumbents on each Desk (1-2-3 & Relief) full displacement rights. During this time probably 1/3 of the employees in the center were in the process of exercising their seniority. (Note - when bumped to a new territory the employee has to be trained and qualified on the new territory before the incumbent of that territory can exercise his seniority - and on and on).
The individual that created the above chaos, then decided to eliminate 'Division Extra Lists' and formed a System Extra List. This was done inviolation of the Dispatcher's Agreement. That being said it took about 9 months for the Grievence to work its way through channels to be adjudicated as a violation and the various Division Extra Boards reestablished, however, when that was done, not all the Extra Dispatchers that were qualified on a particular Division bid back to that Division's Extra List.
FUN TIMES - lots of money to be made thanks to the Bone Head.
A friend of mine was a dispatcher at Selkirk until they finally got moved to Jax just a few years ago.
As Balt says - the territories got shuffled. A lot. I don't recall all of the changes, especially as they applied to the Chicago Line, but I know that the St Lawrence sub went from the NE desk, to ND, and I believe it's currently NC.
My friend recently retired, but I'd hear him on the radio here from time to time, depending on which desk was dispatching this line.,
BaltACD Interesting story there. BN dispatchers are unionized w/ATDA while SF positions are salaried management positions that changed I would say around 30 yrs ago--don't know exact yr but it was prior to the 1995 merger SFbrkmn The Kancks office closed like three yrs ago I believe during the summer. Employees were given a full moving package & allowance but a contract had to be signed to remain @ Ft. Worth for I want to say three yrs, or the allownace would have to be paid back. Prior to that, it was basically the same workers who handled the territories and you got to know them, espicially in phone chats. This has become a good method of selling copies of the two Santa Fe books I have authored. Ever since the combo took effect, there is floating in/out of workers, using their bumps which creates a large amount of turnover on many territories. A large share of dispatchers are former trainmasters or crew callers as the latter craft has been cut a large percentage @ Topeka. I have no idea of the BNSF labor agreements or their application to their Dispatchers. When CSX created their Centrailized Dispatching in the late 1980's the dispatching was brought to Jacksonvile on a division by division basis. Initially, the territories remained the same as they were when the dispatching was done in the field. That didn't last long. As the Dispatchers gained familarity with the CADS computer system and its operation management began combining the various dispatching territories within the Division - those whose seniority would not permit them to remain on their former Division could exercise their seniority to any job in the Center that their seniority permitted. (Note - When a Division ws motved, only a percentage of the Dispatchers would follow their jobs to Jacksonville - generally 60% or less). Dispatchers who didn't follow their jobs to Jacksonville could either retire or exercised their 'other craft' seniority. The architecture of the CADS system gave CSX the ability to define Subdivisions in any manner they desired as well as combining Subdivisions into a Train Dispatcher's territory in any manner they desired. The Dispatcher territories could be changed on a trick by trick basis. For the first several years at Jacksonville the make up of the Divisions and their territory was relatively static, however, as the older Dispatchers that had followed their job began retiring (in effect, they got CSX to make their move to Florida for retirement) the need for 'new hires' to fill the vacancies. A training curriculum was set up at Jacksonville for the 'new hires'. The first several classes of 'new hires' were actually employees from other crafts within the company who bid for the opportunity to go through Dispatcher training. This training was ultimately tranferred to the REDI operation in Atlanta which EHH terminated in 2017. Adding or subtracting territory from a Dispatcher job gives them the opportunity to exercise their seniority to any other job held by a junior employee. Employees want different jobs for a wide variety of reasons, the territory, the rest days, the hours - whatever works best for THEM. About 1995 the top officer became a individual who loved changing territories - seemingly every month he would take territory off one Desk and put it on another Desk - thus giving the incumbents on each Desk (1-2-3 & Relief) full displacement rights. During this time probably 1/3 of the employees in the center were in the process of exercising their seniority. (Note - when bumped to a new territory the employee has to be trained and qualified on the new territory before the incumbent of that territory can exercise his seniority - and on and on). The individual that created the above chaos, then decided to eliminate 'Division Extra Lists' and formed a System Extra List. This was done inviolation of the Dispatcher's Agreement. That being said it took about 9 months for the Grievence to work its way through channels to be adjudicated as a violation and the various Division Extra Boards reestablished, however, when that was done, not all the Extra Dispatchers that were qualified on a particular Division bid back to that Division's Extra List. FUN TIMES - lots of money to be made thanks to the Bone Head.
Interesting story there. BN dispatchers are unionized w/ATDA while SF positions are salaried management positions that changed I would say around 30 yrs ago--don't know exact yr but it was prior to the 1995 merger
SFbrkmn The Kancks office closed like three yrs ago I believe during the summer. Employees were given a full moving package & allowance but a contract had to be signed to remain @ Ft. Worth for I want to say three yrs, or the allownace would have to be paid back. Prior to that, it was basically the same workers who handled the territories and you got to know them, espicially in phone chats. This has become a good method of selling copies of the two Santa Fe books I have authored. Ever since the combo took effect, there is floating in/out of workers, using their bumps which creates a large amount of turnover on many territories. A large share of dispatchers are former trainmasters or crew callers as the latter craft has been cut a large percentage @ Topeka.
Balt,
My recollection was that in the "OLD DAYS" Dispatchers had familiarization days where they rode over the territory they were to dispatch. Am I correct in assuming that no longer is the case?
Electroliner 1935Balt, My recollection was that in the "OLD DAYS" Dispatchers had familiarization days where they rode over the territory they were to dispatch. Am I correct in assuming that no longer is the case?
In the 'olden days' Dispatchers lived very near the territory they dispatched as Dispatcher's Offices were located at the Division Headquarters with the Division limits only being approximately 150 miles distant and in any direction. Road Review was easy and cheap - in the Olden Days.
With today's Centralized Dispatching it is not that simple. CSX Dispatching Center is in Jacksonville with the 'far ends' of the system being Miami, New Orleans, Memphis, St.Louis, Chicago, the Canadian border, Boston. Only one Dispatcher's Desk is local to Jacksonville. Road Review for all other desks requires transportation to/from someplace for the Road Review to take place. Personally, I believe Road Review should take place by riding trains; however the company sees it differently and most Road Review is done by having Dispatchers ride with Roadmasters in hi-rail vehicles over the appropriate territory. From the company perspective more territory can be covered faster at the expense of the Dispatcher seeing first hand how and where trains struggle from a poor dispatching decision.
Road Review was taking place for 'trick' dispatchers as of the time I retired. They would be given paid time to review the territories they dispatched. The being said, the size of a Division in the 21st Century is much larger than it was in 'the olden days'.
When I retired CSX Dispatching was distributed, less than a year after I retired Dispatching was re-centrailized at Jacksonville. With the re-centralization I belive the former ConRail offices at Indianapolis and Selkirk were also moved to Jacksonville. They had remained out of Jacksonville when the ConRail acquisition took place in 1999.
Electroliner 1935 Balt, My recollection was that in the "OLD DAYS" Dispatchers had familiarization days where they rode over the territory they were to dispatch. Am I correct in assuming that no longer is the case?
No, that it not correct, at least at CSX. While road reviews are on a temporary hold, per both the company and the union, due to Covid. They will resume soon. It is in the dispatcher's contract that road reviews must happen, or the dispatcher gets a full roll.
An "expensive model collector"
n012944 what's a full roll? Electroliner 1935 Balt, My recollection was that in the "OLD DAYS" Dispatchers had familiarization days where they rode over the territory they were to dispatch. Am I correct in assuming that no longer is the case? No, that it not correct, at least at CSX. While road reviews are on a temporary hold, per both the company and the union, due to Covid. They will resume soon. It is in the dispatcher's contract that road reviews must happen, or the dispatcher gets a full roll.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding n012944 what's a full roll? Electroliner 1935 Balt, My recollection was that in the "OLD DAYS" Dispatchers had familiarization days where they rode over the territory they were to dispatch. Am I correct in assuming that no longer is the case? No, that it not correct, at least at CSX. While road reviews are on a temporary hold, per both the company and the union, due to Covid. They will resume soon. It is in the dispatcher's contract that road reviews must happen, or the dispatcher gets a full roll.
A 'full roll' is unimpared exercise of seniority to any other job that one's seniority will hold.
Example - Person working BA desk is denied 'Road Review' and becomes entitled to a 'full roll' can exercise his seniority over any junior employee on any other desk within the seniority district. In the case of the Jacksonville Dispatching Center that would be any job on any other Division in the 'round building'.
Under certain circumstance 'restricted displacement' can be authorized; in the case of Jacksonville the displacement could be restricted to jobs on a specific division.
Union contracts are only limited by the thought processes of the individuals involved in negotiating it, for whatever reasons and thoughts they held at the time of negotiation.
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