If their primary objective is what appears to be seasonal passenger service, they will be filing Chapter 11 fairly quickly.
CMP (RGP) made an interesting filing with STB today stating that its primary objective in leasng the Sage-Parkdale segment of the TP line isn't freight but passenger service. The passenger service would consist of service to ski resort workers that reside in the area and "recreational" users. The entire document is available in the "filings" section of the STB website for today, filing no. 301536.
I was lucky enough to visit the Tennessee Pass Line with a group of railway fans from the UK in May 1997 a few months before it closed as a through route. During our visit the line was extremely busy as I believe extra trains were using the line due to trackwork being undertaken over the Sherman Hill route. Despite being a very challenging line with steep grades very long freights were being worked over the line. I can recall one coal train being powered by eleven locos split between the front, centre and rear and the noise it made passing through the canyon south of Minturn was incredible.
One of my main memories of the visit was the rarefied air near the summit tunnel which I believe was at about 10,000 feet. As a reasonably fit forty something man at the time it was a struggle running from the SUV to get a good vantage point to video a heavy east bound freight. Gasping for breath whilst trying to hold the camcorder still was very difficult!
If the line does ever reopen as a through route it will provide fantastic photo opportunities for railfans. I dont know whether I will be able to visit the area again but I have some great memories of the line, loads of photographs and some rather grainy video shot on my very first video camera.
Yes, both the comment on Scott Joplin and the conversion of Berkshires to Northerns referred to Sedalia, MO, which had a significant shop complex of the Missouri Pacific.
That was probably wrote about Sedalia, MO which is near Kansas City, I know Scott Joplin lived in St. Louis for a time as I have toured his house. Never heard of him being in CO. did not know there was a Sedalia in CO.
Boyd Just imagine The BigBoy making a trip through this line.
Just imagine The BigBoy making a trip through this line.
Aw heck, why not!?
Didn't Rio Grande run their articulateds on this line? How much bigger is the Big Boy?
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
Uintah Basin/ Seven County Infrastructure Coalition Filing #300676 from FD-36284 (5/29/20)
"While the Uinta Basin Railway will primarily be used to ship crude oil and fracking sand, shipments are also expected to include agricultural products, pipe, oilfield tubular steel products, building products, industrial materials, and other bulk commodities.24 Fracking sand and crude oil are expected to be shipped in unit trains, while other goods would be shipped in manifest carloads added to crude oil or fracking sand unit trains.25 Separate manifest trains are not expected to be operated on the Uinta Basin Railway.26"
Have not seen anywhere (so far) in the CM&P filings (FD-36471) anything stating a similar idea. The linking came from who?
Regardless, as Falcon48 has already hinted at, good luck when the local NIMBY's encounter the Federal Exemption. That won't end well. The real estate developer money will continue to flow under the table to fuel the nonsense that already includes the MagLev ski train, massive animal overpasses and the cut & cover tunnel for I-70 through Vail, and Avon. CDOT is already broke and witless in the railroad arena - this just adds to the list if it gets any traction. Maybe Vail & Avon/Beaver Creek might yet someday wake-up and smell the coffee? (reality is optional up there, political backlash coming when local government wastes $$$ on a lost cause?)
My understanding is that RG Pacific was associated with the Uintah Basin oil field projected rail line. In today's NewsWire article about local opposition to reopening the TP line they said:
A railroad representative told the newspaper that Colorado, Midland & Pacific “has no plan, no intention, and no means to operate oil trains” on the route.
https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2021/01/18-digest-colorado-town-will-help-fund-legal-challenge-to-tennessee-pass-revival
That's essentially what's likely to happen. The only transaction that's on STB's table right now is the RGP transaction. Unless I've missed something, there's no competing transaction from CP currently before STB. CP's prior "forced sale" transaction was previously dismissed by STB and has never been refiled. CP is just whining about the RGP transaction. Probably not a winning strategy.
GERALD L MCFARLANE JR That's essentially what's likely to happen. The only transaction that's on STB's table right now is the RGP transaction. Unless I've missed something, there's no competing tyransaction from CP currently before STB. CP's prior "forced sale" transaction was previously dismissed by STB and has never been refiled. CP is just whining about the RGP transaction. Probably not a winning strategy. Falcon48 The "court" that will rule on this is the U.S. Surface Transportation Board (a Federal regulatory agency). The choice is between a transction that the current owner (UP) is willing to make (with RGP) and a transaction the current owner doesn't want to make (with Colorado Pacific). Given the existing regulatory statutes and STB's longstanding policies, the odds on favorite is the RGP transaction (particularly since STB turned down CP's earlier proposal). Technically this is US government not in action as the STB should've dismissed CP's second claim and filing the minute that UP/RGP announced an agreement. CP has no statutory basis for their claim now.
That's essentially what's likely to happen. The only transaction that's on STB's table right now is the RGP transaction. Unless I've missed something, there's no competing tyransaction from CP currently before STB. CP's prior "forced sale" transaction was previously dismissed by STB and has never been refiled. CP is just whining about the RGP transaction. Probably not a winning strategy.
Falcon48 The "court" that will rule on this is the U.S. Surface Transportation Board (a Federal regulatory agency). The choice is between a transction that the current owner (UP) is willing to make (with RGP) and a transaction the current owner doesn't want to make (with Colorado Pacific). Given the existing regulatory statutes and STB's longstanding policies, the odds on favorite is the RGP transaction (particularly since STB turned down CP's earlier proposal).
Technically this is US government not in action as the STB should've dismissed CP's second claim and filing the minute that UP/RGP announced an agreement. CP has no statutory basis for their claim now.
Falcon48The "court" that will rule on this is the U.S. Surface Transportation Board (a Federal regulatory agency). The choice is between a transction that the current owner (UP) is willing to make (with RGP) and a transaction the current owner doesn't want to make (with Colorado Pacific). Given the existing regulatory statutes and STB's longstanding policies, the odds on favorite is the RGP transaction (particularly since STB turned down CP's earlier proposal).
The "court" that will rule on this is the U.S. Surface Transportation Board (a Federal regulatory agency). The choice is between a transction that the current owner (UP) is willing to make (with RGP) and a transaction the current owner doesn't want to make (with Colorado Pacific). Given the existing regulatory statutes and STB's longstanding policies, the odds on favorite is the RGP transaction (particularly since STB turned down CP's earlier proposal).
grvtrains Hello! why was this particular line chosen for reactivation? Which factors played an important role in pulling it out of hibernation? Are there some set of measures which are implemented to ensure a successful reopening/reactivation of a railway line? I am researching about successfully reactivated railway tracks and trying to figure out the boundary conditions for such tracks (viz. inactive duration, track condition, route length, demand, reason for closure, etc) and measures implemented to ensure its reactivation and sustainable operations ahead. Any help or lead would be greatly appreciated! Sincerely Gaurav
Hello!
why was this particular line chosen for reactivation? Which factors played an important role in pulling it out of hibernation? Are there some set of measures which are implemented to ensure a successful reopening/reactivation of a railway line?
I am researching about successfully reactivated railway tracks and trying to figure out the boundary conditions for such tracks (viz. inactive duration, track condition, route length, demand, reason for closure, etc) and measures implemented to ensure its reactivation and sustainable operations ahead. Any help or lead would be greatly appreciated!
Sincerely
Gaurav
IT seems that you have picked a couple of topics on this FORUM that have been discussed topics over some time (Years,even ?)
1.) Saluda Grade on the Easter Slope of the mountains of North Carolina. Has been a long runnibng favorite here.
2.) Tennessee Pass in the Colorado Rockies. another topic of favor, and one that in recent months has been a subject of interest.
I would sugest that yoiyu utilize the Forum's Community Search feature to research both areas of interest.
Even though Saluda Grade has had some interest, my guess, is that as a through route, it is sort of doomed due to various land movements on its ROW; [Read to re-create the through route, it will take a ton of money to mitigate various colapses of the ROW.]
MudChicken's comments on the current state of Tennessee Pass are 'informed', and timely. Seems that its 'status' is subject to the legal rule of lawyer v. lawyer and whichever court will rule on the matter's litigation(s) ?
MidlandMike grvtrains why was this particular line chosen for reactivation? Which factors played an important role in pulling it out of hibernation? Are there some set of measures which are implemented to ensure a successful reopening/reactivation of a railway line? The guy from the Colorado Pacific was a real estate heir who got into the ag business. He acquired another near abandoned rail line on the Colorado plains east of Pueblo to preserve service to haul his grain. I guess he figure that if he could run a railroad in the flatlands, what would be the problem in running the higest mountain rail line in the country over the steepest grades. He forced the sale of the other rail line, and he also tried to force the sale of the Tenn Pass line at a bargan basement price. Plus, I am skeptical of a real estate man buying abandoned rail property in Colorado resort country. The Minturn yard alone, where Vail wants to build a new ski base village, probably would be worth the few million he was offering for the entire rail line. The Rio Grande Pacific group I believe is associated with the group proposing to build a new rail line into the Uinta Basin of Utah, and I guess the TP line would give them a shortcut to the Gulf for their oil trains.
grvtrains why was this particular line chosen for reactivation? Which factors played an important role in pulling it out of hibernation? Are there some set of measures which are implemented to ensure a successful reopening/reactivation of a railway line?
The guy from the Colorado Pacific was a real estate heir who got into the ag business. He acquired another near abandoned rail line on the Colorado plains east of Pueblo to preserve service to haul his grain. I guess he figure that if he could run a railroad in the flatlands, what would be the problem in running the higest mountain rail line in the country over the steepest grades. He forced the sale of the other rail line, and he also tried to force the sale of the Tenn Pass line at a bargan basement price. Plus, I am skeptical of a real estate man buying abandoned rail property in Colorado resort country. The Minturn yard alone, where Vail wants to build a new ski base village, probably would be worth the few million he was offering for the entire rail line.
The Rio Grande Pacific group I believe is associated with the group proposing to build a new rail line into the Uinta Basin of Utah, and I guess the TP line would give them a shortcut to the Gulf for their oil trains.
He's got a link to a petition against Rio Grande Pacific on another site.
Jeff
grvtrainswhy was this particular line chosen for reactivation? Which factors played an important role in pulling it out of hibernation? Are there some set of measures which are implemented to ensure a successful reopening/reactivation of a railway line?
Can't see how this would be, in recent years, with the significant rock falls damaging the track and cutting the rail. I thought I'd also seen images of rail paved over at some road crossings around Minturn. Not sure on that...
Mark
Fred M Cain Ah, yes, Sedalia. The town where Scott Joplin's Maple Leaf Rag first became famous. FMC
Ah, yes, Sedalia. The town where Scott Joplin's Maple Leaf Rag first became famous.
FMC
And where 25 Berkshires were converted into high-steppin' Northerns:
https://www.steamlocomotive.com/locobase.php?country=USA&wheel=4-8-4&railroad=mp
Note: To Muddy Feathers:
"... And Sedalia is between Colorado Springs and Denver on the Joint Line. (Corned Fusion)..."
When was it moved out of the State of Missery?
Overmod MP173 We stayed in Saluda and walked around the site of the old yard. Saluda is in North Carolina. I think you mean Salida.
MP173
We stayed in Saluda and walked around the site of the old yard.
Saluda is in North Carolina. I think you mean Salida.
MP173We stayed in Saluda and walked around the site of the old yard.
high railed about every 8-10 weeks, largely for FRA purposes in case they had to open it up for any reason (keep the paper trail intact / note where 213 defects are - but do not necessarily remediate any exceptions found) - Second purpose was to keep the scofflaws at bay (primarilly utilities, drainage and road maintenance activity by the locals - but you also had the Christo (event art) freak show up in there)
I thought I read somewhere where the YouPee was running a speeder over the line a few times a years just to make sure the line doesn't get cut as a through route.
Can anyone verify this?
Regards,
Fred M. Cain
The wife and I were in Colorado a couple of years ago and I explored the line somewhat.
The line south of Leadville does appear to be in decent condition...the rail is in place and no real vegetation growing between rails. The ballast and signals were still in place, giving a very strange vibe. Very sad.
We stayed in Saluda and walked around the site of the old yard. The line east toward Pueblo is in very good shape and was in use at that time.
The drive up to Leadville from Minturn was spectacular but I kept both hands on the wheel and eyes on the road. Would love to spend a day aroudn the tunnel area exploring.
If trains run on that line again, I will venture west from Indiana to watch.
Ed
Google Earth shows in addition to other problems noted, there are large rocks on the tracks south of Minturn near Belden. Also the Belden siding has rock slides, but mostly the siding is covered by a roadway in the old Gilman mine loading area.
Thanks MC. I just took a long Google maps tour to places I've read about but never been to, like Minturn and Dotsero. I always forget how arid Colorado is until I look at satellite images.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
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