SD70Dude Lithonia Operator Jeff, I'm foggy on what exactly the purpose was for your watching the train. Is the idea that if the cut moved, you would radio the other crew, and they could try to chase down the runaway with the engines? Since it's unsafe for you to attempt to stop the train, what's the point of being there? Because the rule says that if he stands there they don't have to apply handbrakes. And if a trainmaster shows up and sees a crew member standing beside the train he cannot accuse them of violating the securement rules.
Lithonia Operator Jeff, I'm foggy on what exactly the purpose was for your watching the train. Is the idea that if the cut moved, you would radio the other crew, and they could try to chase down the runaway with the engines? Since it's unsafe for you to attempt to stop the train, what's the point of being there?
Jeff, I'm foggy on what exactly the purpose was for your watching the train. Is the idea that if the cut moved, you would radio the other crew, and they could try to chase down the runaway with the engines? Since it's unsafe for you to attempt to stop the train, what's the point of being there?
Because the rule says that if he stands there they don't have to apply handbrakes.
And if a trainmaster shows up and sees a crew member standing beside the train he cannot accuse them of violating the securement rules.
Well, that sounds like a dumb, pointless rule, if the man is basically unable to stop a rolling cut.
I liked the suggestion in this thread about using a long brake hose, held by the man, out of harm's way.
Lithonia Operator SD70Dude Lithonia Operator Jeff, I'm foggy on what exactly the purpose was for your watching the train. Is the idea that if the cut moved, you would radio the other crew, and they could try to chase down the runaway with the engines? Since it's unsafe for you to attempt to stop the train, what's the point of being there? Because the rule says that if he stands there they don't have to apply handbrakes. And if a trainmaster shows up and sees a crew member standing beside the train he cannot accuse them of violating the securement rules. Well, that sounds like a dumb, pointless rule, if the man is basically unable to stop a rolling cut. I liked the suggestion in this thread about using a long brake hose, held by the man, out of harm's way.
If you leave the train vented or in emergency you have already accomplished everything opening the brake hose would do.
The rules were written by people who do not understand the reality of how railway equipment works and how accidents actually happen.
If trains rolled away immediately after going into emergency braking we would have runaways every time someone broke a knuckle, pulled a drawbar, or otherwise lost their air out on the road. That simply does not happen, and switching operations are no different.
There is no need for complex or expensive solutions here, only the application of common sense and perhaps some better education on how the air brake system actually works.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
RE: stopping cars that are rolling, you guys are vastly overestimating how well cars accelerate when they are being propelled solely by gravity on a gentle grade, and you are forgetting the ability of trainmen to get on and off moving equipment, though many railways now prohibit that practice except in emergency situations.
While running is itself a rule violation, I found that I can sprint at over 10 mph for short distances when catching cars that someone kicked too hard. If a single employee is standing next to the cars as they start to roll he would apply the nearest handbrake, then get off and run to the next car, and so on. A physically healthy employee could probably apply at least 5 or 6 handbrakes in this manner before the cars reached 10 mph on a gentle grade, and each additional handbrake would lessen the rate of acceleration.
We had an incident like this several years ago in Edmonton, a yard transfer was pulling a bunch of bled off cars (no air through the movement) uphill into a yard when they came apart. With no air to put it in emergency, the tail end portion rolled away for about 2 miles until it passed another yard crew, at which point it was still going slow enough for them to stop it with handbrakes in the manner I described above.
Lithonia Operator Well, that sounds like a dumb, pointless rule, if the man is basically unable to stop a rolling cut.
I don't think that's the intention behind the rule. He's not there to make sure the cars don't roll away. He's there to make sure that the cars aren't left there indefinitely without the brakes being tied down.
If everyone can walk away and do other things without tying the cars down, it greatly increases the chance that they get forgotten about and left there, while the crew goes home - especially if their routine is interrupted and they go home unexpectedly (possibly with a stop at the company restroom to supply urine samples).
Similarly, at least one Class 1 has a rule saying that, in certain circumstances, when a MOW worker opens a mainline switch, he must stay within sight of it the whole time it's open. It's not so that he can restore the switch if he sees a train coming - it's so that he can't walk away to do something else, leaving the switch open, and forget to come back and restore it. Same principle.
I'm not a trainman so I won't weigh in on the overall merits of these handbrake rules, but I'm familiar enough with RR rules generally to recognize the logic behind this one. It reduces any potential complexity about when to tie down handbrakes to a simple, easy-to-audit rule, at the cost of wasting some effort in a lot of cases where it may not be necessary. If the economics ever make that wasted effort too expensive, then the rule will probably be modified to improve efficiency at the cost of some complexity.
Dan
dpeltier Lithonia Operator Well, that sounds like a dumb, pointless rule, if the man is basically unable to stop a rolling cut. I don't think that's the intention behind the rule. He's not there to make sure the cars don't roll away. He's there to make sure that the cars aren't left there indefinitely without the brakes being tied down. If everyone can walk away and do other things without tying the cars down, it greatly increases the chance that they get forgotten about and left there, while the crew goes home - especially if their routine is interrupted and they go home unexpectedly (possibly with a stop at the company restroom to supply urine samples). Similarly, at least one Class 1 has a rule saying that, in certain circumstances, when a MOW worker opens a mainline switch, he must stay within sight of it the whole time it's open. It's not so that he can restore the switch if he sees a train coming - it's so that he can't walk away to do something else, leaving the switch open, and forget to come back and restore it. Same principle. I'm not a trainman so I won't weigh in on the overall merits of these handbrake rules, but I'm familiar enough with RR rules generally to recognize the logic behind this one. It reduces any potential complexity about when to tie down handbrakes to a simple, easy-to-audit rule, at the cost of wasting some effort in a lot of cases where it may not be necessary. If the economics ever make that wasted effort too expensive, then the rule will probably be modified to improve efficiency at the cost of some complexity. Dan
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy SidingI'm picturing a Far Side cartoon... a skeleton dressed like a railroader waiting patiently for the rest of the crew, arm's length from a cut of cars.
Google "The Haunt of Hunter" for a different take...
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