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How do US Trains look from the outside

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How do US Trains look from the outside
Posted by KBCpresident on Thursday, November 26, 2020 7:17 PM

Recently I have been looking at pictures of trains in other countries--Australia, china, UK, India, and a few others. Having grown up in the midst of the North American rail system myself, I've gotten used to it, but the railways in those other countries look alien.

I assume it's the same for people from other countries looking at pics of North American railroads? If so, I'm curious: what features of the American Railroad system seem most bizarre to those not used to it? 

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, November 26, 2020 8:32 PM

One consistent comment heard on the Deshler railcam chat from those located outside of North America is how big our trains are.  Consists in the 13,000 to 14,000 foot range are, well, foreign to them.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, November 26, 2020 8:41 PM

Going the other way, do other (non North American) rail systems use any type of extended/cushioned drawbars?  

They make handling our long trains even more difficult.  

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Posted by KBCpresident on Thursday, November 26, 2020 9:00 PM

One thing I noticed while searching Railpictures, is that hood units seem to be rare outside North America. Also, most pictures of diesels elsewhere are either shovel nosed, or have the cab at the very front of the locomotive like a city bus.

Any idea why?

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, November 26, 2020 9:49 PM

KBCpresident
One thing I noticed while searching Railpictures, is that hood units seem to be rare outside North America. Also, most pictures of diesels elsewhere are either shovel nosed, or have the cab at the very front of the locomotive like a city bus.

Any idea why?

I am GUESSING - less chance for highway grade crossing incidents.

The early Burlington Zephyrs had locomotives with the operating cab at the front of the unit and some killed their operator in grade crossing incidents.  The original B&O road diesel #50 was built as a box cab locomotive.

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Posted by KBCpresident on Thursday, November 26, 2020 9:56 PM

The early Burlington Zephyrs had locomotives with the operating cab at the front of the unit and some killed their operator in grade crossing incidents.  The original B&O road diesel #50 was built as a box cab locomotive.

 

Wouldn't that be an incentive then to do american-style short hoods?

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, November 26, 2020 10:02 PM

KBCpresident
 

The early Burlington Zephyrs had locomotives with the operating cab at the front of the unit and some killed their operator in grade crossing incidents.  The original B&O road diesel #50 was built as a box cab locomotive. 

Wouldn't that be an incentive then to do american-style short hoods?

You are misunderstanding what I am postulating.

Europen and other operating enviornments have fewer highway grade crossings - thus they don't percieve the need to protect the locomotive operator that american continent operators do.  Either that or they just don't care about the safety of the operator.

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Posted by mvlandsw on Friday, November 27, 2020 7:43 PM

Many countries' railroads have a smaller loading gage to fit all the required equipment into. They may not have room for an extended nose on locomotives.

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Posted by Psychot on Saturday, November 28, 2020 9:49 AM

BaltACD
 
 
KBCpresident
 

The early Burlington Zephyrs had locomotives with the operating cab at the front of the unit and some killed their operator in grade crossing incidents.  The original B&O road diesel #50 was built as a box cab locomotive. 

Wouldn't that be an incentive then to do american-style short hoods?

 

You are misunderstanding what I am postulating.

Europen and other operating enviornments have fewer highway grade crossings - thus they don't percieve the need to protect the locomotive operator that american continent operators do.  Either that or they just don't care about the safety of the operator.

 

I've ridden a lot of trains both in the U.S. and Europe/Central Asia, and I think you've hit on one of the biggest infrastructure differences: grade crossings. I would bet that Europeans are shocked when they ride on a U.S. train and find that the engineer is constantly blowing the horn for grade crossings. There are very few grade crossings over there, and especially the minimally protected rural ones that are so ubiquitous in the U.S. 

Just another example of the half-assed way we do infrastructure here.

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Posted by 54light15 on Saturday, November 28, 2020 10:17 AM

In England there are a fair amount of road crossings but the big difference is that most of the right of way is fenced in except for some rural areas. Also crossing gates cover the entire width of the road. 

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, November 28, 2020 11:13 AM

Psychot

 

 
BaltACD
 
 
KBCpresident
 

The early Burlington Zephyrs had locomotives with the operating cab at the front of the unit and some killed their operator in grade crossing incidents.  The original B&O road diesel #50 was built as a box cab locomotive. 

Wouldn't that be an incentive then to do american-style short hoods?

 

You are misunderstanding what I am postulating.

Europen and other operating enviornments have fewer highway grade crossings - thus they don't percieve the need to protect the locomotive operator that american continent operators do.  Either that or they just don't care about the safety of the operator.

 

 

 

I've ridden a lot of trains both in the U.S. and Europe/Central Asia, and I think you've hit on one of the biggest infrastructure differences: grade crossings. I would bet that Europeans are shocked when they ride on a U.S. train and find that the engineer is constantly blowing the horn for grade crossings. There are very few grade crossings over there, and especially the minimally protected rural ones that are so ubiquitous in the U.S. 

Just another example of the half-assed way we do infrastructure here.

 

There are grade crossings in Germany, too,  with horn blowing,  though mostly on secondary lines and with four-gate protection. 

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Posted by JPS1 on Saturday, November 28, 2020 3:41 PM

Psychot
 Just another example of the half-assed way we do infrastructure here. 

The amount of money spent to protect a grade crossing should be a function of the risks associated with it.  If the grade crossing has a lot of vehicle and train traffic, the probability of an accident may be relatively high.  Accordingly, the crossing should be protected robustly.  If the crossing has little vehicular and train traffic, simple warning signs may be appropriate. 
 
Investing more for any functional activity than is warranted by a risk assessment is not a good idea irrespective of whether the spend is by a private business or a government entity. 
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Posted by York1 on Saturday, November 28, 2020 4:12 PM

Psychot
Just another example of the half-assed way we do infrastructure here.

Out in my part of the country, there are crossings every mile.  The farmers need to move heavy, wide machinery to each side of the tracks.

To eliminate crossings means the farmer must move his machinery miles to get across.  It's impractical to build elevated crossings each mile, and it's impractical to build crossings that would need a quarter mile to gain elevation.

I'm speaking only for my part of the continent -- basically flat, wide-open flyover country.

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Posted by Psychot on Saturday, November 28, 2020 4:56 PM

York1

 

 
Psychot
Just another example of the half-assed way we do infrastructure here.

 

Out in my part of the country, there are crossings every mile.  The farmers need to move heavy, wide machinery to each side of the tracks.

To eliminate crossings means the farmer must move his machinery miles to get across.  It's impractical to build elevated crossings each mile, and it's impractical to build crossings that would need a quarter mile to gain elevation.

I'm speaking only for my part of the continent -- basically flat, wide-open flyover country.

 

I grew up on a ranch in North Dakota, so I'm familiar with the situation.   In fact, we had one of those unprotected grade crossings on a section line. Yet somehow, European countries manage to minimize them. 

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Posted by Psychot on Saturday, November 28, 2020 5:05 PM

JPS1

 

 
Psychot
 Just another example of the half-assed way we do infrastructure here. 

 

The amount of money spent to protect a grade crossing should be a function of the risks associated with it.  If the grade crossing has a lot of vehicle and train traffic, the risk of an accident may be relatively high.  Accordingly, the crossing should be protected robustly.  If the crossing has little vehicular and train traffic, simple warning signs may be appropriate. 
 
Investing more for any functional activity than is warranted by a sophisticated risk assessment is not a good idea irrespective of whether the spend is by a private business or a government entity. 
 

I was riding on the Empire Builder a few years ago when we hit a gravel truck at one of those unprotected crossings near Williston ND. The locomotive stuck the truck at something like 60 mph, but the driver was unharmed because the tractor was already on the other side of the crossing and the trailer was ripped off the kingpin. An employee of my family's livestock auction market was killed at a similar crossing when he crossed the then-BN mainline near Dickinson ND with a dump truck and apparently wasn't paying attention. Yes, there's less traffic at these rural crossings and therefore less risk of an incident, but they do happen, and it sometimes costs lives. There has to be a better way of doing things.

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Posted by GN_Fan on Monday, November 30, 2020 12:59 PM

As an expat living in Italy for the last 15 years, I've noticed that heavily traveled roads are narrow and depressed to go under the tracks while the ones in towns or rural areas are FULLY protected by gates.  The US on the other hand, has built roads that are as wide as the Panama Canal and protect only half of the road, as there is no money left over from the ongoing wars in Iraq or Afghanastan to pay for anything besides bare bones grade crossing protection.  Obviously, the prioroities of the US is out of sync with the Italy, and appearently most of the world.  

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, November 30, 2020 3:36 PM

GN_Fan
The US on the other hand, has built roads that are as wide as the Panama Canal and protect only half of the road, as there is no money left over from the ongoing wars in Iraq or Afghanastan to pay for anything besides bare bones grade crossing protection. 

I think you'll find that the initial cost of crossing protection (or any upgrade thereof) falls on the road owner - usually a local municipality, county, or state.  Thus they make the decision on how much said protection is worth to them.  If it's a problematic crossing, they'll be more willing to shell out the dollars.  

The railroad may insist on a higher level of protection if they see the risk differently.

Unless some portion of the funding is coming out of the highway trust fund, the feds aren't involved.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, December 1, 2020 9:36 PM

In reading the 'High Speed' article in the December 2020 issue of trains it is mentioned on the Chicago-St.Louis high speed line that there are 189 protected highway crossings in a specified 220 miles of the 260 mile corridor- approaching a protected crossing each mile through the countryside.

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Posted by MMLDelete on Tuesday, December 1, 2020 10:42 PM

I'm not sure if this is still true, but it used to be that in Europe freight cars were significantly shorter than ours. Same with most of their engines.

And in Europe pretty much ALL major lines are electrified.

One thing I love about North American lines is that very few have catenary. I'm not a big fan of electric railroads; too much visual clutter.

 Not a visual thing, but MANY other countries have passenger trains with better time-keeping than Amtrak!

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Posted by greyhounds on Tuesday, December 1, 2020 11:26 PM

GN_Fan
The US on the other hand, has built roads that are as wide as the Panama Canal and protect only half of the road, as there is no money left over from the ongoing wars in Iraq or Afghanastan to pay for anything besides bare bones grade crossing protection.  Obviously, the prioroities of the US is out of sync with the Italy, and appearently most of the world.  

This is horsefeathers.  

"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
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Posted by NittanyLion on Wednesday, December 2, 2020 8:09 AM

Switzerland has plenty of grade crossings too.

I suspect it is a function of closing speed and volume more than anything else.  The faster and more frequent a US segment is, the less likely there's grade crossings. too.

When I made my first trip to Europe, I was shocked at how tiny their rolling stock is.

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Posted by Psychot on Wednesday, December 2, 2020 9:18 AM

Lithonia Operator

Not a visual thing, but MANY other countries have passenger trains with better time-keeping than Amtrak!

 

That's true, but let's be fair to Amtrak: the passenger railroads in those countries don't have to contend with host railroads that are borderline hostile to passenger trains. Moreover, freight density in Europe is much lower than in the U.S., so dispatchers aren't trying to get passenger trains through a gauntlet of slower-moving freights.

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Posted by 54light15 on Wednesday, December 2, 2020 9:48 AM

Freights in Europe are way shorter, too. There seems to be a lot more cars built for one purpose, unlike a North American box car which can carry anything. You rarely see boxcars over there anyway. The famed "40 men or 8 horses" type are just about extinct. Most freights have the dual buffers with the turnbuckle coupler but passenger trains can have various types with or without the buffers. 

I do recall how in Switzerland in the 1970s every station seemed to have a boxcar sitting on a spur track and these all had a covered platform at one end. I don't know if that is still the case. All over Europe and Britain you see abandoned freight platforms near stations and in East Germany you can see the sites of freight yards that were torn out when the factories that needed them closed down when the country reunited.  In Bielefeld, Germany is a huge roundhouse and water tower all falling into ruins. 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, December 2, 2020 10:06 AM

Lithonia Operator
 Not a visual thing, but MANY other countries have passenger trains with better time-keeping than Amtrak!

They're afraid Mussolini's going to come back, in Italy anyway.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, December 2, 2020 10:12 AM

Flintlock76
 
Lithonia Operator
 Not a visual thing, but MANY other countries have passenger trains with better time-keeping than Amtrak!

 

They're afraid Mussolini's going to come back, in Italy anyway.

 
He did, in the person of Silvio Berlusconi.  He got booted out of office, too.
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, December 2, 2020 10:29 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
He did, in the person of Silvio Berlusconi.  He got booted out of office, too.

Couldn't make the trains run on time?  At least he didn't get mixed up with a crazy German housepainter.

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Posted by 54light15 on Wednesday, December 2, 2020 12:05 PM

One thing about Italy is that the infrastructure of steam still exists. At the Florence station there are water columns at the ends of the platforms and coaling silos can be seen here and there. I was in Italy in 2004 and in the outskirts of the Florence station sat a 2-6-2 that obviously wasn't a derelict, it was most likely used for excursions. 

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Posted by KBCpresident on Wednesday, December 2, 2020 6:16 PM

I'm enjoying this discussion a lot! Lots of differences around the world it seems--I suppose this is the result of differences in how railroads evolved depending on local cultures/governments/geography? 

It seems to me like North American rialroads are fairly unique--bigger equipment, longer trains, early dieselization. And I'm pretty sure the locomotive bell is unique to North America.

Is that just a factor of politics and geography?

 

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Posted by KBCpresident on Wednesday, December 2, 2020 6:18 PM

54light15

Most freights have the dual buffers with the turnbuckle coupler

Those bumpers on British railways some one mentioned earlier look so weird to me. I figure they are there in case of collisions, but a train collision is possible anywhere--why aren't they found worldwide?

When I was a kid watchign Thomas and Friends I coudln't understand why none of the locomotives looked familiar. Took me a few years to figure that one out....

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, December 2, 2020 6:23 PM

KBCpresident
 
54light15

Most freights have the dual buffers with the turnbuckle coupler 

Those bumpers on British railways some one mentioned earlier look so weird to me. I figure they are there in case of collisions, but a train collision is possible anywhere--why aren't they found worldwide?

When I was a kid watchign Thomas and Friends I coudln't understand why none of the locomotives looked familiar. Took me a few years to figure that one out....

Feature the Buffer Pads were a 'safety' item with either link & pin or turnbuckle coupling systems - gives a worker a guaranteed space to complete the coupling.

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