GBSD70ACeIts just so funny to me how people with no railroad experience (real railroading not some volunteer tourist train or museum deal) act so shocked about rules violations. News flash sometimes you have to break rules, it's simply a matter of first knowing that you are breaking a rule, choosing which rule to break, how to break it as safely as possible, and hoping you don't get caught.
I think part of it is that we frequently see reports of draconian rules enforcement by the railroads, some engineer gets an unscheduled vacation for running around the leg of a wye just 50 feet into territory he is not qualified for, and even though he was ordered to do so by a superior, he is the one to get the vacation. Or a crew dies on hours while blocking a busy intersection, and even though the relief crew is at least an hour away, there they sit for the duration.
It gives us unwashed outsiders the impression that rules within railroads are sacrosanct......so when we hear about exceptions, it tends to get our interest.
Convicted One GBSD70ACe Its just so funny to me how people with no railroad experience (real railroading not some volunteer tourist train or museum deal) act so shocked about rules violations. News flash sometimes you have to break rules, it's simply a matter of first knowing that you are breaking a rule, choosing which rule to break, how to break it as safely as possible, and hoping you don't get caught. I think part of it is that we frequently see reports of draconian rules enforcement by the railroads, some engineer gets an unscheduled vacation for running around the leg of a wye just 50 feet into territory he is not qualified for, and even though he was ordered to do so by a superior, he is the one to get the vacation. Or a crew dies on hours while blocking a busy intersection, and even though the relief crew is at least an hour away, there they sit for the duration. It gives us unwashed outsiders the impression that rules within railroads are sacrosanct......so when we hear about exceptions, it tends to get our interest.
GBSD70ACe Its just so funny to me how people with no railroad experience (real railroading not some volunteer tourist train or museum deal) act so shocked about rules violations. News flash sometimes you have to break rules, it's simply a matter of first knowing that you are breaking a rule, choosing which rule to break, how to break it as safely as possible, and hoping you don't get caught.
tree68If the parted section isn't going to run away (ie, it's being pushed upgrade, or at least on the level), it could be put back on air (assuming the conductor can get to it either by walkway on the trestle (if there is one) or riding the last car from somewhere off the bridge back to the train)
I'll be honest and admit that I had not considered that possibility, certainly sounds interesting, but it does raise additional questions. I thought it was a definite no-no to be standing inside guage so near an unsecured train? Connecting that airhose is gonna put a man in harms way.
Plus, once he accomplishes that, where is he gonna ride while the train is playing "bumpercars" during the shove?
I'd post a picture of the Tulip Trestle for reference, but I do not own the rights to any such picture and I don't want the teacher to have a fit and give me a detention over I.P. sensitivities.
No walkway on the Tulip Trestle. Which brings me back to my original concern with the suggestion I received earlier from others.
Before such a train can be moved, doesn't the move require "boots on the ground" protection in the rear?
And, perhaps I'm going into excess, but I thought someone once mentioned here that after a train had gone into emergency, the entire train HAD to be walked for visual inspection before it could be moved? Clearly that's not gonna happen on the Tulip Trestle, but I do believe that was a REQUIREMENT that we unwashed masses were once schooled over, on previous occasion?
Anyway, getting that train off the trestle appears to require acts that we have been told are not supposed to happen?
Train can be pulled by if the duck can't inspect it all. But the engineer has to have dispatcher approval, be able to see air being recovered on the rear, and has no difficulty getting train moving. You can back up a train 1 train length with dispatcher approval as long as there aren't any intervening signals, road crossings, etc. If the duck can't get to a seperation on a bridge, call for help, take a nap.
Euclid Dave, Handbrakes are not all or nothing in the mechanical terms of application. But, they are all or nothing in terms of what is considered fully applied. So if a handbrake is required to be set, it is set fully without regard to what is actually needed to hold the car from moving. They only question is, what is meant by fully set? Setting them initially finds the shoes hanging clear of the wheels, so the brake wheel turns freely with very little resistance, and so several wheel revolutions can be made without changing your hand position on the wheel. When the shoes contact the wheels, the wheel winding action begins to gain resistance, you begin tugging on the wheel rotation about 1/3 rotation at a time, and the locking dog holds the wheel position each time you reposition your hand. Then each “stroke” of the wheel has the feel of taking more effort as though it were tightening a spring like when winding a clock. I have been told that the resiliency or feeling of tightening a spring does not come from an actual spring, such as an extension spring in the handbrake rod linkage. I understand that the spring action feel results from the elasticity of all of the brake linkage between the brake wheel and the shoes pressing against the wheels. As the wheel is wound against this elasticity, the shoe/wheel contact gets more forceful. Generally, a handbrakes is applied to the tightness extent that it is considered fully applied to the maximum practical force. Typically it is not tightened with the intention of only applying the force actually needed. So, in that sense of the effect of setting a handbrake you could say they are “all or nothing.” They are wound to what one considers a tightness that corresponds to having them fully applied even if that is much more force than what is actually needed to hold the car. Sometimes they are applied to cars that would not roll if there were no handbrake applied. In that case, it is simply a precaution against the possibility they might be only held by a small amount of friction which would further release later due to temperature changes, or maybe a wind might come up and cause the car to start rolling. But even in that case of being able to stand still without a handbrake; if one is required, it is applied to what is considered to be the fullest extent. However, evaluations have determined that different trainmen each routinely apply with a force level that varies considerably between one person and another. There is a lot of resilient stretch as you continue to tighten the brake wheel after the shoes contact the wheels. To achieve what might seem to be the reasonable sufficient force; a person might tug and then reposition their hand on the wheel maybe 6-10 times before they consider the brake to be adequately set. It is possible to tighten them to the point of causing the chain to break. So that would be considered over-tightening. An ideal hand brake would tell the operator when it was sufficiently tightened to the industry standard. But there is no such feature. Investigation has also found that handbrakes are not necessarily maintained to be capable of being properly set. In such cases, handbrakes may be tightened to what a person considers maximum torque, while the brake is providing holding power that is far less than adequate.
Dave,
Handbrakes are not all or nothing in the mechanical terms of application. But, they are all or nothing in terms of what is considered fully applied. So if a handbrake is required to be set, it is set fully without regard to what is actually needed to hold the car from moving. They only question is, what is meant by fully set?
Setting them initially finds the shoes hanging clear of the wheels, so the brake wheel turns freely with very little resistance, and so several wheel revolutions can be made without changing your hand position on the wheel.
When the shoes contact the wheels, the wheel winding action begins to gain resistance, you begin tugging on the wheel rotation about 1/3 rotation at a time, and the locking dog holds the wheel position each time you reposition your hand. Then each “stroke” of the wheel has the feel of taking more effort as though it were tightening a spring like when winding a clock. I have been told that the resiliency or feeling of tightening a spring does not come from an actual spring, such as an extension spring in the handbrake rod linkage. I understand that the spring action feel results from the elasticity of all of the brake linkage between the brake wheel and the shoes pressing against the wheels.
As the wheel is wound against this elasticity, the shoe/wheel contact gets more forceful. Generally, a handbrakes is applied to the tightness extent that it is considered fully applied to the maximum practical force. Typically it is not tightened with the intention of only applying the force actually needed. So, in that sense of the effect of setting a handbrake you could say they are “all or nothing.” They are wound to what one considers a tightness that corresponds to having them fully applied even if that is much more force than what is actually needed to hold the car.
Sometimes they are applied to cars that would not roll if there were no handbrake applied. In that case, it is simply a precaution against the possibility they might be only held by a small amount of friction which would further release later due to temperature changes, or maybe a wind might come up and cause the car to start rolling. But even in that case of being able to stand still without a handbrake; if one is required, it is applied to what is considered to be the fullest extent.
However, evaluations have determined that different trainmen each routinely apply with a force level that varies considerably between one person and another. There is a lot of resilient stretch as you continue to tighten the brake wheel after the shoes contact the wheels. To achieve what might seem to be the reasonable sufficient force; a person might tug and then reposition their hand on the wheel maybe 6-10 times before they consider the brake to be adequately set. It is possible to tighten them to the point of causing the chain to break. So that would be considered over-tightening.
An ideal hand brake would tell the operator when it was sufficiently tightened to the industry standard. But there is no such feature. Investigation has also found that handbrakes are not necessarily maintained to be capable of being properly set. In such cases, handbrakes may be tightened to what a person considers maximum torque, while the brake is providing holding power that is far less than adequate.
Here is a photo of the Tulip Trestle.
(CO, if something is publicly accessible on the web, there is no copyright issue with linking to it.)
Lithonia Operator(CO, if something is publicly accessible on the web, there is no copyright issue with linking to it.)
Thanks LO,....I just didn't want to risk getting a possible bad grade. I hope to graduate this semester!!
Here is a view of tulip trestle that shows the constrained work area. Not sure how you could walk around a stranded section to provide protection in the rear.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/VJmz6_JDfQo/sddefault.jpg
Convicted OneI just didn't want to risk getting a possible bad grade. I hope to graduate this semester!!
Well now, I'm not putting any money on THAT!!
GBSD70ACe You can easily tell the railfans and non operating people from the people who actually have experience in the field working in T&E service. You see handbrakes being dragged all the time, just spend a little time in the yard or on a local/industry job and it won't take long. Its easy for someone whose never done the job to be so strongly against moving cars with handbrakes applied.
You can easily tell the railfans and non operating people from the people who actually have experience in the field working in T&E service.
You see handbrakes being dragged all the time, just spend a little time in the yard or on a local/industry job and it won't take long.
Its easy for someone whose never done the job to be so strongly against moving cars with handbrakes applied.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Lithonia OperatorHere is a photo of the Tulip Trestle. (CO, if something is publicly accessible on the web, there is no copyright issue with linking to it.)
When it comes to 'shut down' situations that cannot be remedied within the rules - the 'officials' will undertake whatever actions are necessary to move the 'shut down' from where it is blocking the line.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
bogie_engineerOne concern about pushing a loco with a handbrake applied is it may force a derailment because the truck is restricted against turning by the chain which is far outboard of the loco centerline. Brake rigging on cars acts generally close to centered on car so the same issue doesn't occur but can.
Locomotive handbrakes will slide the wheel after about 50'. Then if the handbrake is on a front axle, you get the nice thumpthumpthumpthumpthumpthump as you run.
Don't shove locomotive handbrakes. Ever. I've had to rip a conductor or two in my day about it.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Murphy Siding I do appreciate the railroad folks on here that explain things for us non-railroaders.
Head and shoulders above anything else, that aspect is the best part of this forum, IMO.
Here is an interesting runaway report with a cause of both handbrake failure and airbrake failure. Engineer made an emergency application because his train was getting out of control while descending a grade. The application stopped the train, and he got out and set 35 handbrakes to secure it. On his way back to the engine, the air brakes had leaked enough to release, and the train began to roll because 35 handbrakes were not enough to hold it. He was able to get back on the engine while was moving, and he rode it out to the bottom of the grade where it eventually stopped.
Railway Investigation Report R11Q0056
Runaway train Quebec North Shore and Labrador Railway Freight train LIM-55 Mile 67.20, Wacouna Subdivision Dorée, Quebec 11 December 2011
https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/rail/2011/r11q0056/r11q0056.html
Deeper into the report, it goes into issues regarding defects in the handbrakes and the airbrake cylinders. It gets into the problem of determining the number of handbrakes needed when maintenance deficiencies degrade handbrake effectiveness, and different people apply them to different degrees of tightness.
EuclidHere is an interesting runaway report with a cause of both handbrake failure and airbrake failure. Engineer made an emergency application because his train was getting out of control while descending a grade. The application stopped the train, and he got out and set 35 handbrakes to secure it. On his way back to the engine, the air brakes had leaked enough to release, and the train began to roll because 35 handbrakes were not enough to hold it. He was able to get back on the engine while was moving, and he rode it out to the bottom of the grade where it eventually stopped. Railway Investigation Report R11Q0056 Runaway train Quebec North Shore and Labrador Railway Freight train LIM-55 Mile 67.20, Wacouna Subdivision Dorée, Quebec 11 December 2011 https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/rail/2011/r11q0056/r11q0056.html Deeper into the report, it goes into issues regarding defects in the handbrakes and the airbrake cylinders. It gets into the problem of determining the number of handbrakes needed when maintenance deficiencies degrade handbrake effectiveness, and different people apply them to different degrees of tightness.
The entire incident just shouts inadequate maintenance of braking systems on the railroad involved, which is in fact a Private operation owned by Iron Ore Canada.
WikipediaThis railway(QNSX), along with the TSH line, Chemin de fer Arnaud (ARND), Wabush Lake Railway (WABL), and Bloom Lake Railway (BLRC), form an isolated railway network, as it does not interchange with any other rail lines on the North American network.
BaltACD Euclid Here is an interesting runaway report with a cause of both handbrake failure and airbrake failure. Engineer made an emergency application because his train was getting out of control while descending a grade. The application stopped the train, and he got out and set 35 handbrakes to secure it. On his way back to the engine, the air brakes had leaked enough to release, and the train began to roll because 35 handbrakes were not enough to hold it. He was able to get back on the engine while was moving, and he rode it out to the bottom of the grade where it eventually stopped. Railway Investigation Report R11Q0056 Runaway train Quebec North Shore and Labrador Railway Freight train LIM-55 Mile 67.20, Wacouna Subdivision Dorée, Quebec 11 December 2011 https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/rail/2011/r11q0056/r11q0056.html Deeper into the report, it goes into issues regarding defects in the handbrakes and the airbrake cylinders. It gets into the problem of determining the number of handbrakes needed when maintenance deficiencies degrade handbrake effectiveness, and different people apply them to different degrees of tightness. The entire incident just shouts inadequate maintenance of braking systems on the railroad involved, which is in fact a Private operation owned by Iron Ore Canada. Wikipedia This railway(QNSX), along with the TSH line, Chemin de fer Arnaud (ARND), Wabush Lake Railway (WABL), and Bloom Lake Railway (BLRC), form an isolated railway network, as it does not interchange with any other rail lines on the North American network.
Euclid Here is an interesting runaway report with a cause of both handbrake failure and airbrake failure. Engineer made an emergency application because his train was getting out of control while descending a grade. The application stopped the train, and he got out and set 35 handbrakes to secure it. On his way back to the engine, the air brakes had leaked enough to release, and the train began to roll because 35 handbrakes were not enough to hold it. He was able to get back on the engine while was moving, and he rode it out to the bottom of the grade where it eventually stopped. Railway Investigation Report R11Q0056 Runaway train Quebec North Shore and Labrador Railway Freight train LIM-55 Mile 67.20, Wacouna Subdivision Dorée, Quebec 11 December 2011 https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/rail/2011/r11q0056/r11q0056.html Deeper into the report, it goes into issues regarding defects in the handbrakes and the airbrake cylinders. It gets into the problem of determining the number of handbrakes needed when maintenance deficiencies degrade handbrake effectiveness, and different people apply them to different degrees of tightness.
Wikipedia This railway(QNSX), along with the TSH line, Chemin de fer Arnaud (ARND), Wabush Lake Railway (WABL), and Bloom Lake Railway (BLRC), form an isolated railway network, as it does not interchange with any other rail lines on the North American network.
If it makes you feel any better, CN and CP are just as bad at air brake maintenance.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
zugmann SD70Dude Loaded cars will never, ever skid, no matter how hard you apply the handbrake. Oh yes they can. And also the fastest way to get flat spots.
SD70Dude Loaded cars will never, ever skid, no matter how hard you apply the handbrake.
Oh yes they can. And also the fastest way to get flat spots.
Now I'm curious, I've seen a good number of loaded cars that have moved many miles with the handbrake applied, and I've yet to see one that locked up and skidded. Several of them rolled far enough that the brakes shoes melted.
And before anyone asks, we either spotted them on roll-bys or got to deal with them after they arrived in the yard, by which time the damage has already been done.
Empties and locomotives both skid easily, and I would never dare to drag them around.
I have seen a few other (empty) cars that have skidded for long distances, resulting in flat spots several inches long and large lumps of slag on the wheel tread. In this case it is best to leave the handbrake applied and drag it in the clear, those wheels are already scrap and if they start rolling there is a good chance they will derail.
SD70DudeNow I'm curious, I've seen a good number of loaded cars that have moved many miles with the handbrake applied, and I've yet to see one that locked up and skidded. Several of them rolled far enough that the brakes shoes melted.
We had a car that we think had a handbrake not fully released. Rolled OK until things warmed up due to the friction. Fortunately, it did slide with no untoward results (other than the one wheel melted as noted) - it was an occupied passenger car.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Regarding the subject of moving trains while handbrakes are applied, I recall CSX rules about handling a train that has stopped on a long steep grade, and is faced with the need to recharge and release air brakes before proceeding. In that case, the rules allow leaving all of the handbrakes that had been set for securement to remain applied as the train descends the grade. So that could be miles of travel with hand brakes applied to maybe 75 cars.
How does one do a #1 brake test from a 'moving vehicle' on a train equipped with 4-cylinder TMB? Just note the position of the shoes?
400 cars bought ... again, like all these runaway stories, from the United States ... and "LIM" tested only twenty-four of them????
110 cars, 175 cylinders replaced, 165 valves replaced, "brake rigging adjusted" (on TMB??) Air brakes that 'release' from an emergency set in an hour? As I asked my father at a Giants game where the scoreboard read -496 yards at halftime, "is that normal?"
(Before we hear anything about Chinese maintenance standards from people reading the report, it's a misspelling. The company that owns the railway at least from Emeril Junction to Schefferville is First Nations, and the name is Tshiuetin, which I'm told means "North Wind". Strange that the misspelling hasn't been corrected in nearly a decade. Stranger that they, too, seem to have gone along with this whole maintenance charade.)
The situation with descending a grade with many handbrakes set -- assume the 'correct' number in TC's little post-1996 'table' -- is little different from descending a grade with the air brakes appropriately set. If I understand brakes correctly, if these emergency handbrakes were applied with the air 'emergency set' they will be pre-loaded for easier winding even if the mechanisms are not well lubricated, and will be applied to some percentage of that set's clamping force after the air brakes are released -- so they can be thought of as like a more enthusiastic version of retainers.
The only drawback to this is if the train encounters repeated sawtooth grades before the handbrakes are released, any one of which of course provides the opportunity for a train to be stopped 'over the crest' with half its weight on either side so the brakes could be applied, the handbrakes wound off with preload to make this mechanically easier, and then release and recharge with the train moving little during the process.
Note how little is said about issues with single-man crews, where the "35 handbrake actuating levers" were located, and where the engineer was, after having set the 35 brakes, in time to be able to board the locomotive when the train started moving...
SD70Dude BaltACD Euclid Here is an interesting runaway report with a cause of both handbrake failure and airbrake failure. Engineer made an emergency application because his train was getting out of control while descending a grade. The application stopped the train, and he got out and set 35 handbrakes to secure it. On his way back to the engine, the air brakes had leaked enough to release, and the train began to roll because 35 handbrakes were not enough to hold it. He was able to get back on the engine while was moving, and he rode it out to the bottom of the grade where it eventually stopped. Railway Investigation Report R11Q0056 Runaway train Quebec North Shore and Labrador Railway Freight train LIM-55 Mile 67.20, Wacouna Subdivision Dorée, Quebec 11 December 2011 https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/rail/2011/r11q0056/r11q0056.html Deeper into the report, it goes into issues regarding defects in the handbrakes and the airbrake cylinders. It gets into the problem of determining the number of handbrakes needed when maintenance deficiencies degrade handbrake effectiveness, and different people apply them to different degrees of tightness. The entire incident just shouts inadequate maintenance of braking systems on the railroad involved, which is in fact a Private operation owned by Iron Ore Canada. Wikipedia This railway(QNSX), along with the TSH line, Chemin de fer Arnaud (ARND), Wabush Lake Railway (WABL), and Bloom Lake Railway (BLRC), form an isolated railway network, as it does not interchange with any other rail lines on the North American network. If it makes you feel any better, CN and CP are just as bad at air brake maintenance.
It doesn't make me feel any better - as both CN & CP have, appearantly, had more than their share of runaways attributable to poor brake system maintenance. Poor brake maintenance seems to be as Canadian as Tim Horton's.
For CN and CP, the poor maintenance standards came with Hunter Harrison and all his cuts.
Once they get moving so fast, I think they break free. But at slower (yard) speeds, you can def'n slide loads. Now you have to put a good brake on them - not a wimpy road conductor brake!
How to get a hand brake really tight? Charge the air brake system and then dynamite it before tying the brake. The extra emergency air in the brake cylinder pushes out the brake piston a little bit more.
That's also a possible remedy if one can't get a hand brake to release because it's too tight.
Jeff
Even a full service makes a difference you can feel.
Maybe this is a dumb question.
In the case of the runaway in Euclid's link above, I'm wondering if the engineer maybe should have fully recharged the brake line, then done an emergency set. Yes, for the time it would have taken to do the recharging, the train would have been without whatever benefit the air brakes were still providing. How long would that have been? Maybe it would have been worth it?
Its hard to know, I guess, how much stopping power he was still getting from the air brakes. Maybe hardly any, since the train was rolling despite lots of handbrakes set. Maybe it would have been worth the gamble to pump the air back up, then dump it.
Lithonia OperatorMaybe this is a dumb question. In the case of the runaway in Euclid's link above, I'm wondering if the engineer maybe should have fully recharged the brake line, then done an emergency set. Yes, for the time it would have taken to do the recharging, the train would have been without whatever benefit the air brakes were still providing. How long would that have been? Maybe it would have been worth it? Its hard to know, I guess, how much stopping power he was still getting from the air brakes. Maybe hardly any, since the train was rolling despite lots of handbrakes set. Maybe it would have been worth the gamble to pump the air back up, then dump it.
One of the NTSB runaway accidents I read, The NTSB did some testing and found on a nominal 2% grade - if the speed of 100 ton capacity cars exceeded 15 MPH, the air brakes on the car - no matter if applied in service or emergency would fade to ineffectiveness as they overheated from the task. To control trains on this kind of territory effectived dynamic braking was required in addition to air brakes.
As a result of this, CSX implemented the following restriction
CSX TTSI - Mountain Sub 5559 STEEP GRADE (1% OR MORE) TRAIN HANDLING 1. Unit Trains:For head-end movement only, the allowable speed is 15 MPH while descending the following grades:BA 207.8 and BA 223.0 - Seventeen Mile GradeBA 242.3 and BA 252.3 - Cranberry GradeBA 255.1 and BA 259.3 - Cheat River GradeBA 262.0 and BA 267.4 - Newburg Grade
5559 STEEP GRADE (1% OR MORE) TRAIN HANDLING
1. Unit Trains:For head-end movement only, the allowable speed is 15 MPH while descending the following grades:BA 207.8 and BA 223.0 - Seventeen Mile GradeBA 242.3 and BA 252.3 - Cranberry GradeBA 255.1 and BA 259.3 - Cheat River GradeBA 262.0 and BA 267.4 - Newburg Grade
I'm almost certain the composite-shoe outgassing issue dominated the last part of the runup to 63mph (with the train as reported in full dynamic!) but another part of this is the 175 cylinders (at the given 4 cylinders per truck, 8 per car) and 165 valves out of 110 cars that were unworkable. I suspect more of them, perhaps a great many, were only borderline 'passing' testing, and that testing is for only a small percentage of their 'new' performance.
As I recall in the report, he already had to stop the train (from 38mph) with an emergency application on the same grade, which was the situation where the train started rolling again, so unless the grade pitched sharply down after that point I think "other conditions" were aggravating factors.
Remember that the 63mph was not only with full dynamics but 35 handbrakes set... it would have taken a while for the set shoes to heat to outgassing fade.
Overmod'm almost certain the composite-shoe outgassing issue dominated the last part of the runup to 63mph (with the train as reported in full dynamic!) but another part of this is the 175 cylinders (at the given 4 cylinders per truck, 8 per car) and 165 valves out of 110 cars that were unworkable. I suspect more of them, perhaps a great many, were only borderline 'passing' testing, and that testing is for only a small percentage of their 'new' performance.
I find the brake cylinder count to be a tad ambiguous. Are there four brake cylinders per car, or per truck? Our passenger cars have two cylinders per truck, one on each side.
We used to have several cars with single cylinders on which it was necessary to kick the brake shoe during the Class 1 test, both set and released. The shoes normally ran so close to the tread that a simple visual check was not sufficient to know either, especially when in release. On most of our cars, the shoes will fall slightly away from the tread in release.
It's important to know how many cylinders there actually were, as the number of cylinders replaced changes a percentage. If it's eiight per car, then just under a quarter of the cylinders were replaced, presumably because they weren't working. If it's just four cylinders per car, we now have nearly half the cars without effective brakes.
tree68 Overmod 'm almost certain the composite-shoe outgassing issue dominated the last part of the runup to 63mph (with the train as reported in full dynamic!) but another part of this is the 175 cylinders (at the given 4 cylinders per truck, 8 per car) and 165 valves out of 110 cars that were unworkable. I suspect more of them, perhaps a great many, were only borderline 'passing' testing, and that testing is for only a small percentage of their 'new' performance. I find the brake cylinder count to be a tad ambiguous. Are there four brake cylinders per car, or per truck? Our passenger cars have two cylinders per truck, one on each side. We used to have several cars with single cylinders on which it was necessary to kick the brake shoe during the Class 1 test, both set and released. The shoes normally ran so close to the tread that a simple visual check was not sufficient to know either, especially when in release. On most of our cars, the shoes will fall slightly away from the tread in release. It's important to know how many cylinders there actually were, as the number of cylinders replaced changes a percentage. If it's eiight per car, then just under a quarter of the cylinders were replaced, presumably because they weren't working. If it's just four cylinders per car, we now have nearly half the cars without effective brakes.
Overmod 'm almost certain the composite-shoe outgassing issue dominated the last part of the runup to 63mph (with the train as reported in full dynamic!) but another part of this is the 175 cylinders (at the given 4 cylinders per truck, 8 per car) and 165 valves out of 110 cars that were unworkable. I suspect more of them, perhaps a great many, were only borderline 'passing' testing, and that testing is for only a small percentage of their 'new' performance.
What kind of brakes are you two talking about? Eight cylinders per car? I thought one per car was standard, but two on tank cars and maybe some specialty equipment.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Paul of Covington What kind of brakes are you two talking about? Eight cylinders per car? I thought one per car was standard, but two on tank cars and maybe some specialty equipment.
That's what I'm asking.
I've worked with cars with on cylinder, and our passenger cars generally have four. I've never seen eight, which would be two per axle, other than on locomotives.
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