Branson Virgin Hyperloop passenger test
https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/359390
GrampBranson Virgin Hyperloop passenger test https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/359390
When they get the speed up to 300 KPH for 100 KM or more, then they will have something to crow about and build upon.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
The "build out" to make such a system actually useful, might prove daunting.
Oh joy, another form of mass transit competing for subsidies.
Monorail! Monorail!
What problems with "duo-rail" ground transport are these systems supposed to solve?
Has hovertrain or maglev ever offered any advantage with respect the maintenance cost of both the tracks and wheels and bogies for high-speed trains? Or is the maglev advantage speed, and the Hyperloop, yet even more speed?
How do you make a switch with Hyperloop, or is the idea that one would get out of your seat and board a different Hyperloop at hub stations?
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
How many 'tubes' will the Hyper-loop vehicles operate in each direction - what sort of headway will be maintained between vehicles? Questions? Questions? Questions?
There is a long, long, long way between 'proof of concept' to a operating system with a positive economic return on investment - be that investment public or private.
MagLev is much further along than Hyperloop. I expect to see the infant phase of an intercity MagLev system break ground within this decade. Either in China or Japan. Hyperloop is many decades off from any feasible operation. That's if it does become feasible.
If I wanted to ride in a transonic Suburban with tiny porthole windows, I'll do it well above the ground with a good BRS/parafoil emergency mechanism, not in a trillion-dollar single-purpose tunnel that even minor earthquakes might compromise. This is Beach's vacuum subway 2.0, with roughly comparable throughput, with either remarkably long safe headway or effective 'platooning' with physical contact (considering the effective deceleration should a pad 'lose integrity' on one of the Suburbans...)
If the whole generation of Aerotrains failed to thrive because there were no alternate uses for the track, and no cost-effective primary uses for the track ... why should we think a system with 3x the guideway cost and only a fraction of the operating safety would be any better?
I think construction of Japan's maglev has been stopped for now. I think these technologies are like the SST. Exciting but only 'useful' til the money runs out. What's the point when you can reliably fly 600mph by air and 180mph by rail? Personally, I'd rather resources be used constructing the safest possible, most reliable, economical electrical system. And a safe, efficient hydrogen fuel cell system for road vehicles.
Gramp I think construction of Japan's maglev has been stopped for now. I think these technologies are like the SST. Exciting but only 'useful' til the money runs out. What's the point when you can reliably fly 600mph by air and 180mph by rail? Personally, I'd rather resources be used constructing the safest possible, most reliable, economical electrical system. And a safe, efficient hydrogen fuel cell system for road vehicles.
600 MPH by air? In which century?
Airliners fly much slower than that to save on fuel.
BaltACDWhen they get the speed up to 300 KPH for 100 KM or more, then they will have something to crow about and build upon.
Cost to build and maintain has to be proven as well. As well as capacity to haul large amounts of people on a per hour basis. I have a distinct feeling the theory will fall apart in one of those areas. We shall see.
There is also a speed limit that has not been mentioned so far. They reported in the hyperloop tests as well as some of the maglev tests that above a specific speed some humans feel physical discomfort, disorientation or dizziness. Forget what speed that is but they hit it with the Maglev in China and I am not sure how they fixed it or if they fixed it. Virgin has run into it with it's slower speed tests.
CMStPnP They reported in the hyperloop tests as well as some of the maglev tests that above a specific speed some humans feel physical discomfort, disorientation or dizziness.
There may be a subsonic vibration at certain speeds. That's been encountered with ventilation systems. Above a certain speed even slight undulations in the carriage system may induce that.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
MY concern is what happens when an anomaly occurs 40 miles from a terminal. It would be like being stuck in an elevator. And the tube is built to hold a vacuum so it is strong. The base tunnels under the alps have thoughtful plans for contingency. I would like to see the hyperloops' plans for contingencys.
Paul Milenkovic 600 MPH by air? In which century? Airliners fly much slower than that to save on fuel.
600MPH is about Mach 0.9 at cruising altitude, ISTR that airliners typically fly M0.80 to M0.82 (~530 MPH). This is kind of funny as the Republic XR12 piston engine recce plane could cruise at 450+MPH and Republic was trying to get interest in an airliner version.
OTOH, the whole rationale for the Hyperloop design is that air drag at sea level becomes a real problem much above 100mph. Developing an short haul electric airliner could easily cost less than the CA HSR project.
SD60MAC9500 MagLev is much further along than Hyperloop. I expect to see the infant phase of an intercity MagLev system break ground within this decade. <SNIP>
MagLev is much further along than Hyperloop. I expect to see the infant phase of an intercity MagLev system break ground within this decade.
<SNIP>
I'm not sure about this. The real disadvantage of maglev - and it's a big one, is that its equipment is not able to use conventional tracks nor can conventional equipment use maglev tracks.
In France, the TGVs use/used convential tracks to reach certain terminals and in other areas as well while new right of ways were being developed. That's a BIG plus that shouldn't be overlooked.
The top experimental speed of convential high-speed rail is about that of maglev or at least comes close anyways (around 300-325 mph).
Lyndon Henry who helped launch the Light Rail Now website refers to maglev, hyperloop, monorail, etc. as "gadgetbahn". That's a good name for it. All of these systems will probably be built and put into operation at some point and at some location. (There are already at least several maglevs operating).
But will any of these gadget-like technologies prevail in the end? I believe that the jury is still out. Way out.
Regards,
Fred M. Cain
You're right about such systems. Remember when Disneyland opened and the future was monorails? Didn't happen, did it?
Paul MilenkovicMonorail! Monorail!
I hear those things are awfully loud...
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann Paul Milenkovic Monorail! Monorail! I hear those things are awfully loud...
Paul Milenkovic Monorail! Monorail!
What about us brain dead slobs?
An "expensive model collector"
n012944What about us brain dead slobs?
BaltACD There is a long, long, long way between 'proof of concept' to a operating system with a positive economic return on investment - be that investment public or private.
That's the bugaboo people have a hard time with, even in the face of a working model. There's a ton of stuff we could build, quite arbitrarily, that would never, ever be feasible. Somehow, this is unperceived.
For instance, we could easily build a spaceplane capable of kangaroo flights from, say, New York, reaching any point on Earth in under 45 minutes. There's nothing to actually develop, just sit down and start bending metal with knowledge we already have. Tickets would be on the range of hundreds of millions of dollars, though. But, we could actual build it if we wanted to.
Feasible? Never. By the time you'd get your launch costs down low enough, you'd likely see your vehicle superceded by other technologies.
NittanyLionFor instance, we could easily build a spaceplane capable of kangaroo flights from, say, New York, reaching any point on Earth in under 45 minutes.
In case anyone is wondering, the limiting distance is half the great circle between the two points.
Does anyone still have an URL for that Lockheed spoof progress report from 1965? They stated the case for hypersonic economics rather well by noting that for an additional outlay of some more or less astronomical number they were increasing the number of seats in their design from 8 to 10...
In case anyone is wondering, the limiting distance is half the great circle containing antipodal points. Distance to any other two points will be less.
I guess this needs to be posted on the Humor thread, but the answer is 7 hours and 9 minutes?
Why 7 hours and 9 minutes you say?
54 minutes for the "semi-ballistic flight", one hour to get through Security, a half hour to wait for parents with small children, the elderly, credentialed active-duty military, and weenies who have accumulated good will for someone else paying for their many flights to board first, 15 minutes for the flight attendants to plead with people who cannot find overhead bin space to allow their overstuffed roll-aways to be placed in the cargo hold, 15 minutes at the other end waiting for a gate and another 15 minutes trying to get off the rocket ship while other passengers wrestle their anvils out of the overhead bins.
Wait a minute, you say, that only adds up to 3 hours and 9 minutes?
Yeah, but then you have to allow another 2 hours for ground transportation at each end!
That last mile is a killer.
GrampThat last mile is a killer.
In most forms of transportation - the first mile and the last mile are the most difficult miles.
Paul Milenkovicthe answer is 7 hours and 9 minutes?
It's interesting to consider what would have happened if the air transport industry had in fact invested heavily in followons to the 2707 and sold expensive quick travel instead of wide body commodity. I think we'd still see People Express-like small-aircraft 'convenience' for everyone not needing the high speed, and widebodies for volume...
MY concern is what happens when an anomaly occurs 40 miles from a terminal. It would be like being stuck in an elevator. And the tube is built to hold a vacuum so it is strong. The base tunnels under the alps have thoughtful plans for contingency. I would like to see the hyperloops' plans for contingencys. With out one, I ain't about to get aboard. At least when I get on METRA, they announce where the emegency windows are.
Electroliner 1935 And the tube is built to hold a vacuum so it is strong.
And the tube is built to hold a vacuum so it is strong.
Well, it's strong enough. But it doesn't take much for a tube to resist 15 psi of compression. The strength will more needed to keep the tube from sagging between supports. And then there's the other strength: not-leaking (much).
Ed
CMStPnP There is also a speed limit that has not been mentioned so far. They reported in the hyperloop tests as well as some of the maglev tests that above a specific speed some humans feel physical discomfort, disorientation or dizziness. Forget what speed that is but they hit it with the Maglev in China and I am not sure how they fixed it or if they fixed it. Virgin has run into it with it's slower speed tests.
It doesn't seem to be 268 mph. I rode the Shanghai maglev, and noted nobody in distress. Maybe they kept it to themselves.
I don't recall the noise level, but it certainly wasn't obnoxious. I could easily talk to my seatmate. The ride was reminiscent of a regular train on good track at about 60 mph--a little movement now and then--no problem walking around.
I had a great time, especially watching us pass cars on the freeway like they were parked.
I'd sure like to hear more about this odd phenomenon.
Electroliner 1935MY concern is what happens when an anomaly occurs 40 miles from a terminal.
Probably along the lines of many tunnels that have an accompanying smaller tube for wiring, etc, and to allow access throughout the tunnel without having to travel in the problem tube. Such access tubes would likely have surface access at reasonable distances.
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