Thankfully no one hurt.
https://www.wthr.com/article/news/local/pendleton-semi-train-crash/531-92c78f67-159a-4f60-81e5-e3a45df6da75
Thankfully indeed But didn't anyone think to call CSX to tell them there was a truck fouling that grade crossing? Obviously not.
Correct me if I'm wrong please, but aren't there railroad phone numbers posted on the crossing gate boxes just for these kinds of situations?
It's called an ENS Number.... The answer is yes. (my comment over in the DD&CS)
Heads ought to roll at InDOT... The trucker/drayman needs to find new employment, hopefully never behind the wheel again.
Everyone's phones were too busy being set up to record the video of the impact.
Never mind. Video made my point moot.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
mudchicken It's called an ENS Number.... The answer is yes. (my comment over in the DD&CS) Heads ought to roll at InDOT... The trucker/drayman needs to find new employment, hopefully never behind the wheel again.
Why is it the drivers fault that the highway/grade crossing was not built to accepted standards of vertical angles?
Was the grade crossing posted to this effect? Every trailer he hitches to is different in regard to landing gear clearance, which seems to have been the problem?
How long was he there before the train came? Even if notified did the train have time to stop?
Do we know that CSX was not called?
All unanswered questions.
Sheldon
Clearly marked
That yellow sign seems to be missing in the current videos, though.
You are correct. Looks like that pole was replaced.
zugmann beat me to it.
If you enlarge the videos, it seems the yellow sign is not there (from what I could see, anyway).
York1 John
My conductor son had a close call with a stuck Dollar General truck two weeks ago. Fortunately, a city fireman who saw the truck was stuck on the crossing, phoned the ENS number and the dispatcher was able to contact my son and get his train stopped about 100 yards from the crossing. My son walked up to the crossing and questioned the driver who apparently had no idea those small blue signs are posted at every railroad crossing.
I have concluded the vast majority of drivers are completely unaware these signs are posted or what their purpose is. Perhaps if the railroads could divert a bit of money away from the shareholders and run public service announcements on TV and radio, it might serve to increase people's awareness of these signs. At the very least, operators of commercial truck fleets should be sure to include this in their training and safety programs.
Curt
It's revealing how some on here, including a person experienced with crossings, have a knee-jerk reaction to blame the driver and then the IDOT without proof, as though the railroad has zero responsibility.
Juniata ManI have concluded the vast majority of drivers are completely unaware these signs are posted or what their purpose is. Perhaps if the railroads could divert a bit of money away from the shareholders and run public service announcements on TV and radio, it might serve to increase people's awareness of these signs. At the very least, operators of commercial truck fleets should be sure to include this in their training and safety programs.
They need a catchy jingle.
"Stuck on the tracks - what should you do?
Call the number on the sign that's blue!"
The signs do seem to blend in with all the other stuff tacked on to the xing gate poles (lights, bells, other signs, gate arm bracket thingies). Maybe add a big exclamation point to the sign or something? I dunno..
PS. On one of the popular general picture/duiscussion sites, there was a video of a fire at a gas station. Many people commenting had no clue many gas stations have emergency shut-off buttons. I think sometimes we think what is common knowledge isn't so.
And so, if the sign is gone, I renew my question.
Comparing the two photos, the google maps info is pretty old.......
And that power line has had a major upgrade since then.
Why is a highway sign on a utitly pole in the first place? That's not even legal here.
Why is the sign so low? In a location hard for the driver of a semi to see even if he is looking for it?
No truck driver making a right hand turn from the road parallel to the tracks and going toward that grade crossing had a prayer of seeing that sign even when it was there.
How about proper sized and height signs on all three directions of approach before that intersection?
There may be blame to assign, but it seems not to the truck driver.......
ATLANTIC CENTRAL There may be blame to assign, but it seems not to the truck driver.......
If a driver can't tell that he will high center on that crossing, he does not need to be behind the wheel of something that large. I don't want to share the road with him.
An "expensive model collector"
zugmannPS. On one of the popular general picture/duiscussion sites, there was a video of a fire at a gas station. Many people commenting had no clue many gas stations have emergency shut-off buttons. I think sometimes we think what is common knowledge isn't so.
Many, but not all self-serve gas stations I've been to have signs on the pumps informing customers of the emergency shut off buttons.
However, I haven't been to one yet that tells you where it is! I have to look around to spot the damn things! Not that I've needed one yet, thank God!
"Oh, there it is!"
I asked where the button was once... it was behind and under the counter in the convience store.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
charlie hebdo It's revealing how some on here, including a person experienced with crossings, have a knee-jerk reaction to blame the driver and then the IDOT without proof, as though the railroad has zero responsibility.
CSX responsibility ends at maintaining the crossing. Not placing DOT signs to warn "professional drivers" who don't pay attetion to ground clearance.. Depending on landing gear condition some are just 4-6" above the pavement.. I will say this container chassis don't always get the best maintenance either..
I drove a semi and I blame the driver. You do nor drive around hauling a trailer chassi in the full back position. That causes all sorts of potential problems of bottoming on any hump not just RR crossings. If the tandems could not be moved forward that is aother problem. if so you make sure the landing gear is all the way up. You will be surprized how many units I saw with gear not all the way up.
SD60MAC9500 charlie hebdo It's revealing how some on here, including a person experienced with crossings, have a knee-jerk reaction to blame the driver and then the IDOT without proof, as though the railroad has zero responsibility. CSX's responsibility ends at maintaining the crossing. Not placing DOT signs to warn "professional drivers" who don't pay attetion to ground clearance.. Depending on landing gear condition some are just 4-6" above the pavement.. I will say this container chassis don't always get the best maintenance either..
CSX's responsibility ends at maintaining the crossing. Not placing DOT signs to warn "professional drivers" who don't pay attetion to ground clearance.. Depending on landing gear condition some are just 4-6" above the pavement.. I will say this container chassis don't always get the best maintenance either..
This also looks like a local road and not US36, IN9/67 Et al so would I-DOT have any role here?
I am assuming everyone and everything will be named on the lawsuits.
CSX also is NOT responsible for the approach grades. (Clear violation of the AASHTO-AREMA joint standard.) CSX's responsibility for the crossing ended 2 ft beyond the outside rails.
The driver clearly did not understand the limits of his rig. (incompetance on his part)
InDOT should have raised the highway intersection long ago and the city/county should have participated in that. They placed flashers/lights/bell and gates at the crossing and must have done a diagnostic evaluation at the crossing (standard procedure for over 50 years) at the crossing, ignoring the aproach grades and elevation in the curves of the two tracks that appear to be correctly in the same plane. The crossing should not have been allowed to even remain open to trucks. The railroad could not have closed the crossing, but InDOT has the legal authority to do so....and didn't.
When they hand out white canes for InDOT and the driver, make sure to include Charlie. (The proof is right in front of him and he's still trying to make apologies for bad judgements) .... My initial comment, made before this thread began, stands.
There have been fatals and injuries at this location, but all back in the Conrail era and incidents into the CSX era. There is no detail on how many high-centered trucks and other vehicles. Madison Street 538 971C Pendleton IN
mudchicken CSX also is NOT responsible for the approach grades. (Clear violation of the AASHTO-AREMA joint standard.) CSX's responsibility for the crossing ended 2 ft beyond the outside rails. The driver clearly did not understand the limits of his rig. (incompetance on his part) InDOT should have raised the highway intersection long ago and the city/county should have participated in that. They placed flashers/lights/bell and gates at the crossing and must have done a diagnostic evaluation at the crossing (standard procedure for over 50 years) at the crossing, ignoring the aproach grades and elevation in the curves of the two tracks that appear to be correctly in the same plane. The crossing should not have been allowed to even remain open to trucks. The railroad could not have closed the crossing, but InDOT has the legal authority to do so....and didn't. When they hand out white canes for InDOT and the driver, make sure to include Charlie. (The proof is right in front of him and he's still trying to make apologies for bad judgements) .... My initial comment, made before this thread began, stands. There have been fatals and injuries at this location, but all back in the Conrail era and incidents into the CSX era. There is no detail on how many high-centered trucks and other vehicles. Madison Street 538 971C Pendleton IN
Exactly, the superelevation of the track, and the fact that there are two tracks, creates a fall away from the crest that the driver might not have been aware of until it was too late.
He may have looked forward at the crest, assuming it was level across the tracks, and felt the angle was acceptable.
Not everyone knows about railroad civil engineering, or understands superelevation and the gentle but banked nature of railroad curves.
If he was unfamiliar with the area, it may have looked fine - until it didn't.
And again, we don't know which direction of the three choices he was coming from. It is a very short distance from the intersection to the crossing, not providing time or space to assess all these condtions - which should have been more clearly signed as I suggested above.
Had there been reasonable advance signage, I would agree, the drive would be at fault.
The various google images also suggest the gates and lights have been worked on in the same time frame as the power line upgrade and the disappearance of the poorly placed sign, since the latest images show the blue sign on the cross bucks, not present in earlier images.
Seems to me everybody responsable to make this crossing safe for strangers to the area failed.
Part of the problem with crossings such as this is that the tracks get raised, a little at a time, through the years.
I'd bet there was a time when that was a level crossing.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
1. For the first high center trucking company will have to pay for serious warning signs denoting the hazard. Within 90 days of incident
2. Second high center trucking company will have to help pay to raise approaches.
3. Third city, county, state, trucking company will be required to raise approaches to highway standards +any future possible raising of tracks further. No more than 90 days before starting project.
4. Fourth close crossing within 90 days or underpass or bridge construction started owner of crossing and trucking company fully liable for all expenses to mitigate closing.
York1 zugmann beat me to it. If you enlarge the videos, it seems the yellow sign is not there (from what I could see, anyway).
No, there seems to be something on what looks to me to be the same pole in the same location as the warning, although it is seen side on...
However, the sign isn't very prominent and could easily be missed.
I'm familiar with "low (rail) bridge" signs that were repeatedly ignored until the local authority finally fitted a height detector with flashing lights to stop truck drivers blindly following their GPS device.
Peter
M636CI'm familiar with "low (rail) bridge" signs that were repeatedly ignored until the local authority finally fitted a height detector with flashing lights to stop truck drivers blindly following their GPS device.
Such warnings don't always help - someone hit the rail bridge in Liverpool this past week.
Sometimes I wonder if telltales wouldn't be appropriate. Having your overheight vehicle hit by a bunch of maple dowels might get your attention. Or not.
zugmann Juniata Man I have concluded the vast majority of drivers are completely unaware these signs are posted or what their purpose is. Perhaps if the railroads could divert a bit of money away from the shareholders and run public service announcements on TV and radio, it might serve to increase people's awareness of these signs. At the very least, operators of commercial truck fleets should be sure to include this in their training and safety programs. They need a catchy jingle. "Stuck on the tracks - what should you do? Call the number on the sign that's blue!" The signs do seem to blend in with all the other stuff tacked on to the xing gate poles (lights, bells, other signs, gate arm bracket thingies). Maybe add a big exclamation point to the sign or something? I dunno.. PS. On one of the popular general picture/duiscussion sites, there was a video of a fire at a gas station. Many people commenting had no clue many gas stations have emergency shut-off buttons. I think sometimes we think what is common knowledge isn't so.
Juniata Man I have concluded the vast majority of drivers are completely unaware these signs are posted or what their purpose is. Perhaps if the railroads could divert a bit of money away from the shareholders and run public service announcements on TV and radio, it might serve to increase people's awareness of these signs. At the very least, operators of commercial truck fleets should be sure to include this in their training and safety programs.
Since it has been years since I had to go through the testing procedure on highway laws and practices to get my Drivers License - if a section of the 'Drivers Manual' does not explain the ENS signs - there should be such a section and it should also be tested on the written exam. Such a section should be a REQUIRED part of the CDL exam - especially since those operating vehicles that require CDL's are the ones most likely to get their vehicles in situations that would require the railroad to be contacted for their own protection.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
tree68 Part of the problem with crossings such as this is that the tracks get raised, a little at a time, through the years. I'd bet there was a time when that was a level crossing.
So does the railroad have any responsibility for the impact the changes it made in its ROW have on the crossing?
I'm simply asking a question. I"m not blind and resent the petty ad hominem attacks by MC. People who are secure don't need to engage in such childish behavior that is pretty disrespectful of the handicapped as well.
charlie hebdoSo does the railroad have any responsibility for the impact the changes it made in its ROW have on the crossing?
I would opine that, based on the usual arrangements for crossings - ie, the railroad was there first thus the road is the interloper - that the railroad has no legal responsibility to coordinate their actions with the highway people.
On the other hand, being a good neighbor might dictate some sort of cooperation, particularly if there are a number of such crossings when a highway parallels a ROW.
I'm going to defend MC - he's got a lot of years in the railroad business, much of it work in relation to incidents such as this. You don't tolerate people who offer opinions, etc, that run counter to your profession - he does that same.
charlie hebdo tree68 Part of the problem with crossings such as this is that the tracks get raised, a little at a time, through the years. I'd bet there was a time when that was a level crossing. So does the railroad have any responsibility for the impact the changes it made in its ROW have on the crossing? I'm simply asking a question. I"m not blind and resent the petty ad hominem attacks by MC. People who are secure don't need to engage in such childish behavior that is pretty disrespectful of the handicapped as well.
To put the truck in that position the driver had to be either mentally handicapped or visually impaired or both. The hump over the tracks is painfully obvious to someone that can see and think. Obviously the driver was not able to do either.
I have my doubts that it was ever a 'level' crossing - traditionally railroads have built their lines on a bit of a fill so as to enhance drainage of water away from the right of way. Just like highways are constructed with a crown to to drain water off the traveling surface to the sides of the road.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.