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Rebound in Coal?

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, September 26, 2020 8:58 PM

JPS1

 

 
jeffhergert
 Soar? Skyrocket?  Yes, I can see it.  So what?

While some coal plants may be able to be restarted, many others are gone.  Replaced by gas plants that can't be easily converted, if at all.  The energy companies will just pass on the increased cost as much as possible.

Jeff 

 

My former employer - I am retired - has shut down and mothballed half of its coal fired steam electric stations.  The others are on or near the chopping block.  They are not coming back.  

It is not just the economics of coal vs alternative fuels or alternative sources, i.e. wind, solar, etc.  It is also emotions.  The political winds, which are driven by emotions, are blowing against coal.  It is unlikely that any new coal fired power plants will be built in Texas, and the push will be to retire the existing ones as soon as practicable. 

 

Natural gas also has total cost advantages,  right? 

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Posted by JPS1 on Saturday, September 26, 2020 8:47 PM

jeffhergert
 Soar? Skyrocket?  Yes, I can see it.  So what?

While some coal plants may be able to be restarted, many others are gone.  Replaced by gas plants that can't be easily converted, if at all.  The energy companies will just pass on the increased cost as much as possible.

Jeff 

My former employer - I am retired - has shut down and mothballed half of its coal fired steam electric stations.  The others are on or near the chopping block.  They are not coming back.  

It is not just the economics of coal vs alternative fuels or alternative sources, i.e. wind, solar, etc.  It is also emotions.  The political winds, which are driven by emotions, are blowing against coal.  It is unlikely that any new coal fired power plants will be built in Texas, and the push will be to retire the existing ones as soon as practicable. 

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, September 26, 2020 6:14 PM

Coal plants usually have more restricted turndown, too.  That makes them better for baseline operation than variable or transient demand.

 

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Saturday, September 26, 2020 4:21 PM

Paul Milenkovic

Coal power plants are also less thermally efficient than the best gas-fired plants.

My understanding is that a brand new coal plant can hit 45% in thermal efficiency and still meet some fairly strict emissions standards. OTOH, the best combined cycle plants are running about 60% thermal efficiency.

The main issue with a coal plant is that it tends to be more expensive and take longer to build than a combined cycle plant and thus would need to run at a high capacity factor for economic reasons.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, September 26, 2020 3:11 PM

jeffhergert
Soar? Skyrocket?  Yes, I can see it.  So what?

While some coal plants may be able to be restarted, many others are gone.  Replaced by gas plants that can't be easily converted, if at all.  The energy companies will just pass on the increased cost as much as possible.

Jeff

Just like a illicit drug dealer - hook them on the product and raise the price.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, September 26, 2020 2:16 PM

Soar? Skyrocket?  Yes, I can see it.  So what?

While some coal plants may be able to be restarted, many others are gone.  Replaced by gas plants that can't be easily converted, if at all.  The energy companies will just pass on the increased cost as much as possible.

Jeff

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Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Saturday, September 26, 2020 10:28 AM

"Natural gas prices are set to soar."

Soar.  Sky rocket.  Words that should be banned.

For the price to increase to $3 per million BTUs, we are talking roughly the equivalent of 42 cents for a gallon of #2 Diesel.  Yes, wholesale, but it is still an energy bargain.  The projected price is gas recovering from the price having crashed owing to the Virus Crisis.

We are talking the equivalent of $84/ton of a low-ash coal?  Doesn't coal run about $50/ton?  Coal power plants are also less thermally efficient than the best gas-fired plants.  I think gas would have to get much more expensive to get people's attention to switch back to coal.

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?

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Rebound in Coal?
Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, September 26, 2020 9:54 AM

Interesting article and I wonder if it means a rebound in coal traffic and if so for how long and how high a rebound?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-natural-gas-prices-set-220000277.html

 

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