I remember when watching the Thomas the Tank Engine TV series as kid, a common trope is that passanger cars have to be handled genlty and more carefully then freight cars, as they can be handled more roughly if need be. I suppose the logic is that, because passanger cars carry people along with the food stuff, fragile silver and glasswear and eating utensils needed for Gordons (the big engine, #4 of the North Western Railway) express, it needs he be handled carefully do nothing becomes upset and at a good smooth speed, the ride is not uncomfertable. However I have to ask how this applies to real life railroad passanger and freight opperations in North America, Britian and the rest of the world. Shouldnt both passanger and freight cars be treated the same? I mean if you handle one more roughly then the other, you wear the rolling stock out much faster. Not to mention, many freight cars carry fragile vanualbles such as class bottles, automobiles that even when well packaged and shock insullated, are still fragile to the whims of the freight cars movments.
Passengers complain instantly, freight doesn't.
Perishable or fragile freight can easily be damaged, which is probably one of the reasons we don't haul a huge amount of that stuff in boxcars anymore. Modern North American intermodal equipment has very little slack compared to regular freight cars, and the older 'buffers & chain' coupling system found on the Island of Sodor has even more slack.
When freight is damaged it can be very difficult to trace exactly where it happened. So it is very difficult to assign certain blame to the crew and train who did it.
I grew up reading and watching the Thomas stories, and also had a large collection of the wooden toys. Now I work for a real railroad. Ever since I started working I've been stunned at just how accurate so many of Rev. Awdry's stories are, especially from the other side of the Atlantic.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Engi1487 However I have to ask how this applies to real life railroad passanger and freight opperations in North America, Britian and the rest of the world. Shouldnt both passanger and freight cars be treated the same?
Remember - in handling occupied passenger equipment, the passengers may be standing and/or walking about the car as it is being switched/coupled to other cars. The object of making a safe passenger car coupling is not to know anyone off their feet.
Freight cars have their 'occupants' (lading) blocked and braced to prevent movement when subjected to the normal impacts of rail transportation. The 'safe' coupling speed for freight cars is considered to be 4 MPH or the speed of a 'brisk' walk. Such a impact with a occupied passenger car would knock anyone standing/walking right off their feet.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
SD70DudeNow I work for a real railroad. Ever since I started working I've been stunned at just how accurate so many of Rev. Awdry's stories are, especially from the other side of the Atlantic.
"You have caused confusion and delay!"
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
4 mph might be considered 'safe', but it's still pretty darn rough. When coupling locomotives to cars the Engineer will REALLY feel anything harder than about 1 mph, I try to aim for a bit less to give myself an easier ride.
zugmann SD70Dude Now I work for a real railroad. Ever since I started working I've been stunned at just how accurate so many of Rev. Awdry's stories are, especially from the other side of the Atlantic. "You have caused confusion and delay!"
SD70Dude Now I work for a real railroad. Ever since I started working I've been stunned at just how accurate so many of Rev. Awdry's stories are, especially from the other side of the Atlantic.
We have a Trainmaster with small children who love Thomas. He's actually used that phrase at work a few times.
That's the dispatcher's job.
Jeff, with appologies to our dispatcher friends on here.
SD70Dude4 mph might be considered 'safe', but it's still pretty darn rough. When coupling locomotives to cars the Engineer will REALLY feel anything harder than about 1 mph, I try to aim for a bit less to give myself an easier ride.
Then you'd get on power with all the cabinet doors and windows opened, cooler tossed all over the cab, bottles of water in the ceiling, and be like, "yep this was used with remote engines."
zugmann SD70Dude 4 mph might be considered 'safe', but it's still pretty darn rough. When coupling locomotives to cars the Engineer will REALLY feel anything harder than about 1 mph, I try to aim for a bit less to give myself an easier ride. Then you'd get on power with all the cabinet doors and windows opened, cooler tossed all over the cab, bottles of water in the ceiling, and be like, "yep this was used with remote engines."
SD70Dude 4 mph might be considered 'safe', but it's still pretty darn rough. When coupling locomotives to cars the Engineer will REALLY feel anything harder than about 1 mph, I try to aim for a bit less to give myself an easier ride.
Many of our Beltpak units have bent frames now.
A guy managed to warp one pretty badly in Winnipeg a few years ago, he made a hard joint and then the unit refused to move. Another crew looked over to see that the inside axle on each truck was up in the air and spinning freely, which the control system interpreted as a uncontrolled wheelslip alarm.
A couple of years ago the wife and I took Amtrak from Iowa to California and back. On the trip back at Denver they had to pick up some private cars on the end of the train. It took three tries to get the pin to drop.
One time there was a RC engine that not only had the side window opened, but had one that was knocked off it's track and on the floor.
Jeff
My knowledge is that passenger cars don't get kicked - even if unoccupied. All movements are coupled, under control.
Running around the consist is a regular part of our local runs. One end is with no passengers (but possibly staff) on the train.
The other end is with an occupied train, and often with passengers watching from the vestibule. The passenger cars are tied down during both.
Thus, every effort is made for a smooth coupling. Some engineers are smother than others, and sometimes the crewmember on the ground calling in the hitch is a little off on their distances, too.
One engineer was very proud of how he came in one time - in fact, he came in too 'nicely' and I had to back him up and have him come in again, just a bit harder, to get the pin to drop.
Never watched a lot of Thomas, and when I did, it was before I was volunteering on the railroad, so the context was lost.
On the other hand, I did get to serve as "Driver" on one of the replica (unpowered) Thomases during an event on our railroad. In reality, it was just a fancy shove platform...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Engineer that couples to a track at 4 MPH has only himself or the individual that is 'spotting' the coupling to blame for going a..hole over teacups at 4 MPH.
The 4 MPH coupling for freight cars is for 'free rolling' cars, either being kicked in flat switching of coming off a hump into the final class track.
Railroads, in concert with their customers, install impact detectors which record the impacts a shipment gets in transit - both switching and line of road impacts. Most carriers have a 'Freight Loss & Damage' department that works to make customers whole for railroad caused loss and damage and they also work to devise methods to minimize the damage to products in transit.
Historic British coupling
Freight cars Note space between buffers when coupled Lots of slack
Passenger cars Buffers slightly compressed so no slack
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
BaltACDEngineer that couples to a track at 4 MPH has only himself or the individual that is 'spotting' the coupling to blame for going a..hole over teacups at 4 MPH.
4's rough, but you're not going to break anything. And yeah, sometimes rough couplings happen. Esp if you're shifting without air, or on a grade, or in the rain, or with a newer conductor.
Especially on a summer evening, every so often I will hear a hard coupling from a car coming off the hump at Clearing.
zugmann BaltACD Engineer that couples to a track at 4 MPH has only himself or the individual that is 'spotting' the coupling to blame for going a..hole over teacups at 4 MPH. 4's rough, but you're not going to break anything. And yeah, sometimes rough couplings happen. Esp if you're shifting without air, or on a grade, or in the rain, or with a newer conductor.
BaltACD Engineer that couples to a track at 4 MPH has only himself or the individual that is 'spotting' the coupling to blame for going a..hole over teacups at 4 MPH.
I got quite a shock the first time I saw a knuckle swivel pin shoot up out of the coupler!
CSSHEGEWISCH Especially on a summer evening, every so often I will hear a hard coupling from a car coming off the hump at Clearing.
I was in Lynchburg, VA a few years ago for work. One evening I found the entrance to an NS yard adjacent to a mall. I sat outside the gate for a while, watching a yard crew work.
They would kick a car down the appropriate yard track. A few seconds later, in the distance, in the dark, you'd hear "WHAM." Rinse, repeat.
DSchmittNote space between buffers when coupled Lots of slack
In practice, the 'thing to do' would be to use a nominally shorter link, and just wind it off to create the necessary slack to allow buffered waggons to negotiate a tight curve without pushing into derailment. Also in practice, I wouldn't expect any British trainman with a shop steward worth his salt to waste time cranking or dealing with the consequences of not doing so...
SD70Dude Passengers complain instantly, freight doesn't. Ever since I started working I've been stunned at just how accurate so many of Rev. Awdry's stories are, especially from the other side of the Atlantic.
Ever since I started working I've been stunned at just how accurate so many of Rev. Awdry's stories are, especially from the other side of the Atlantic.
DSchmitt Historic British coupling Freight cars Note space between buffers when coupled Lots of slack Passenger cars Buffers slightly compressed so no slack
Engi1487 I never read the original books that the Rev. Awdrys wrote that inspired the TV series I grew up with, but I have to ask, what do you mean of how accurate they are to real world railroading?
I never read the original books that the Rev. Awdrys wrote that inspired the TV series I grew up with, but I have to ask, what do you mean of how accurate they are to real world railroading?
I'll give a couple examples of things at work that are straight out of 'Thomas' stories.
We have numerous customers located very close to yards, so the customer can literally see their cars sitting there, but can't get to them because they haven't been spotted yet. This always reminds me of Bullstrode the Barge angrily waiting to be loaded, while the Troublesome Trucks yell back "YOU'RE in the wrong place, not us!!!". Typical railroad-customer relationship.
In one story the big engines go on strike because the Fat Controller wants them to fetch their own coaches, James, Henry and of course Gordon think switching is beneath them. This was based on an actual strike in Britain, and this issue (road crews doing yard work) is a constant battle over here too. In the story Thomas, Percy and Edward cross the picket line to keep the railroad running.
Back when Amtrak was new and the Southern was still operating their own passenger trains, I took a trip that included their PIEDMONT train which carried piggyback trailers. After we left Washington DC, and made the Alexandria, VA stop, we pulled forward to the yard. I was permitted by the crew to get of the car and watch the addition of the pigs. Switcher was out of sight and the yard crew directed him to come toward us. then told him 500' 300' etc to a safety stop. Then they checked the couplers and told him 4 car lengths, 3, 2, 1, to the joint. Coach did NOT move. Pin dropped. Perfect. I have been on other passenger trains and never felt the joint. Sometimes I have felt when they "stretch" the coupling and the car rocks but nothing that would have thrown anyone off their feet. This same trip, when on the AMTRAK James Whitcomb Riley on the C&O enroute back to Chicago, I felt the train take some of the many curves fast enough that I had trouble keeping from sliding off the dining car seats. Back in the "fifties" and before, trains routinely added and dropped cars enroute. Not so much today. Empire Builder, Sunset Limited, Lake Shore Limited and Texas Eagle have consists changed during their trips. Are there more?
Having endured 10+ hours of Thomas duty yesterday at the local museum, anyone else ever observe that while there are train crews in Thomas' world, they never cause trouble, never gripe and they never make mistakes (talk about a fairy tale existence for railroad employees)
mudchickenwhile there are train crews in Thomas' world, they never cause trouble, never gripe and they never make mistakes (talk about a fairy tale existence for railroad employees)
I don't think you've ever watched the show...
mudchicken Having endured 10+ hours of Thomas duty yesterday at the local museum, anyone else ever observe that while there are train crews in Thomas' world, they never cause trouble, never gripe and they never make mistakes (talk about a fairy tale existence for railroad employees)
I think they actually have good management there, that part isn't very realistic.
The engines and cars more than make up for any lack of crew complaints.
There was another story involving kids throwing rocks at a passenger train, as I recall both Henry and his crew conspired to get back at them. They opened the throttle and/or cleaned out the flues just as they passing under the bridge those pesky kids were standing on! Made them black as, well, I guess I can't say the word that Rev. Awdry used in the original printing........
In his introduction to "Thomas the Tank Engine - The Complete Collection", Rev. W.Awdry says that when he was 3 or 4 years old (he was born in 1911), his father began taking him to visit railways in their area. He said that he couldn't recall ever asking his father a question about railways that his father didn't know the answer to. His father was also a friend of many railway workers since he hung around the rail lines, signal boxes (signal towers), stations etc. so much, and no doubt Rev. Awdry and his father heard many stories from those men about things that had happened on the rails. The engines in the Thomas stories are all based on real engines.
BTW since in the U.S. we really got to know Thomas through the TV show (starting with "Shining Time Station") I suspect many people here don't realize the first story was published back in 1945.
zugmann mudchicken while there are train crews in Thomas' world, they never cause trouble, never gripe and they never make mistakes (talk about a fairy tale existence for railroad employees) I don't think you've ever watched the show...
mudchicken while there are train crews in Thomas' world, they never cause trouble, never gripe and they never make mistakes (talk about a fairy tale existence for railroad employees)
(1) I have had the misfortune to see Sir Topham Hatt in the all-together (frightening!) and
(2) I do not want ever to hear "A Crack In The Track" and that bad Dr. Seuss for the next three lifetimes....
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Living here adjacent to the BNSF (MAIN 3 ELDORADO SUB). It is a down hill lay from east to west to the switch, just north of the Station.) Many of the crews that have to stop; are very smooth, and virtually silent as they stop.
BUT there is one, my wife calls "WHAM, DE BAMBAM" You have to know when he's arrived! [Screaming brake action,and slack running in.]
The worst place, I ever heard switching activity, was when visiting in Jackson, Oh., many years back. The DT&I RR had a stub-end yard, which was flat switched at night; every night. [ My bed was on a screened in porch; I think I got it just to make the new kid suffer ]
I did go down there to the yard, one evening, and watched the action, get a look, and a dose of the racket up close. It sounded like they were kicking the cars from about Columbus!. I saw a couple of cars that jumped up, and you could see light between the truck bolsters and car body!
I guess the locals learned to live with it; or just drank themselves to sleep every night!
samfp1943 I guess the locals learned to live with it; or just drank themselves to sleep every night!
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