NKP guy All of us hardware store-aficianados would certainly enjoy a visit to Chagrin Hardware in Chagrin Falls, Ohio, which has been located in the same three story brick building since 1857!
Aw, you've got us beat by 19 years. We have a hardware store founded in 1876 that's still operating at the same location, creaky wooden floors and all.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/paulofcov/50381364946/in/album-72157626021256880/
I wonder which hardware store Frimbo would have preferred.
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
BaltACDOne from experience - any project ends up requiring 3 trips to the hardware store
I think that's the legal minimum...
As long as we're talking about hardware stores -
A popular stop for visitors to Old Forge, NY is Old Forge Hardware.
More than a hardware store, they have knicknaks, sporting goods, and even some hardware. A popular section is the book section, with many local interest tomes.
It's perhaps an exageration to say they have everything - but...
Legend has it that someone once visited the store looking for some item that the store did not have in stock. Determined not to have that happen again, they ordered the item anyhow. Apparently this happened fairly often, resulting in a rather eclectic stock on hand.
If you're in Old Forge, it's well worth the visit.
Disclaimer - I have no financial or other such interest in the business. Dealing with tourists on a regular basis, it's a regular thing to recommend places for visitors to visit...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
zugmann NKP guy Advice from my father, circa 1960: "Never begin a big project on a Sunday; the harware stores are closed if you need something." ...but Lowes is open....
NKP guy Advice from my father, circa 1960: "Never begin a big project on a Sunday; the harware stores are closed if you need something."
...but Lowes is open....
One from experience - any project ends up requiring 3 trips to the hardware store
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmannjust their hours are not the greatest.
Advice from my father, circa 1960: "Never begin a big project on a Sunday; the hardware stores are closed if you need something."
NKP guy After six years of no hardware store in our town, thus necessitating a 6 mile drive to Lowe's in the next town, a new Ace opened here last year or so. What a difference! As soon as one enters the store there's a knowledgeable clerk asking if one needs any help! As at Lowe's, screws, nuts, nails, etc. now come in plastic packs, so I can't just buy one or three of something. It's worth noting that locally owned businesses support the schools and other good small-town causes in a variety of ways. All of us hardware store-aficianados would certainly enjoy a visit to Chagrin Hardware in Chagrin Falls, Ohio, which has been located in the same three story brick building since 1857! It's a visit to another time, one all railfans would enjoy, because of the ancient creaking wooden floors, the way-high ceiling (probably pressed tin), and the old fashioned way everything is displayed. Here one can buy one nut or three screws or a pound of two-penny nails. They seem to have everything I could ever need. Remember how hardware stores used to smell?
We had good people at our ace for about a year to help start it up. Then they all left (most went back to the "parent store") and ended up with whatever they could get working for the wages they pay.
We had a 19th century hardware store in town. Three stories, creaky wood floors and stairways, old elevator, tin ceilings, the old wooden nail and seed bins- you name it. Unfortunately the owners ran it to the ground. Combination of really bad managing (cancelling orders for customers, not having basics, hiring their son as a manager, oh and having an unguarded side entrance that half their stock walked out of) and thinking it was 1960 still. Now it's an antique store, so at least the bulding still looks nice - even if it's filled with old & overpriced junk.
WE have a fully independent hardware store in town - just their hours are not the greatest.
After six years of no hardware store in our town, thus necessitating a 6 mile drive to Lowe's in the next town, a new Ace opened here last year or so. What a difference! As soon as one enters the store there's a knowledgeable clerk asking if one needs any help! As at Lowe's, screws, nuts, nails, etc. now come in plastic packs, so I can't just buy one or three of something. It's worth noting that locally owned businesses support the schools and other good small-town causes in a variety of ways.
All of us hardware store-aficianados would certainly enjoy a visit to Chagrin Hardware in Chagrin Falls, Ohio, which has been located in the same three story brick building since 1857! It's a visit to another time, one all railfans would enjoy, because of the ancient creaking wooden floors, the way-high ceiling (probably pressed tin), and the old fashioned way everything is displayed. Here one can buy one nut or three screws or a pound of two-penny nails. They seem to have everything I could ever need.
Remember how hardware stores used to smell?
zugmannOur ace is good when you need to pop in for something quick - and don't mind paying a few bucks more.
Or, in my case, it's over 50 miles to the nearest HD or Menards.
York1 John
Our ace is good when you need to pop in for something quick - and don't mind paying a few bucks more.
York1 zugmann My local ACE decided a couple years ago to pick up the store and turn it 180 degrees. Still a pain trying to find anything. I wonder if that was a system-wide change? My local Ace Hardware did the same thing two years ago.
zugmann My local ACE decided a couple years ago to pick up the store and turn it 180 degrees. Still a pain trying to find anything.
I wonder if that was a system-wide change? My local Ace Hardware did the same thing two years ago.
The sole remaining 'mom & pop' hardware store is an ACE, the store layout has remained relatively the same in the 30+ years I have been dealing with them.
My ACE Rewards apply no matter the ACE I frequent, one in Jacksonville and another in Topeka - in addition to the one near home.
mom & pop - I think both have passed on and their daughter has been running the show for the past 10 years or so.
zugmannMy local ACE decided a couple years ago to pick up the store and turn it 180 degrees. Still a pain trying to find anything.
BaltACDWhen I first moved to my present home in 1990 there were 3 hardware stores within 5 miles of my house and one that was about 10 miles from the house. Home Depot built their store 5 miles from the house and less than a mile from 2 of the 3 near stores. One by one they all closed except the one that was 10 miles from my home, which also makes it about 10 miles fromthe Home Depot - they are my 'go to' hardware store - I can find what I want/need without a half hour of wandering around Home Depot to find what I am looking for.
We've had both big and small hardware stores where I grew up (Hechinger's and Builder Square era). Small hardware stores alwasy suffered from crappy banker hours. If I need something at 6pm on a Saturday (or anytime Sunday), my only choice is to go to the big stores. We don't all have schedules set in stone to plan this stuff out.
PS: And one of the 2, either lowes or HD - I think Lowes for sure - maybe both, if you look up the item on their site, it will tell you what aisle and bay it is located in. Easy-peasy. My local ACE decided a couple years ago to pick up the store and turn it 180 degrees. Still a pain trying to find anything.
Amen. First you search for fifteen minutes to find a humanoid who might help you. He/she says "I'm new here" or "I dont work in this department." Then you try to find it on your own. And some things are not located where they logically should be. Finally, you find stainless steel screws, but you have to buy a bag of fifty of one size.
At my local hardwhere store, I can buy one screw if I want to.
In our area, Lowe's is a little better than Home Depot.
And now I'll give a shout-out to the late Frimbo!
I should probably explain that we did north of 1.25M in sales out of that store ... because B&S ran all its construction provision through it, and when I got prequal and optimized draws set up we always had 7 houses on finance draw with as short a completion time, in weeks where possible, to keep turning over so that was a lot of houses per fiscal year. So we could afford a full custom design center and lots of cheap-end competition and not have to worry about contribution to profitability in keeping the doors open. (In fact when I became AGM the store wasn't really being worked as a retail business effectively; the whole display front was full of the black fittings with about a half inch of dust on them, so "competition" was not the concern that all those Ace and ServiStar seminars about 'how to compete when HD or Lowe's comes to town' are to regular hardware stores...)
Overmod Flintlock76 Hey, you don't patronize the "Big Box" home center and then say "What a shame!" when Pop's Hardware in the old center of town goes out of business. Want to see the reason? Look in the mirror. Know what I mean? Actually this was a common problem at the hardware store in Springhill. We would get customers all the time who would ask long, detailed questions about projects -- 'of course I'm going to buy most of my supplies at Home Depot, but tell me everything I should get, and everything I should do, for free 'cos that's the customer service I expect. (And they would often fill up on a few cups of our complimentary coffee, just like the tradesmen who would scuttle in and scuttle out filling their quart-size Thermos jugs with morning joe for the whole crew 'free'). You get used to the value of noblesse oblige and Christian sufferance in continuing to spread knowledge under such conditions... lemonade, like smiles, is always a better option.
Flintlock76 Hey, you don't patronize the "Big Box" home center and then say "What a shame!" when Pop's Hardware in the old center of town goes out of business. Want to see the reason? Look in the mirror. Know what I mean?
Actually this was a common problem at the hardware store in Springhill. We would get customers all the time who would ask long, detailed questions about projects -- 'of course I'm going to buy most of my supplies at Home Depot, but tell me everything I should get, and everything I should do, for free 'cos that's the customer service I expect. (And they would often fill up on a few cups of our complimentary coffee, just like the tradesmen who would scuttle in and scuttle out filling their quart-size Thermos jugs with morning joe for the whole crew 'free'). You get used to the value of noblesse oblige and Christian sufferance in continuing to spread knowledge under such conditions... lemonade, like smiles, is always a better option.
When I first moved to my present home in 1990 there were 3 hardware stores within 5 miles of my house and one that was about 10 miles from the house. Home Depot built their store 5 miles from the house and less than a mile from 2 of the 3 near stores. One by one they all closed except the one that was 10 miles from my home, which also makes it about 10 miles fromthe Home Depot - they are my 'go to' hardware store - I can find what I want/need without a half hour of wandering around Home Depot to find what I am looking for.
OvermodOn the other hand, when banning is arbitrary, nastily vindictive, and left unexplained it's much harder to justify even in principle...
There it is, in a "walnut" shell.
As an aside, back to hardware stores, there's a locally owned place where I do my hardware shopping. I only go to the "Big Box" place when the local absolutely-positively doesn't have what I need, like lumber. The local doesn't have the space and there's no local lumber yard close.
Flintlock76A problem with a poster? You don't use a sledgehammer to crack a walnut.
On the other hand, when banning is arbitrary, nastily vindictive, and left unexplained it's much harder to justify even in principle...
Flintlock76Hey, you don't patronize the "Big Box" home center and then say "What a shame!" when Pop's Hardware in the old center of town goes out of business. Want to see the reason? Look in the mirror. Know what I mean?
Overmod charlie hebdo But we digress from the topic. Sharing a purloined article or book with active copyright protection on a commercial site like this is illegal. Period. And wrong. And Kalmbach has to enforce it or can be held to account. If members are warned and refuse to follow the forum rules, banishment is entirely appropriate. Everything he said, except that I think moderation is more appropriate than banning for content violations alone, and members are entitled to fair warning of offense, and also fair warning of impending banishment before the ban is imposed, and a full PM explaining the circumstances ... and giving a mechanism for grievance, review, and possible reinstatement rather than leaving it arbitrary and vindictive as it currently is. None of that detracts from the importance of exposing copyrighted material, and it is compounded by the 'searchability' of content on this site which has often resulted in Google and other listings actually including copyrighted text in their results, linking directly to downloadable images without other than circumstantial attribution. All my appreciation of the content, or my opinions that much of it qualifies as fair use, does not make Kalmbach wrong for taking 'their' line on 'their' site.
charlie hebdo But we digress from the topic. Sharing a purloined article or book with active copyright protection on a commercial site like this is illegal. Period. And wrong. And Kalmbach has to enforce it or can be held to account. If members are warned and refuse to follow the forum rules, banishment is entirely appropriate.
Everything he said, except that I think moderation is more appropriate than banning for content violations alone, and members are entitled to fair warning of offense, and also fair warning of impending banishment before the ban is imposed, and a full PM explaining the circumstances ... and giving a mechanism for grievance, review, and possible reinstatement rather than leaving it arbitrary and vindictive as it currently is. None of that detracts from the importance of exposing copyrighted material, and it is compounded by the 'searchability' of content on this site which has often resulted in Google and other listings actually including copyrighted text in their results, linking directly to downloadable images without other than circumstantial attribution.
All my appreciation of the content, or my opinions that much of it qualifies as fair use, does not make Kalmbach wrong for taking 'their' line on 'their' site.
Warnings and moderation were given or offered in Wanswheel's case and I believe he refused. Miningman was repeatedly posting Wanswheel's stuff. Suspension for a specified time period would be more proportional and fair.
Overmod members are entitled to fair warning of offense, and also fair warning of impending banishment before the ban is imposed, and a full PM explaining the circumstances ... and giving a mechanism for grievance, review, and possible reinstatement rather than leaving it arbitrary and vindictive as it currently is.
There it is Brother, and you put it well indeed! The real reason so many of us are annoyed with the banishment of certain Forum posters, especially if those posters are paying subscribers to any Kalmbach publications. I subscribe to three myself, "Trains," "Classic Trains," and "Classic Toy Trains," and as such I'd appreciate a warning if in someone's estimation I went over the line. I've given them my money, I expect a certain amount of courtesy to a customer in return.
Especially in this day and age when so much print media is, for lack of a better term, under assault from various forms of electronic media. I don't have to subscribe to any of the mags I mentioned, but I do because I don't want to see them go away.
Hey, you don't patronize the "Big Box" home center and then say "What a shame!" when Pop's Hardware in the old center of town goes out of business. Want to see the reason? Look in the mirror. Know what I mean?
A problem with a poster? You don't use a sledgehammer to crack a walnut.
charlie hebdoBut we digress from the topic. Sharing a purloined article or book with active copyright protection on a commercial site like this is illegal. Period. And wrong. And Kalmbach has to enforce it or can be held to account. If members are warned and refuse to follow the forum rules, banishment is entirely appropriate.
Overmod Lithonia Operator Technically, that would be a violation. Technically it is not. In fact, it is no different than videotaping copyrighted broadcast programs for purposes of timesharing, which has been proven explicitly legal. (Remember, he said no distribution, which we can interpret here as dissemination even by lending tapes to friends to watch for timesharing purposes). If the book is given or even loaned to someone else and they put it into a form they can read more easily -- so it can be enlarged on screen, for example, or converted text-to-speech via Kurzweil, or made legible via OCR for translation programs -- there is still no violation of fair use; in fact there is some precedent over exactly how much work in editing or modification can be made before the result qualifies as a 'new work' under copyright law. More specifically, the use of scanned books as resources in a closed committee repository was deemed legal -- considered to be the equivalent of sharing a committee member's copy to be read and consulted in their home -- as long as care was taken not to 'let it out uncontrolled' (or do the equivalent for 'charging for home viewing' with videos or amateur plays). As noted there are the equivalent of NDAs, with specified categories of damage and redress for breach, involved with some of these uses, and it would be a courtesy to request permission for these uses.
Lithonia Operator Technically, that would be a violation.
Technically it is not. In fact, it is no different than videotaping copyrighted broadcast programs for purposes of timesharing, which has been proven explicitly legal. (Remember, he said no distribution, which we can interpret here as dissemination even by lending tapes to friends to watch for timesharing purposes).
If the book is given or even loaned to someone else and they put it into a form they can read more easily -- so it can be enlarged on screen, for example, or converted text-to-speech via Kurzweil, or made legible via OCR for translation programs -- there is still no violation of fair use; in fact there is some precedent over exactly how much work in editing or modification can be made before the result qualifies as a 'new work' under copyright law.
More specifically, the use of scanned books as resources in a closed committee repository was deemed legal -- considered to be the equivalent of sharing a committee member's copy to be read and consulted in their home -- as long as care was taken not to 'let it out uncontrolled' (or do the equivalent for 'charging for home viewing' with videos or amateur plays). As noted there are the equivalent of NDAs, with specified categories of damage and redress for breach, involved with some of these uses, and it would be a courtesy to request permission for these uses.
But we digress from the topic. Sharing a purloined article or book with active copyright protection on a commercial site like this is illegal. Period. And wrong. And Kalmbach has to enforce it or can be held to account. If members are warned and refuse to follow the forum rules, banishment is entirely appropriate.
Thanks for the kind offer btw, but I've got a couple tons of legacy that has followed me across the country and back. I don't need to make things any worse.
They're on to you, CO. Keep looking over your shoulder. Get a lawyer, someone smooth like Cousin Vinnie.
Similarly, if I buy a music CD, and rip the contents to my computer....if I perform the rip while not connected to the internet, I'm going to get a collection of nondescript datafiles.....that play just fine on my computer music player.
But if I rip that disc while connected to the internet, all kinds of ancillary information is retrieved from the net to compliment those datafiles, and create a more "multimedia-ish" finished product. To be honest, I have no idea where that ancillary product originates. I always presumed it came from the rights holder...and was a bait of sorts...allowing them to determine if at my IP... only an ocassional CD was being ripped, or if industrial scale mischief might be underway, triggering a deeper interest.
BaltACD Lithonia Operator Convicted One Lithonia Operator So my facetious response was based on that. No foul,..."all in good fun"..etc Let's tie a few loose ends together. You have purchased this Frimbro book. You are the legitimate owner of one copy. In your opinion, do you feel that you have a right to analyze the work, using modern methodology? For instance, to scan the entire work into your personal computer using optical character recognition, so that you could use software tools to find each instance where the word "Harriman" (or whatever, etc) is mentioned in the text? You have copied, but have no intention to distribute...would that cross a line? Technically, that would be a violation. (In addition to being an odious, mind-numbing task.) However, no one would know, so I would not get busted. It would be like that tree in the forest that falls and no one is there to see or hear it. If I send you the Frimbo book, and you wish to do this mega-scan, I won't tell a soul. More seriously, if you want this book when I'm done with it, I'll send it and a few other strays to you. At some point, I need to start unloading books. If either my wife or I got seriously ill, and we felt a need to move to a condo to be closer to medical facilities in Portland, the sheer volume of stuff we'd need to dispose of is staggering. A lifetime of "stuff." But I degress. Or go the IKEA route - distribute the book at the individual letter level so the next 'purchaser' can assemble it for himself. [/sarcasm]
Lithonia Operator Convicted One Lithonia Operator So my facetious response was based on that. No foul,..."all in good fun"..etc Let's tie a few loose ends together. You have purchased this Frimbro book. You are the legitimate owner of one copy. In your opinion, do you feel that you have a right to analyze the work, using modern methodology? For instance, to scan the entire work into your personal computer using optical character recognition, so that you could use software tools to find each instance where the word "Harriman" (or whatever, etc) is mentioned in the text? You have copied, but have no intention to distribute...would that cross a line? Technically, that would be a violation. (In addition to being an odious, mind-numbing task.) However, no one would know, so I would not get busted. It would be like that tree in the forest that falls and no one is there to see or hear it. If I send you the Frimbo book, and you wish to do this mega-scan, I won't tell a soul. More seriously, if you want this book when I'm done with it, I'll send it and a few other strays to you. At some point, I need to start unloading books. If either my wife or I got seriously ill, and we felt a need to move to a condo to be closer to medical facilities in Portland, the sheer volume of stuff we'd need to dispose of is staggering. A lifetime of "stuff." But I degress.
Convicted One Lithonia Operator So my facetious response was based on that. No foul,..."all in good fun"..etc Let's tie a few loose ends together. You have purchased this Frimbro book. You are the legitimate owner of one copy. In your opinion, do you feel that you have a right to analyze the work, using modern methodology? For instance, to scan the entire work into your personal computer using optical character recognition, so that you could use software tools to find each instance where the word "Harriman" (or whatever, etc) is mentioned in the text? You have copied, but have no intention to distribute...would that cross a line?
Lithonia Operator So my facetious response was based on that.
No foul,..."all in good fun"..etc
Let's tie a few loose ends together. You have purchased this Frimbro book. You are the legitimate owner of one copy.
In your opinion, do you feel that you have a right to analyze the work, using modern methodology? For instance, to scan the entire work into your personal computer using optical character recognition, so that you could use software tools to find each instance where the word "Harriman" (or whatever, etc) is mentioned in the text?
You have copied, but have no intention to distribute...would that cross a line?
Technically, that would be a violation. (In addition to being an odious, mind-numbing task.)
However, no one would know, so I would not get busted. It would be like that tree in the forest that falls and no one is there to see or hear it.
If I send you the Frimbo book, and you wish to do this mega-scan, I won't tell a soul.
More seriously, if you want this book when I'm done with it, I'll send it and a few other strays to you. At some point, I need to start unloading books.
If either my wife or I got seriously ill, and we felt a need to move to a condo to be closer to medical facilities in Portland, the sheer volume of stuff we'd need to dispose of is staggering. A lifetime of "stuff." But I degress.
Or go the IKEA route - distribute the book at the individual letter level so the next 'purchaser' can assemble it for himself. [/sarcasm]
"Make sure to assemble the pages in order. Every fourth page has a numeral at a bottom corner."
Lithonia OperatorTechnically, that would be a violation.
If either my wife or I got seriously ill, and we felt a need to move to a condo to be closer to medical facilities in Portland, the sheer volume of stuff we'd need to dispose of is staggering. A lifetime of "stuff." But I digress.
Lithonia OperatorSo my facetious response was based on that.
Let's tie a few loose ends together. You have purchased this Frimbo book. You are the legitimate owner of one copy.
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