BNSF employment opportunity or stay in military...what do I do?

[Anonymous]

Hello all,

Currently, I have nearly 10 years in the U.S. Air Force and I am trying to make a huge life decision. I work outdoors in all types of weather and definetly know what 24/7 a week is. I operate expensive machinery and test equipment while maintaining multi-million dollar aircraft...I have not reenlisted yet, and don't really want to. I want to be a conductor for BNSF. My brother and many other relatives of mine are conductors/engineers with BNSF(mostly around AZ), so I can relate to the good and bad sides of the job.

Here's my problems in making the decision (I've already applied for a position about 200 miles from my home in Texas)

1. I only need 10 years more of service to receive a 50% military retirement plus current benefits are good. Should I stay in the military or do what I really want to do?
2. My wife is scared if I get hired that we will go bankrupt due to the lower training pay...I told her it would be a rough start, but it will get a lot better...
3. I have a house payment and really don't want to sell if I have to relocate(may not get what it's worth to pay off mortgage)...I would just commute, which would be even more time away from the wife and kids.
4. If I stay in the military, I'll be sent overseas again soon...which I'm not really up for.

I feel pretty confident that I could get an interview, but I actually don't seperate until June. What is the normal timing from the job posting expiring- to getting notified of the interview-to actually starting trainingg. I'm afraid they will look at my date of availability and skip me for awhile.

Thanks for reading, I just would like some opinions from someone other than my family.

nine

[Valleyline]

Sounds like you're between a rock and a hard place. Major life decisions are always difficult but if you consider the welfare of your family as being the major factor in your decision you should be able to make a sound decision. From what I've heard from railroaders is that pool service on a major railroad is not conducive to a healthy family life. You should also consider the possibility of using your military aircraft skills in a civilian setting either after retirement in another 10 years or now, if you really want to forego that 50% retirement.

[arbfbe]

The training pay will not last all that long and the bene's are pretty good. The next couple of contracts on the RRs will likely result in lower pay though.

Commuting long distances after working long shifts starting or finishing in the wee hours of the morning are not to be recommended.

If you apply now you might be called tomorrow and expected to report the following day or you might not hear from them until August. If you think things can be fubar in the Air Force listen to your relatives who work for the railroad.

The Air Force will probably respect your skills and experience far more than the railroad ever will.

Your life, your choice.

[Anonymous]

valleyline,

You see, I don't want to work on aircraft anymore...now or for another ten years or more.
You probably wouldn't consider my position in the military conducive to family life either. I don't work 9-5. I work during the day, or swings, or graves, but that's what I'm used to. I don't mind getting called in all the time working 13 hours, even if I'm supposed to be off-duty. I've been out of the country and away from my family for long periods of time. It's hard, but my relationship with my family is stronger for that. I appreciate your post, I hope I can get some more opinions...

Thanks, nine

[Anonymous]

Thanks arbfbe,
The appreciation factor in the military is not and hasn't been great for awhile (which if it was would aid in keeping up morale and reenlistments). My brother thinks I could transition to the railroad just fine, however he wasn't supporting a family when he hired out. The commuting thing is something that may or may not happen,,,depending on which location I could get hired out at.

Are thre some new hires out there who might have an opinion on this?

[Anonymous]

The way world politics are developing, to continue in the service might put you in harm's way in some overseas country. Much less likely to get shot while working on the trains; not impossible, but much less probable.

On the other hand, there have already been so many new hires, that if the railroads ever succeed in getting one-man crews, there will be lots of furloughed railroaders; the military is much more secure job-wise.

What do your family members say? Perhaps their input would be helpful. But do not decide based just on what they want; if the relationship does not last, will you be doing something you want to be doing, or something your ex wanted you to do?

Are there any kids involved? How do they feel about it?

And remember, when the novelty of the new railroad job wears off, it will be just like it is now: lousy hours, lousy working conditions, supervisors that are college-educated idiots; in other words, same stuff, different scenery.

[dharmon]

Nine,

I was in your position a few years ago. We hit the ten year mark and I had to decide on whether to stay in and take follow on orders, which pretty much committed me at that point or get out and join the airlines, who were hiring everyone with a pulse. I stayed in and will retire in a few years to figure out what to do with the rest of my life. Most of my peers that got out at that time have been furlowed, and some may not get thier jobs back. They scrape by on what Reserve deals they can scam and working at Home Depot, trying to decide whether or not to find a permanent job or wait it out.

The ten year point is hard...it really is, because it's really the last chance to jump before doing so becomes foolish. After that, you might as well stay for the long haul. But you have re-enlisted at least once, so you know the drill.

Some things to think about......

- 10 years....would probably make you a senior E5, E6 or fast moving 7 ( If Nine is the paygrade and not just the nickname...you're burning it up....in line for MSGT of the AF). So, including BAH and any other allowances, you will initally at least take a pay cut. So start saving now to cover that period and get as much debt paid off prior to getting out. In a few years, if everything goes well you should be making more than when you got out. If you can't afford to make the jump, you can't jump. If you can bear the lean period without putting your family at the parent's house, then you're better prepared than most. If not then it's too late. Hang on and roll at 20 and take the 50%. If nothing else, that will cover the mortgage payment, plus you still have benefits. You may not achieve the highest RR retirement packages starting at 38-40, but you will always have the Uncle's monthly check and a hospital to see you.

- Going to the RRs is no guarantee you won't have to move in the future, and you may end up spending less time at home than you do now, even figuring in deployments. I would presume, that unless you get a job like Ed Blysard's, your home life is going to be no more stable then it is now. And from reading here most folks don't seem to get picked up on their first try. I've lived overseas too, and it's not so bad.

- If you do go, all the support structure...TriCare, Concordia (well that's not a huge plus there) and all that will go away. I'm not sure what the RRs provide for family coverage.

- You can always join the Reserves, though you'd have to get a railroader's perspective on how the companies view it. 1) It will help supplement the lean times, 2) you get to keep some benefits , and 3) it will keep you proficient in your field should the RRs start laying off....ie keeps food on the table

I know these are all things that you have probably considered. I would recommend taking a Transition Assistance Class. They go over much of this and can help put things in perspective.

Bottom line: If you really, really don't like what your doing now and really, really want to go to the RRs, then you need to jump and figure out a way to make it. If not, then give yourself the ten more years to prepare and get the kids out of or almost out of school and then take the plunge.

[arbfbe]

If you do not want to work on aircraft any more then the die has been cast hasn't it? There is not much lateral movement in the military to another MOS is there?

Hurry on down to the State Emlpoyment office and get started with the application process. Both the BNSF and UP also have applications on their web sites. They may have openings at locations far from where you live now. if you get hired expect 60 to 80 hour work weeks and maybe a day off every couple of months if things are not too busy. At least you will have some technical skills and experience to fall back on.

Best Wishes.

[Anonymous]

You may want to investigate if the terminal you want to work out of has major yard operations. I'm transfering to Indy, and it's actually easier for me to hold yard jobs than road jobs. And with yard jobs you know you'll be home every day/night. Happiness is the key, just make sure you have everything covered and well planned out. And, as for benefits, my entire family is covered, and I just have to pay a $100 monthly premium. Just weight everything in your mind, sure it may be scary to change your whole life, but it could also be worth it. Just talk to your family first and make sure they understand or are even willing. Good luck in all you do, and don't hesitate to ask the good folks on this forum for help.

[Anonymous]

I've been in the Air Force for nearly 18 years with 90% of my time spent overseas. I tried to get hired on with several different railroads when I graduated from high school in 1986, but was unsuccessful. So I decided the AF was the way to go. It's been pretty good to me, no complaints there. I was at about my 12 year mark with my enlistment nearly finished when Norfolk Southern was hiring in the Fort Wayne, Indiana area during the late 90's. It was so tempting for me, but like you had a family to consider along with tons of other things. I decided not to take the chance and rode it out. If I were single at the time or had no children I would have definitely "crossed over into the black (NS)."

If you don't like your aircraft AFSC, consider cross training if your career field is eligible. I did and it was a great decision for me. With just a little over 2 years left now, I'm hoping the railroads will be hiring then as they are now. NS, UP, BNSF are all posting conductor/train service positions on their websites. CSX also has some sort of "railroad college" that guarantees you employment with them if you're able to get accepted into the program. It runs around $4,300.

Like you deployments, long hours, always on the move, harsh conditions, adapting to constant change, and being outside in the elements to name a few....I've dealt with those also and would continue to deal with many of those factors working on the railroad. I'll gladly make the sacrifice.

The ultimate decision is yours. Discuss it thoroughly with your wife and include your children too. Yes, we all know deployments are on the rise due to the AEF implementation a few years back, so you may want to consider that too. Iraq is tough duty, especially in the summer when I was there last year. The 50% retirement isn't a gold mine, but it will make for a nice mortgage payment and it's a constant monthly income. Decisions, decisions, decisions!! If I were to rewind it all, I'm sure I would have chosen to stay in again...of course I was at 12 and you're at 10.

Let us know what you choose and best of luck whatever course you take.

Ed

[daveklepper]

Is there any way you can arrange a cross-service transfer and end up in the USArmy Transportation Corps as a Military Railroader? I would think all your existing training would apply, although you might have to suffer with basic training again, and the question of rank equivancy might not be resolved as perfectly as you would like. If I were in your position, that is the first avenue I would explore.

[jimrice4449]

There are to factors I'd suggest considering.
Family time. In the military you take huge hits on the RR it's constant nibbling. You make a run from A to B and you layover away from home for ? and then you make a run home from B to A and try to get some rest. You can be called again 8 hours from getting home.
Job security I moved from the SP in Calif to the Milw in Idaho. After three years the Milw went under. I hired out on the BN. It took two years before I could hold a job all year (and then it was on an outlying local that went to work and tied up at a remote location) Then Jimmy Carter's recession hit and I didn't turn a wheel for 22 months. When I got called back I only worked 3 or 4 months the firs year. It wasn't until the winter of 87-88 that I worked all your w/o being furloughed/
On the other hand I spent 3 year in the armt (all but the last 6 months in the infantry and 2 yrs 3 months of it overseas) and the happiest day of my life was when I was separated.

[88gta350]

IMHO, if you've already put in 10 years, stick it out for another 10 to get your retirement, then you can afford to do what you really want to do and pull in 2 checks while keeping the govt benefits. Several guys where I work are retired military. the pay here is good, but the benefits suck, so they make out good. They get a second income and keep the great federal benefits. Stay another 10 years, then decide what you want to do, whether it's railroading or something else.

[Anonymous]

equinox, dharmon, stehenson, cookmeister, ed, klepper, adrian, rice4449, 88gta350, arbfbe, and valleyline,

Thanks so much for the posts and taking the time to read mine.

I know it probably makes sense to stick with a "sure thing" like the U. S. Air Force, and my wife agrees. She's worried about me not being around for the kids (ages 4 1/2 years & 2 years). I too don't like the idea of being away from them (and her), however I know that "getting on" with the railroad is my best bet if I get out.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but a conductor position on the railroad is the only career I know of that starts paying the amount it does without having a bachelors degree (minus the lay-offs). The town where I'm at now doesn't start too many people above $8.00-10.00 an hour and most good jobs want the degrees. With the new military pay increase (I'm an E5), I make about $28,000 per year, plus about $13,000 per year for housing and food allowances, with free medical and dental for me, plus almost free medical for my family. So yes, the U. S. military is secure and good paying, but I am burned-out with it. I didn't join the Air Force for the money or college, but I did it mostly because I wanted to serve my country and get out of a crap-hole town. Well, now I'm fulfilled with my service to my country. I busted my butt, volunteering off-duty hours to clean-up others' mistakes, which only helped more slackers make rank. I'm not bitter, as I know any job will have it's ups and downs. I've been given advice to do what makes me happy...but is it really my happiness that I'm concerned about? I HAVE to do for my family. I'm sorry, working fulltime at Home Depot or Wal-Mart won't cut it for me. A railroad position is what I think will make me happy and still provide for my family.... I don't know what I'm ranting about anymore... I want to support and provide a good life for the family. I want to get out of the military. I want to hire on with the railroad. That kind of sounds selfish, but I feel I will be the biggest A**hole if I stay in the military just for the sake of financial "security". Most people I've talked to are fed up with their military position, they just want to "hang in there", not only for benefits, but because they are scared of a transition to the real world. Eventually, they got to do it, if they don't have a heart attack first.

I just have to weigh a lot of things out in my head. I honestly don't know if I'll get out, but I'm leaning that way. My resume's in and we'll see... You guys are great, and appreciate you letting me express my stress.

[daveklepper]

Hey, the $28K isn't as bad as it seems. Free housing and some free food is on top of that pay, and service PX's had bargains when I was in the service compared to prices off-post.

[Anonymous]

I have two reasons to work for the railroad:
1.) The mortality rate is lower, and
2.) If you decide you don't like it, you're not committed for ten years.
I think you are making the right choice going to the railroad.

Sincerely,
Daniel Parks

[Anonymous]

daveklepper & trainjunky29,

Well, that's 28,000 plus 13,000 not taxed = 41,000 at Staff Sergeant. It took me (almost) ten years to reach that pay too (I've been a staff sergeant for nearly 5 years). It sounds better than in the past and it is. As an E1, I only started out at a little over $250 every payday (plus room & board). Today, most the Air Force kids (and I mean kids) start out at E3 pay with bonuses for signing up for 6 years. A new recruit makes more now than I did as an experienced E4 just a few years ago. The money for the military has gotten better (just the money), and it had to...otherwise you would have seen the dreaded draft to keep military forces strong. The bad thing about the new "kids" is that the military had to lower their standard to keep a steady flow of recruits coming in (and pay them bonuses). I always believed that common sense ruled, but now a days we get kids in the aircraft maintenance career field that have never had a job before signing up; literally getting an allowance until the day they got on the bus. Some don't know the difference between a phillips screwdriver and an adjustable wrench (not kidding) even after tech. training. That's a lot of who I get to train, supervise and work with on a $236 million aircraft. We had a parent (who's son got kicked out) call up and scream "you guys were supposed to make my son a man", and the response was - "we don't raise your kids, that's your job, you're supposed to send us capable young men (and women)". Sorry for ranting again...
Yeah, despite my complaints, it's not too terrible, I love and serve my country and would die for any a**hole for the sake of freedom. But now it feels like my time is done. I will have memories and friends from the military that I will always keep.

[Anonymous]

I hired on as a conductor last June. My kids are pretty much all grown up so the schedule doesn't really affect them. I would think differently if they were younger. Personally, I am rethinking the whole railroad thing. The work is not stable, no matter what they tell you at the railroad. Management (mismanagement) is awful. I have been battling since thanksgiving to get paid. Crew management does whatever it pleases irregardless of your needs. I worked with a guy the other night who couldn't get time off to visit his very ill father. This is during a time when not all of our conductors are even working. Think very hard about your family's happiness. They hopefully will still be there after the railroad is done using you! I will warn you that a very high percentage of my coworkers are divorced. It is a very real risk. Geoff

[CSXrules4eva]

hummmmmm . . . . . . .. . .look what I have to look forward to. I guess w/ the good aspects of the job comes the bad. It seems as if it really gets hard when you have a family, and kids to take care of. I don't have any of those yet but, I do want to get married later on in my life. Well, I guess I'll see what happens, huh?.....

[Anonymous]

markncarol: Over the years I have known many railroad people. (My mothers family built railroads). These folks (Roy's folks) have been everyone from MOW laborers to execs. All of them would in times of open honesty would tell you that the railroad is a jelious and demanding mistress that resents anyone or everyone when compared to its needs and demands. Myself being a veteran of the powerhouse construction trades and operations as well as financial services and state DOT's can tell you that no other trade has anything on the demands and dedication required of train crews. If it is truly youre desire is to be a part of that Dynamic American Forse that had a big hand in building this country and keeps things moving today and are willing to work out the sacrifices and challenges that go with it, Go for it. If however you do not have that willingness your question raised at the beginnning of this thread is indeed well timed and placed.

[modorney]

If you can switch to an AFSC you like, consider staying in the reserves or National Guard. You already have 10 good years (3600 points?) and another 10 in the reserves should give you another 600 or 700. Plus you can rack up a few more doing things like Civil Air Patrol.

At 65, your retirement won't be half of 7200 points (20 years) but more like half of 13 years. Somebody with better numbers, please correct my numbers.

You may want to find an Army reserve/NG unit that is railroad related.

Many employers are interested in military people. And they have a fast-track/orientation for them.

You may want to consider transit positions. I work for BART, and you may like that kind of railroading. It's not for everybody, but it pays about 29 bucks an hour, and there's lots of overtime, if you want it. And, yes, you are home every night.

[Anonymous]

im a driver for Virgin Trains here in the .UK. I saw service in the military in Bosnia.Changing my life was the best thing i did.I also had a minimum wage whilst training ( some 15 months) but it gradually increased and now its the best job ill ever have.Whilst in Bosnia i was shot at loads of times and i was away from the wife and kids at 6 months at a time. In this job im always home, great pay and never been shot at, well only once anyway! I deferred payments on my morgage till i was on good pay. Can you do the same?

[Anonymous]

Stay in the Military. The last ten years will go faster than you think. That retirement really comes in handy in the civilian world. I retired from the Navy in 1995, and I have worked for the Norfolk Southern and most recently Amtrak since 1996. It is worth it to stay in.

Bob

[Anonymous]

Great news! I've been invited for a test/exam with BNSF in mid February. If I pass the tests, I'll get an interview the same or next day. This will be my only shot. If it doesn't work out, I'm going to stay in the Air Force (and probably retrain into another field). Thank you everybody for letting me express my worries and your previous replys. Wish me luck!

[ValleyX]

Listen, good luck. I can tell you that in my part of the railroad world, we have many ex-military people, both those who did their full twenty and retired and those who did one enlistment or two or even three and then left because, as I've heard over and over, they got tired of the "kids" and the stupid bull.

You'll find the railroad has some stupid bull, too, and it won't be all spring days and rose gardens but it's all what you make of it. The divorce issue always comes up with someone asks about railroad life but I know many who've never been divorced, a lot of divorces seem to come from what the railroader does when he's on the "other end of the road", I'm speaking as a lifer rail when I say that. If you're a road employee, especially, it does wreck all pretensions of a social life, though, be forewarned.

Good luck and thanks for your service.