Intermodal swan song

[Overmod]

You question you said this at 8:46 and then reaffirm it at 9:32?

Doesn't matter: it's true.  And I think the same about open access, even limited access over still-private or partly-private ROW as an intermediate step.

Incidentally, as part of the discussion of 'academic' contributions to practical civil engineering, I'm mentioning the contributions that are possible from facilitated interdisciplinary coordination or interest.  One example is McCullough's TRB paper from 1996 analyzing the then cost of road v. rail, something with a better idea of the overall 'cost' of the two than simplistic "cost-benefit" even conducted by careful engineers.  It would be interesting to read how ttrraaffiicc, Gillings et al. might amend their 'numbers' in this somewhat expanded framework.

http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/archive/conferences/railworkshop/background-McCullough.pdf

[charlie hebdo]

In my opinion,  a major focus for improvement should be the interface between rail transport and road to and from origin and delivery nodes. 

[Backshop]

tree68

Another twist - on my way to a wedding this past weekend, I fired up the GPS on my tablet.  I knew most of the route - it was the "last mile" I wasn't sure of - and the app also gives your ETA, so I could track my timing.

As I said, I knew the way, and it was all secondary roads.  The poor lady in the GPS was pulling her hair out (figuratively) as I ignored all attempts to get me on the Interstate, which would actually have been out of my way.   

That's why I don't let my wife turn on the GPS until we get to the "final mile".  Of course, I also still like planning out my routes using a Rand McNally road atlas.

Quick story--my sister doesn't believe in road maps..."I have apps".  Once, several years ago, my wife and I were coming back from the Traverse City area and her and my niece were heading up there.  We decided to meet for lunch at a restaurant in Empire, right next to Sleeping Bear Dunes NLS.  She should have been there in 15 minutes but wasn't there for much longer.  It turned out she lost cellphone reception and drove 30 miles out of her way.  I still had to give her a roadmap because she didn't think it was that important.

[charlie hebdo]

Overmod

 

 

charlie hebdo

RRs can drive labor productivity the same way.  One man crews.  Longer crew districts.  Automation of various places and operations like intermodal terminals.   They can also electrify all sorts of machinery other than train operations including pickup and delivery dray, and become "energy source agnostic".

 

 

The possibilities have been ever so much greater, and more interesting, and truthfully for many years.

Start by assuming little more than Kneiling's independently-propelled rakes of cars amenable to easy and cheap intermodal loading (or low-tare operation), and then extend it by the model proposed for the industrial trackage in central New Jersey using small-unit equipment (I believe their proposed equipment was the German CargoSpeed lightweight 'freight trolley' sort of equipment, nominally double-unit articulated, which could easily be adapted for hybrid or multimode power).  Then look for a moment at your 2040 blocking.  There is no objective technical reason why your 'blocks' could not be functionally reduced to aggregates of self-propelled and now self-guiding vehicles, travelling at any approximation of track speed as the equivalent of 'slip coaches' detach and attach themselves adaptively.  While it would be nice if large numbers of destinations were actively rail-capable, that is neither expedient or necessary in a truck-enabled world ... a short-distance, be-home-every-night world facilitating good driver living wage and working condition for the work that can't be cost-effectively made autonomous ... but now any number of 'small ramp' operations or even ad hoc pads become quick and direct intermodal transfer locations, rather than excuses to park hard-to-switch flats where someone might bumble up to them in time.  

Now as charlie hebdo noted earlier, coordinate ownership or assured control between a sufficient pool of yard and road tractor operators and the railroads involved.  Little more than the Uber code (likely available as IP far sooner than ttrraaffiicc's anticipated death of railroading!) would be needed to set up effective JIT intermodal transfer, almost regardless of special or emergent circumstances or even emergency conditions.  Traffic jam? divert on the fly to a known 'alternate route' for all concerned, and quickly implement the operation.

Now I confess I'm still 'with' Kneiling on this being something easier to set up and run 'agile' with operating entities on an 'iron ocean' access model, which is another of charlie hebdo's desiderata.  Here expect the necessary capital and operating scale to be less, and hidebound PSR blinders far less 'inoperative' than for present large railroads ... perhaps a return to the express-company model of manifest freight provision is a possibility?

 

 

The trick is to get working on this stuff NOW, while you have the cash flow.

 

 

Ain't it the truth... but also true is that future sources of capital, including 'populist' governments, will find that this is both more atomistic and more scalable than national high-outlay public conversion, and doesn't have that nasty s-word to confuse the sheep.  Merely legislating open access, in such a context, might go a long way both toward getting railroads to straighten up and fly better and toward making quality service via proper cybernetics and execution more 'mainstream' and 'default' behavior...

 

All the stuff to do this really existed (although not in robust or refined form) in the late '70s -- it is far easier and better today, and with the development of autonomous operation as a perceived cash cow, will only dramatically increase in coming years.  Any good team of college engineers in a contest can get you a reasonably good operating model; their coordination with econ and business students will likely make that reasonably cost-effective...

 

All of the cited comment was from Don Oltmann,  not me.  Perhaps another glitch in that fantastic Calmbrook software? 

[tree68]

BaltACD

  While traffic was directed off I-95 no traffic direction was provided along the detour route - all traffic lights operated, all Stop signs had to be obeyed - several left turns had to be made in the face of on coming traffic.

Another twist - on my way to a wedding this past weekend, I fired up the GPS on my tablet.  I knew most of the route - it was the "last mile" I wasn't sure of - and the app also gives your ETA, so I could track my timing.

As I said, I knew the way, and it was all secondary roads.  The poor lady in the GPS was pulling her hair out (figuratively) as I ignored all attempts to get me on the Interstate, which would actually have been out of my way.  

Imagine that self driving truck encountering a similar situation with a detour...

[BaltACD]

tree68

 

York1

That's interesting, and something I hadn't thought of. 

I direct traffic at accidents quite a bit.  I certainly wouldn't look forward to that truck plowing through my scene. 

To add another twist - how will the self-driving truck handle the temporary detour I want it to take?

I was towing from Jacksonville to Savannah for a race a number of years ago.  Accident on I-95 NB somewhere North of Exit 29 - ALL TRAFFIC was directed to detour on 2 lane local roads and reentered I-95 at about Mile 46.  The normal 2 hour trip took a little over 6 hours.  While traffic was directed off I-95 no traffic direction was provided along the detour route - all traffic lights operated, all Stop signs had to be obeyed - several left turns had to be made in the face of on coming traffic.  Fun times! [/sarcasm]

[tree68]

York1

That's interesting, and something I hadn't thought of.

I direct traffic at accidents quite a bit.  I certainly wouldn't look forward to that truck plowing through my scene. 

To add another twist - how will the self-driving truck handle the temporary detour I want it to take?

[York1]

Electroliner 1935

You or I could understand a gesture to go left or right but could the sensors? The driver didn't think so nor do I. 

 

That's interesting, and something I hadn't thought of.

 

[Electroliner 1935]

Gramp

Just saw 60 Minutes. Had a report on Tu Simple driverless truck tech. from Arizona. Have to be skeptical because it's 60 Minutes, but it sure was convincing. Addressed many of the issues discussed here on the forum. 

And there was the interview with a truck driver who mentioned an experience where a state trooper was directing traffic with hand signals and wondered how a driverless truck could respond to such an anomaly. You or I could understand a gesture to go left or right but could the sensors? The driver didn't think so nor do I. 

[Gramp]

Just saw 60 Minutes. Had a report on Tu Simple driverless truck tech. from Arizona. Have to be skeptical because it's 60 Minutes, but it sure was convincing. Addressed many of the issues discussed here on the forum. 

[Overmod]

charlie hebdo

RRs can drive labor productivity the same way.  One man crews.  Longer crew districts.  Automation of various places and operations like intermodal terminals.   They can also electrify all sorts of machinery other than train operations including pickup and delivery dray, and become "energy source agnostic".

The possibilities have been ever so much greater, and more interesting, and truthfully for many years.

Start by assuming little more than Kneiling's independently-propelled rakes of cars amenable to easy and cheap intermodal loading (or low-tare operation), and then extend it by the model proposed for the industrial trackage in central New Jersey using small-unit equipment (I believe their proposed equipment was the German CargoSpeed lightweight 'freight trolley' sort of equipment, nominally double-unit articulated, which could easily be adapted for hybrid or multimode power).  Then look for a moment at your 2040 blocking.  There is no objective technical reason why your 'blocks' could not be functionally reduced to aggregates of self-propelled and now self-guiding vehicles, travelling at any approximation of track speed as the equivalent of 'slip coaches' detach and attach themselves adaptively.  While it would be nice if large numbers of destinations were actively rail-capable, that is neither expedient or necessary in a truck-enabled world ... a short-distance, be-home-every-night world facilitating good driver living wage and working condition for the work that can't be cost-effectively made autonomous ... but now any number of 'small ramp' operations or even ad hoc pads become quick and direct intermodal transfer locations, rather than excuses to park hard-to-switch flats where someone might bumble up to them in time.  

Now as charlie hebdo noted earlier, coordinate ownership or assured control between a sufficient pool of yard and road tractor operators and the railroads involved.  Little more than the Uber code (likely available as IP far sooner than ttrraaffiicc's anticipated death of railroading!) would be needed to set up effective JIT intermodal transfer, almost regardless of special or emergent circumstances or even emergency conditions.  Traffic jam? divert on the fly to a known 'alternate route' for all concerned, and quickly implement the operation.

Now I confess I'm still 'with' Kneiling on this being something easier to set up and run 'agile' with operating entities on an 'iron ocean' access model, which is another of charlie hebdo's desiderata.  Here expect the necessary capital and operating scale to be less, and hidebound PSR blinders far less 'inoperative' than for present large railroads ... perhaps a return to the express-company model of manifest freight provision is a possibility?

The trick is to get working on this stuff NOW, while you have the cash flow.

Ain't it the truth... but also true is that future sources of capital, including 'populist' governments, will find that this is both more atomistic and more scalable than national high-outlay public conversion, and doesn't have that nasty s-word to confuse the sheep.  Merely legislating open access, in such a context, might go a long way both toward getting railroads to straighten up and fly better and toward making quality service via proper cybernetics and execution more 'mainstream' and 'default' behavior...

All the stuff to do this really existed (although not in robust or refined form) in the late '70s -- it is far easier and better today, and with the development of autonomous operation as a perceived cash cow, will only dramatically increase in coming years.  Any good team of college engineers in a contest can get you a reasonably good operating model; their coordination with econ and business students will likely make that reasonably cost-effective...

[charlie hebdo]

oltmannd

Okay, sure.  Platooning, driverless, whatever.  RRs can drive labor productivity the same way.  One man crews.  Longer crew districts.  Automation of various places and operations like intermodal terminals.  

They can also electrify all sorts of machinery other than train operations including pickup and delivery dray, and become "energy source agnostic".

The trick is to get working on this stuff NOW, while you have the cash flow.  If you spend all your PSR generated cash by buying ice cream cones for shareholders, the game might be over before the ice cream starts to melt.

 

True.  Right now,  the UP main has a lot of container trains.  If integration with pickup and delivery can be expedited soon,  the losses of bulk cargoes like coal can be more than overcome. 

[Bruce D Gillings]

Generally, I think ttrraaffiicc is calling this one right. The existential threat to railroading – intermodal and non-unit train carload traffic – is real. It is not a singular event that will happen one day.  Rather, it is a creeping shift in how freight moves that has been going on since roads were paved, but that shift is accelerating. Take away bulk traffic and railroading is in deep trouble as a viable supply chain partner. Unless some structural changes occur in transportation policy in our nation, and the nature of investing in railroading changes, much of today’s railroading will disappear.

 

The challenges to converting the urban element of OTR trucking to anything other than “driver managed” will be extremely big.  But for the most part irrelevant. Urban OTR operations are essentially equal to urban intermodal drayage. Add in navigating a ramp area, and intermodal drayage is at a cost disadvantage to OTR urban trucking out the gate. The biggest Achilles heel for intermodal, prior to the implementation of PSR (an oxymoron if ever there was one), has always been the drayage factor. Where platooning, AV, and electric will change the cost equation dramatically is in the line-haul part of OTR trucking vs. railroading: the drayage problem won’t go away.

 

Historically, automation has been about replacing humans where tasks are repetitive and part of a linear process. The application of that to moving a vehicle of any kind over a distance has been fraught with too many variables. The AI revolution occurring now in manufacturing and logistics is profound: I have seen nothing like it in my 45 years of industrial design and construction (manufacturing, food processing, distribution centers). We are now in the early years of machines that can sense, differentiate, evaluate, learn, and “make” decisions. The process is becoming non-linear: it is about matrices of many, many processes functioning simultaneous (sorry, that’s as technical as I can get…).  As with any major change, there are errors, weak spots, even catastrophic failures, and there will be more. But as history shows, it is a matter of time. I can’t say if we are talking about a decade or two decades.  But no more than that. The brightest minds and biggest money are behind it: the stakes are high. The impact on transportation that I see is consistent with what ttrraaffiicc is saying. The only question is “when”?

 

There are other looming game changers. LCVs nationwide plus heavier loads (either axel loads or overall trailer loads through increased axels). In parts of the nation and Canada already heavier loads for specific commodities are allowed (ie: bulk raw milk in Wisconsin). And not just LCVs, but also simply allowing 57’ or 60’ trailers makes OTR far more competitive. Double stack is often at weight limits to the point where heavily-loaded domestic boxes need to be single-stacked if the combined loadings on a well exceed the loading on each bearing set of trucks. You can argue all you want about how our roads have too much truck traffic pounding them into terrible shape and that trucks don’t pay for them and the public won’t take it anymore. Sorry, the public is oblivious to those sorts of things and just wants to be entertained, not have to think. And the lobbying money on heavier and more trucks is not from the truckers themselves, it’s from the shippers – where all the money is. Politicians of both parties know that.

 

The obsession with the efficiency of steel wheels on steel rails vs. rubber tires on pavement ignores all of the inefficiencies that take that steel wheel advantage away. Circuity is a big one.  Poorly located ramps is another.  1800s and early 1900s mainline alignments that are civil engineering anachronisms (ie: roughly 300 miles of the 1100 miles between LA and Portland; most of the South).  Moving goods from shipping to receiving is more than just steel efficiencies: it is all of the components of the delivery process.  And now supply chain partners are monetizing the true cost of the unpredictability of rail, whether it is carload or intermodal.  And those “efficiencies” of steel wheels on steel rails disappear, and trucks become the more cost-effective mode in all but a few cases.

 

[oltmannd]

Okay, sure.  Platooning, driverless, whatever.  RRs can drive labor productivity the same way.  One man crews.  Longer crew districts.  Automation of various places and operations like intermodal terminals.  

They can also electrify all sorts of machinery other than train operations including pickup and delivery dray, and become "energy source agnostic".

The trick is to get working on this stuff NOW, while you have the cash flow.  If you spend all your PSR generated cash by buying ice cream cones for shareholders, the game might be over before the ice cream starts to melt.

[tree68]

Gramp

Wisconsin now charges a $75 annual license fee surcharge on hybrids whether they're plug-in or not. The nonplug-in's are just more efficient vehicles; not getting lower tax electricity from the grid. 

Given that some significant portion of the money for building and maintaing roads comes from gas taxes, I would opine it's a way to extract said tax from those who aren't paying it because they're not buying gas.

Energy is money.  If  you have a water source in your yard you could use to generate hydroelectric power (to charge your electric car), you'd still need to register the turbine with the feds.

[samfp1943]

SD60MAC9500

Overmod

SD60MAC9500

Platooning could happen now, yet it doesn't as there's no cost or speed benefit.

 

 

You must not have spent very much time driving in the West, at least in the late 1970s or early 1990s.  I have experienced many instances of 'convoys' conducting close drafting, with far less than a typical car length between; in fact (with a little judicious 'clearing' and permission illegally arranged over the CB) I have run in them.  They are only borderline legal, and objectively unsafe as hell, but very real fuel conservation results from the reduction of head-end resistance even absent considerations that 'vacuum drafting' as NASCAR practices it has elements of a net zero-sum game.

The 70's were before my time. I've traveled a many road trips throughout the West; I-5, I-8, I-10, I-15, I-17, I-40, I-70, I-80. From the 90's on up till last year, and drafting was a rare occurence with rigs.. Platooning has been investigated by the large carriers the ROI has produced no added benefit. You get better fuel economy capturing as many loaded miles as possible vs empty miles. Instead of doing something as risky as drafting which on the CV side of the equation doesn't produce significant fuel savings. From my road experience both professional, and personal. Those who draft vehicles especially CV's don't take into account tires blowing out, road debris, and other road hazards where your time to react will lead to severe injury or death. .

Backshop

I'm still waiting for the "flying cars" that were supposed to be the norm by 1970.

 I hope that never happens.." People can't even operate their vehicles properly on the ground. "

 

        I have mostly, taken the position that each of us... Who come here to post our 'Takes', 'Ideas', and Experiences based on our job history, and those same life experiences.   All that ads much to the discussions and conversations  on this Forum.  So I am not wanting to point fingers, or verbally poke holes, in anyone else's postings.  

  I am sure, that at some point, in the future; A.I. and autonomous vehicles, of some sort will be seen on the roadways in this country.   As Backshop so deftly pouinted out.... People can't even operate their vehicles properly on the ground. "

  My background was in the OTR trucking, pretty much, nationwide, at times.  While our Interstate highway network is nationwide; there are a hell of a lot of of origins and destinatins that require safe operations, on at times, questionable(?) two lane roads.  Not to belabor the issue, BUT the quality of private vehicle  operatons leaves much to be desired.  A fact that is not improving, but seems to be deteriorating, as well.      Non of which bodes well for autonomous vehicle operations, IMHO.              To  'Ttrraafficc',  you need to re-examine your resources, and spend a few years navigating traffic in large, urban areas; as well as their highways and by-ways.         Then in a few years, come back, tell us what you have observed, and learned.  

[Gramp]

Wisconsin now charges a $75 annual license fee surcharge on hybrids whether they're plug-in or not. The nonplug-in's are just more efficient vehicles; not getting lower tax electricity from the grid. 

[SD60MAC9500]

 

Overmod

 

 

SD60MAC9500

Platooning could happen now, yet it doesn't as there's no cost or speed benefit.

 

 

You must not have spent very much time driving in the West, at least in the late 1970s or early 1990s.  I have experienced many instances of 'convoys' conducting close drafting, with far less than a typical car length between; in fact (with a little judicious 'clearing' and permission illegally arranged over the CB) I have run in them.  They are only borderline legal, and objectively unsafe as hell, but very real fuel conservation results from the reduction of head-end resistance even absent considerations that 'vacuum drafting' as NASCAR practices it has elements of a net zero-sum game.

 

The 70's were before my time. I've traveled a many road trips throughout the West; I-5, I-8, I-10, I-15, I-17, I-40, I-70, I-80. From the 90's on up till last year, and drafting was a rare occurence with rigs.. Platooning has been investigated by the large carriers the ROI has produced no added benefit. You get better fuel economy capturing as many loaded miles as possible vs empty miles. Instead of doing something as risky as drafting which on the CV side of the equation doesn't produce significant fuel savings. From my road experience both professional, and personal. Those who draft vehicles especially CV's don't take into account tires blowing out, road debris, and other road hazards where your time to react will lead to severe injury or death. .

 

 

Backshop

 

I'm still waiting for the "flying cars" that were supposed to be the norm by 1970.

 

 

I hope that never happens.. People can't even operate their vehicles properly on the ground. 

 

 

 

[BaltACD]

ttrraaffiicc

 

BaltACD

How much energy does it take to move a ton of freight on a rubber tired vehicle system on a highway vs. the energy required to move that same ton of freight on a steel wheeled vehicle on steel rail?

What is the cost of the energy? 

So there are multiple layers to this answer. The first is that trucking's energy consumption is shrinking substantially. Electrification will continue this trend. It may not match rail, but it only has to come close enough that the increase in energy consumption is outweighed by the downsides of using rail. This isn't far off.

The next point is that rail isn't as energy efficient as you think given that rail mileage between two points is often significantly longer than highway mileage. It is fine if rail is more energy efficient, but if more work is reqiured go accomplish the same task, then how much more efficient is it actually.

The third part is that energy is not the only determining factor in the cost of transport. Other factors including maintenance, overhead and labour all count towards total cost. Once trucking slashes its labour cost with automation and reduces its energy cost with platooning and electrification, trucking suddenly finds itself with a massive advantage.

Rubber tires just suck down fuel in comparison to steel wheel on steel rail.  Electricity - no matter how it gets on the road is far from free.  To date electricty used in transportation is relatively untaxed - the politicians will develop some means to tax it and thus raise its price exponentially.

Freight transportation is about $$$$$$$$$

[Murphy Siding]

Second verse, same as the first

I'm Henry the 8th I am

 

Henry the 8th I am I am...

[York1]

Overmod

The problem here is that battery electrification doesn't 'improve efficiency' so much as it substitutes 'electricity fairy' cost power for overtaxed fossil fuel.  Expect one of the first government actions to be a British-style road tax on charger MWh comparable to the fossil taxes.

Agreed.

This is already an issue with just the small number of electric cars we have.  They are not paying the road taxes that are included in the price of gasoline.

One of my daughters is able to recharge her Tesla at the hospital in which she works.  For free.  I asked her how long she thinks that will last.

 

charlie hebdo

2. Permit integration of rail, road, and other modes.

That's interesting, but how would it work?  Would the railroads, trucking companies, and shippers have to merge?  I can see the advantages, but I'm sure there would be huge hurdles to jump.

[charlie hebdo]

If the government undertook two major programs,  we might have a really efficient, integrated transportation system. 

1. Nationalize ROWs, with modern routing.  The compensation they would receive would allow the rails to modernize,  coupled with step two:

2. Permit integration of rail, road, and other modes.

[Overmod]

Two points:

ttrraaffiicc

... trucking's energy consumption is shrinking substantially. Electrification will continue this trend. It may not match rail, but it only has to come close enough that the increase in energy consumption is outweighed by the downsides of using rail. This isn't far off.

The problem here is that battery electrification doesn't 'improve efficiency' so much as it substitutes 'electricity fairy' cost power for overtaxed fossil fuel.  Expect one of the first government actions to be a British-style road tax on charger MWh comparable to the fossil taxes.  Then expect the actual cost of power delivered by Megachargers to rise to cover the stranded cost of the added distribution architecture to serve them and likely the wheeling and storage costs for the power.

Second, you sagely note that

Other factors including maintenance, overhead and labour all count towards total cost. Once trucking slashes its labour cost with automation and reduces its energy cost with platooning and electrification, trucking suddenly finds itself with a massive advantage.

But not so sagely, perhaps conveniently, you do not mention maintenance on all that active autonomous architecture, replacement of cells or perhaps enormous strings on a regular basis, cost of retrieving vehicles with a wider range of failure or commanded shutdown ... there are many places for the fancy tech to break or malfunction, often 'unattended' ... and many of the consequences are less, and controls far less complex, for an autonomous rail consist than for the 240-odd autonomous trucks that replace it.  Now it's possible that big class 8 Tesla-built trucks will not suffer extreme maintenance issues, but several people with extremely good experience in actual trucking practice have at least suggested this won't be likely, and as pointed out one forced recovery of a stranded rig somewhere in Idaho eats up the marginal profit from an enormous number of road-miles of 'economical' marginal advantage over intermodal.

[York1]

I'm not sure self-driving trucks are as close to reality as we think.

The technology is there.  Americans' attitudes have a ways to go.  Including me.  Admittedly, I'm old, but I don't know if I or anyone I know wants to be in front of a semi with no driver.

Another question I have concerns hacking.  Even our most secure systems have weaknesses that are open to hackers and enemy countries.  (I have the same concern for driverless trains.)

Right now we can't even stop a spammer from using a fake phone number.  What about valuable cargo in a semi moving through sparsely populated areas?

[ttrraaffiicc]

BaltACD

How much energy does it take to move a ton of freight on a rubber tired vehicle system on a highway vs. the energy required to move that same ton of freight on a steel wheeled vehicle on steel rail?

What is the cost of the energy?

So there are multiple layers to this answer. The first is that trucking's energy consumption is shrinking substantially. Electrification will continue this trend. It may not match rail, but it only has to come close enough that the increase in energy consumption is outweighed by the downsides of using rail. This isn't far off.

The next point is that rail isn't as energy efficient as you think given that rail mileage between two points is often significantly longer than highway mileage. It is fine if rail is more energy efficient, but if more work is reqiured go accomplish the same task, then how much more efficient is it actually.

The third part is that energy is not the only determining factor in the cost of transport. Other factors including maintenance, overhead and labour all count towards total cost. Once trucking slashes its labour cost with automation and reduces its energy cost with platooning and electrification, trucking suddenly finds itself with a massive advantage.

[Overmod]

SD60MAC9500

Platooning could happen now, yet it doesn't as there's no cost or speed benefit.

You must not have spent very much time driving in the West, at least in the late 1970s or early 1990s.  I have experienced many instances of 'convoys' conducting close drafting, with far less than a typical car length between; in fact (with a little judicious 'clearing' and permission illegally arranged over the CB) I have run in them.  They are only borderline legal, and objectively unsafe as hell, but very real fuel conservation results from the reduction of head-end resistance even absent considerations that 'vacuum drafting' as NASCAR practices it has elements of a net zero-sum game.

I was able to record an actual odometer 'mileage' of over 520 in one extended drafting session (westbound into and partially across the Mojave on I-10) in a basically-stock 1988 Lincoln Town Car, as I recall in the roughly-82mph speed range that matches the torque-curve peak of a 302 in the OD of an A4OD.   This of course was far beyond what the car could develop at any more efficient speed with its normal air-resistance characteristics, and involved 'locking in' to a low-pressure vortex behind a particular trailer; interestingly the car would hold position on cruise because the resistance both 'in front' and 'behind'  the still-air sweet spot caused slight speed lock-in outside the response band of the Lincoln cruise control.

Of course I lost the truck when he pulled off at a truck stop, like an idiot seeing my little green computer showing I had 38 or so miles remaining.  Unsurprisingly this number dropped like a rock; I think it went to 14 and then to zero in about three more miles, and I turned around in the median rather than find out what reserve I actually had...

[zugmann]

ttrraaffiicc

I am going to keep this record playing. The completion of this platooning trial is huge news and it will have massive negative implications on railroads.

As long as the paychecks keep coming, I guess. 

[BaltACD]

How much energy does it take to move a ton of freight on a rubber tired vehicle system on a highway vs. the energy required to move that same ton of freight on a steel wheeled vehicle on steel rail?

What is the cost of the energy?

[Backshop]

A few points...

1. It doesn't matter how good autonomous/platooning trucks are if they aren't legal.

2. The first thing I learned when I was trained as a driver was that nowhere near the vast majority of my time would be on interstates or other limited access highways.

3. Most of the largest carriers from 20-30 years ago are either gone or a much smaller size.

4. I'm still waiting for the "flying cars" that were supposed to be the norm by 1970.