BaltACD Juniata Man Turned out the car KCS had was shopped not long before and missing AEI tags were replaced with new ones. The new tags had been programmed with the wrong car number so, when it passed the scanner, KCS' system recorded the wrong car in their yard. Technology can be great but, sometimes you gotta do things the old fashioned way and use your eyes and cognitive abilities. The last several years I was working CSX had AEI scanners at all the critical locations about the railroad. The AEI scanners would read the AEI tags on either side of the car - needless to say one would expect the right side scan to agree with the left side scan - it was rare, but on rare occasion you could see a car scanning as two different car numbers - one on the right side and a different one on the left side. Car Department employees make mistakes to.
Juniata Man Turned out the car KCS had was shopped not long before and missing AEI tags were replaced with new ones. The new tags had been programmed with the wrong car number so, when it passed the scanner, KCS' system recorded the wrong car in their yard. Technology can be great but, sometimes you gotta do things the old fashioned way and use your eyes and cognitive abilities.
Technology can be great but, sometimes you gotta do things the old fashioned way and use your eyes and cognitive abilities.
The last several years I was working CSX had AEI scanners at all the critical locations about the railroad. The AEI scanners would read the AEI tags on either side of the car - needless to say one would expect the right side scan to agree with the left side scan - it was rare, but on rare occasion you could see a car scanning as two different car numbers - one on the right side and a different one on the left side. Car Department employees make mistakes to.
My favorite is when a two cars have the same AEI tag... If they are both moving at the same time, you get a really wild looking trip when you look a the data.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Shadow the Cats ownerPretty soon those that can read and write it will be able to write in code and the younger generations will not be able to read it.
But there'll be an app for that.
Cursive, Ogham, cuneiform... nothing all that revolutionary in functional obsolescence turning into eventual 'illiteracy'...
rf&p pot yard 73When in doubt, a safe course of action will be taken. 36 years as a conductor and brakeman, I have used this rule more then once. Management had no way to argue about safety.
Have you worked under PSR?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
rf&p pot yard 73 When in doubt, a safe course of action will be taken. 36 years as a conductor and brakeman, I have used this rule more then once. Management had no way to argue about safety.
When in doubt, a safe course of action will be taken. 36 years as a conductor and brakeman, I have used this rule more then once. Management had no way to argue about safety.
Ah, but they can. "Malicious Compliance" they call it. I know the term has been tossed around a few times, but no discipline given.
One railroad disciplined an engineer for going too slow while operating at restricted speed. An arbitrator upheld the discipline.
Jeff
Juniata ManTurned out the car KCS had was shopped not long before and missing AEI tags were replaced with new ones. The new tags had been programmed with the wrong car number so, when it passed the scanner, KCS' system recorded the wrong car in their yard. Technology can be great but, sometimes you gotta do things the old fashioned way and use your eyes and cognitive abilities.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Shadow the Cats owner That's why I have to laugh. The DOT requires all OTR drivers to carry a paper logbook still. Why just in case the Electronic one aka the Computer decides to fail so they can record their HOS on paper. We just last week had one fail so the driver an old school driver like my husband would have been pulled out the paper one. Not 2 days later he gets pulled into a scalehouse for a Level 1 inspection gets placed OOS for failing to have his HOS up to his last change of duty in the computer when it was saying OOS due to failure internally. The DOT officer a younger one could not read a paper logbook. The supervisor on duty threw out the OOS order on the spot and sent our driver on his way but still the next generation is so screwed if they loose their computers. Why they are barely teaching cursive in schools anymore. Pretty soon those that can read and write it will be able to write in code and the younger generations will not be able to read it.
That's why I have to laugh. The DOT requires all OTR drivers to carry a paper logbook still. Why just in case the Electronic one aka the Computer decides to fail so they can record their HOS on paper. We just last week had one fail so the driver an old school driver like my husband would have been pulled out the paper one. Not 2 days later he gets pulled into a scalehouse for a Level 1 inspection gets placed OOS for failing to have his HOS up to his last change of duty in the computer when it was saying OOS due to failure internally. The DOT officer a younger one could not read a paper logbook. The supervisor on duty threw out the OOS order on the spot and sent our driver on his way but still the next generation is so screwed if they loose their computers. Why they are barely teaching cursive in schools anymore. Pretty soon those that can read and write it will be able to write in code and the younger generations will not be able to read it.
https://www.arcamax.com/thefunnies/zits/s-2395521
Back somewhere around 2001 or 2002 when I was still working at one of our production sites in Mississippi; I received a phone call from a yard clerk in Laredo advising they had one of our cars destined into Mexico without proper customs documents. The car number sounded vaguely familiar so I reviewed my switch list from that morning and it indicated the car was actually in our plant awaiting loading. I jumped on a bike and pedaled down back and visually confirmed the car was in the plant. Rode back up to the office and called the yard clerk in Laredo to tell him he had the wrong car number. No, he insisted, they had the car and were going to start billing demurrage if we didn't get the customs handled. I asked him if he or anyone else had physically walked the track and confirmed the car number and he said it wasn't necessary since the car had been scanned coming into the yard. This went back and forth for awhile until I eventually threw up my hands and called my KCS account manager and asked him to get involved. This eventually led to someone getting off their butt and walking the track where a visual inspection confirmed they didn't have that car.
Turned out the car KCS had was shopped not long before and missing AEI tags were replaced with new ones. The new tags had been programmed with the wrong car number so, when it passed the scanner, KCS' system recorded the wrong car in their yard.
SunnylandThings have really changed, Mom was a keypuncher at Frisco and knew the code for every RR car they were using It was a primitive form of computer with punch marks, they had a huge room with sorting equipment and it was very cold in there, because of the machines. She had to go to IBM school to learn the system. When Dad worked in the yards as a clerk checking to see if freight cars seals had been tampered with, he had a manifest of what was being shipped in each car. Paid close attention to any hauling liquor or cigs, they were the valuable cargo. If a seal was broken, he told one of the yard "bulls" and they opened the car door and took inventory to see what was missing and file a report. When he worked in the office, they had a primitive computer system too, he knew how to key punch but it was mostly written orders to the guys switching the cars and making up trains. Computers are wonderful for data and info, but not when they crash or get hacked. I had to transition from typewriters to computers in my secretary jobs
When I hired out in 1965 the B&O was using Teletype lines to send train consists between terminals. Consists would be sent to receiving yards in advance of the train - each consist created a printed record AND punched paper tape. Upon arrival and checking the train inbound and getting the waybills the Yard Clerk would take the waybill 'pack' and the punched paper tape, tearing the tape so that it the data on the tape corresponded to the waybill - the torn tape was then placed in the fold of the wabill.
The waybills would get switched into pigeon holes corresponding to the tracks the yard had and where the cars were switched to. After switching both cars and waybills into outbound trains and/or pick ups - as a part of creating the consist to be sent to the next terminal, the yard clerk would take the waybill pack for the particular track and in train standing order (as identified by a Yard Clerk's walking check) of the track and read the torn tape for each car into a 'reperferator' to create a single 'long' tape of the train that would be transmitted to the next terminal upon departure of the train/track. I don't know if the data was sent to 'headquarters' at that time - in 1967 I do know that the B&O had implemented a rudimentary RCA 3301 communications computer which facilitated the sending of consists to multiple locations with a single transmission addressed to multiple locations.
In 1972 when I was transferred to Baltimore, the consists were being received on IBM punched cards. Originating traffic had their car data input keypunched into IBM cards by the Yard Clerks on IBM 029 card punches - shortly thereafter the B&O transitioned from teh RCA/IBM kluge of a system to a all Burroughs system that Burroughs equipment for both printing and card cutting as well as being billing machines and placing the car data into the revenue accounting stream.
In 1978 Chessie System implemented its Terminal Services Center concept. The concept place Yard Clerks, Agency Clerks and Revenue Accounting personnel in a common location with each specialty utilzing a common data repository that was maintained on a local 'Mini-computer' (Computer was the size of a commercial refrigerator, had 32K bytes of Core Memory and a 10MB disk drive that was the size of a 2-drawer filing cabinet). The Mini-computer was programmed by the OEM using punched paper tape.
I'd be careful - you're not exactly going to get an "A" for the spelling and grammar in your posts. Pot, kettle and all that.
Things have really changed, Mom was a keypuncher at Frisco and knew the code for every RR car they were using It was a primitive form of computer with punch marks, they had a huge room with sorting equipment and it was very cold in there, because of the machines. She had to go to IBM school to learn the system. When Dad worked in the yards as a clerk checking to see if freight cars seals had been tampered with, he had a manifest of what was being shipped in each car. Paid close attention to any hauling liquor or cigs, they were the valuable cargo. If a seal was broken, he told one of the yard "bulls" and they opened the car door and took inventory to see what was missing and file a report. When he worked in the office, they had a primitive computer system too, he knew how to key punch but it was mostly written orders to the guys switching the cars and making up trains. Computers are wonderful for data and info, but not when they crash or get hacked. I had to transition from typewriters to computers in my secretary jobs
BaltACD sclm046 This made me think of my days working at the Southern Pacific Yard in San Antonio in the 70s & 80s. Waybills were very much in use at the time and usually in a neatly-folded stack held together with several regular rubber bands for the conductor. I remember a certain conductor that worked into San Antonio from Hearne. While the Blue Streak Merchandise (BSM, train #45, the hottest train on the SP at the time) was still running across our territory, and if that conductor caught it, he would always remove the heavy-duty rubber band that apparently was applied to the the folded waybills while the train was on the Cotton Belt. He coveted those heavy-duty rubber bands and would remove them apparently for his own use. He would be upset if the heavy-duty rubber band had been removed prior to that train's arrival at Hearne. This post reminded me of that comical situation from many years ago. Apparently the SP only supplied ordinary rubber bands while the SSW must have spent the extra amount to buy heavy-duty ones. Also reminds me of some sadistic conductors who would use torpedos and their lead straps to wrap up the waybills and fling them at the Yard Clerk checking the train's arrival as it passed the yard office - they would laugh their ass off if the saw the Yard Clerk limping or nursing a sore spot where the waybill 'package' had impacted them. Fortunately I never heard of a torpedo going off in such a use, if it did it would have resulted in a serious injury to the Yard Clerk.
sclm046 This made me think of my days working at the Southern Pacific Yard in San Antonio in the 70s & 80s. Waybills were very much in use at the time and usually in a neatly-folded stack held together with several regular rubber bands for the conductor. I remember a certain conductor that worked into San Antonio from Hearne. While the Blue Streak Merchandise (BSM, train #45, the hottest train on the SP at the time) was still running across our territory, and if that conductor caught it, he would always remove the heavy-duty rubber band that apparently was applied to the the folded waybills while the train was on the Cotton Belt. He coveted those heavy-duty rubber bands and would remove them apparently for his own use. He would be upset if the heavy-duty rubber band had been removed prior to that train's arrival at Hearne. This post reminded me of that comical situation from many years ago. Apparently the SP only supplied ordinary rubber bands while the SSW must have spent the extra amount to buy heavy-duty ones.
Also reminds me of some sadistic conductors who would use torpedos and their lead straps to wrap up the waybills and fling them at the Yard Clerk checking the train's arrival as it passed the yard office - they would laugh their ass off if the saw the Yard Clerk limping or nursing a sore spot where the waybill 'package' had impacted them. Fortunately I never heard of a torpedo going off in such a use, if it did it would have resulted in a serious injury to the Yard Clerk.
There are loads of stories about 'pranks' involving common railroad materials back then.
My favourite involves another crew getting back at just such a Conductor. They found his caboose on the cab track while he was sleeping inside, locked the door on one end, lit a number of fusees and threw them in from the other end, and then held that door shut while he struggled to get out.
Fusee smoke is incredibly choking, even outside.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
sclm046This made me think of my days working at the Southern Pacific Yard in San Antonio in the 70s & 80s. Waybills were very much in use at the time and usually in a neatly-folded stack held together with several regular rubber bands for the conductor. I remember a certain conductor that worked into San Antonio from Hearne. While the Blue Streak Merchandise (BSM, train #45, the hottest train on the SP at the time) was still running across our territory, and if that conductor caught it, he would always remove the heavy-duty rubber band that apparently was applied to the the folded waybills while the train was on the Cotton Belt. He coveted those heavy-duty rubber bands and would remove them apparently for his own use. He would be upset if the heavy-duty rubber band had been removed prior to that train's arrival at Hearne. This post reminded me of that comical situation from many years ago. Apparently the SP only supplied ordinary rubber bands while the SSW must have spent the extra amount to buy heavy-duty ones.
This made me think of my days working at the Southern Pacific Yard in San Antonio in the 70s & 80s. Waybills were very much in use at the time and usually in a neatly-folded stack held together with several regular rubber bands for the conductor. I remember a certain conductor that worked into San Antonio from Hearne. While the Blue Streak Merchandise (BSM, train #45, the hottest train on the SP at the time) was still running across our territory, and if that conductor caught it, he would always remove the heavy-duty rubber band that apparently was applied to the the folded waybills while the train was on the Cotton Belt. He coveted those heavy-duty rubber bands and would remove them apparently for his own use. He would be upset if the heavy-duty rubber band had been removed prior to that train's arrival at Hearne. This post reminded me of that comical situation from many years ago. Apparently the SP only supplied ordinary rubber bands while the SSW must have spent the extra amount to buy heavy-duty ones.
In many countries use a paper waybills.
jeffhergertI must have missed it, but I thought there was something about electronic devices being a distraction. Because they sure seem to be loading us down with devices that can be a distraction. Jeff
Private electronic devices are considered a distraction.
Company electronic devices are considered critical to efficient operations.
See the difference[/sarcasm]
SD70Dude Our (CN's) locomotives have buttons on both screens, though being up north I don't get to see them operate, let alone use them. They are still turned on, and must be left on at all times or an alarm will be generated, even though there is no PTC requirement up here. I view the screens as an annoyance, as the won't dim properly and become eyesores at night. They also replaced the Conductor's speedometer and distance counter on some units, so if the screen is off or has gone to sleep (my preferred status for them) you don't have a speed indicator. As for paper waybills, CN is currently transistioning to electronic train journals, which are downloaded to the phablet (Nautiz X6) that each employee has already had to carry for about a year now. The rulebook and other operating documentation is on the phablet as well. So far we still get paper switch lists, but we'll see how long they last. So far the phablets seem fairly tough and are doing ok as long as they are kept in one's grip and do not leave the locomotive cab, but I would not expect them to have a long lifespan out on the lead in the rain, while also getting covered in the usual 'eau de railroad' grime (it's a pungent mix of brake dust, creosote, diesel exhaust, and whatever is in the locomotive chemical toilets).
Our (CN's) locomotives have buttons on both screens, though being up north I don't get to see them operate, let alone use them. They are still turned on, and must be left on at all times or an alarm will be generated, even though there is no PTC requirement up here.
I view the screens as an annoyance, as the won't dim properly and become eyesores at night. They also replaced the Conductor's speedometer and distance counter on some units, so if the screen is off or has gone to sleep (my preferred status for them) you don't have a speed indicator.
As for paper waybills, CN is currently transistioning to electronic train journals, which are downloaded to the phablet (Nautiz X6) that each employee has already had to carry for about a year now. The rulebook and other operating documentation is on the phablet as well.
So far we still get paper switch lists, but we'll see how long they last. So far the phablets seem fairly tough and are doing ok as long as they are kept in one's grip and do not leave the locomotive cab, but I would not expect them to have a long lifespan out on the lead in the rain, while also getting covered in the usual 'eau de railroad' grime (it's a pungent mix of brake dust, creosote, diesel exhaust, and whatever is in the locomotive chemical toilets).
The conductor's PTC screen has buttons, but they don't work.
Our conductors are starting to get some kind of electronic device that can also report switching done, update train lists and take and release warrants. They can also be used as a back up radio. Supposedly they can reach a radio tower, even if they can't reach the engine. Not all conductors have them yet, it's kind of a trial phase.
I must have missed it, but I thought there was something about electronic devices being a distraction. Because they sure seem to be loading us down with devices that can be a distraction.
They probably haven't modified the screens to operate separate for two reasons.
One. It will cost them money to do so.
Two. They didn't want two screens in the cab in the first place. They figure that they will be able to eliminate conductors on trains sooner rather than later, so why bother spending money on the displays.
zugmann adkrr64 That does seem rather silly. Has anyone ever indicated why this is setup in this way - why a conductor cannot see mandatory directives on their own?
adkrr64 That does seem rather silly. Has anyone ever indicated why this is setup in this way - why a conductor cannot see mandatory directives on their own?
jeffhergertLeaving the operation screen means not being able to see or acknowledge an unforseen status in PTC. We've discussed this amongst ourselves at union meetings and are waiting to hear from higher up if we should start stopping before taking a mandatory directive in this manner. Jeff
Well, we are able to run LHF with the PTC screen on the short hood side, and now we have the screen telling us everytime we move the throttle too fast or are using too much tractive effort (with a crappy 4 axle pulling a string of loads up a hill ), so I'm sure "they can do that" easily.
adkrr64That does seem rather silly. Has anyone ever indicated why this is setup in this way - why a conductor cannot see mandatory directives on their own?
We don't like them touching the AC controls, either.
jeffhergertWhile both the engineer and conductor have their own screen, only the engineer's screen has the working buttons. The conductor can't access a mandatory directive without the engineer changing to the proper screen.
That does seem rather silly. Has anyone ever indicated why this is setup in this way - why a conductor cannot see mandatory directives on their own?
MidlandMike jeffhergert Verbal authorities, such as, for entering controlled track (CTC, etc) or passing a signal displaying stop can also be sent via PTC. Does "sent via PTC" indicate it was received on a laptop, smart phone, dedicated PTC screen, or something else?
jeffhergert Verbal authorities, such as, for entering controlled track (CTC, etc) or passing a signal displaying stop can also be sent via PTC.
Does "sent via PTC" indicate it was received on a laptop, smart phone, dedicated PTC screen, or something else?
On the PTC screen. You have to leave the operating screen (the one with the track segment map, signal locations, etc) to access the various message/authority and or track bulletin screens.
While both the engineer and conductor have their own screen, only the engineer's screen has the working buttons. The conductor can't access a mandatory directive without the engineer changing to the proper screen. The conductor is to copy on paper the directive sent via PTC. There is no requirement to being stopped while doing so. Leaving the operation screen means not being able to see or acknowledge an unforseen status in PTC. We've discussed this amongst ourselves at union meetings and are waiting to hear from higher up if we should start stopping before taking a mandatory directive in this manner.
No faxes yet, but mandatory directives (track bulletins dealing with temporary slows or grade crossing signal failures and track warrants) can be sent via PTC. Verbal authorities, such as, for entering controlled track (CTC, etc) or passing a signal displaying stop can also be sent via PTC. Some of them need to be read back to the dispatcher, some can just be acknowledged that the crew received them.
BaltACD Railroad 'Train Documents' in addition to a listing of car standing in train order also contain the Emergency Data sheets for each of the kinds of HAZMAT in the train a well as the car numbers of each of the different forms of HAZMAT that are in the train. The Conductor is required to keep his 'Train Documents' up to date with any pickups and/or set offs the train has made and make suitable information available to Emergency Responders when necessary.
Railroad 'Train Documents' in addition to a listing of car standing in train order also contain the Emergency Data sheets for each of the kinds of HAZMAT in the train a well as the car numbers of each of the different forms of HAZMAT that are in the train. The Conductor is required to keep his 'Train Documents' up to date with any pickups and/or set offs the train has made and make suitable information available to Emergency Responders when necessary.
We stopped getting all the emergency response info with our train lists. All conductors are supposed to have the current orange book Tree mentioned. We are to refer to it for the emergency information.
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