[quote user="jeffhergert"]
daveklepper And the above, as far as I know, is not BNSF policy. Buffet seems interested in the long-term, not the immediate profit. So, as far as I know, BNSF still respects the brains of experienced engineers and doesn't require them to use automation when it messes up train handling. And runs long trains at high speed when the physical plant is appropriate for such operations. Anybody want to argue with this?
And the above, as far as I know, is not BNSF policy. Buffet seems interested in the long-term, not the immediate profit. So, as far as I know, BNSF still respects the brains of experienced engineers and doesn't require them to use automation when it messes up train handling. And runs long trains at high speed when the physical plant is appropriate for such operations.
Anybody want to argue with this?
I will. BNSF thinks as much of their employees as any other class one railroad. They have the EMS and I believe are required to use it as much as possible. Just like everyone else. Most of our EMS is now integrated into PTC. Since BNSF was ahead on PTC I would guess they have that, too.
There's nothing wrong with running your railroad as effeciently as possible. Parts of PSR may do that and I'm sure it's those parts BNSF is looking at. PSR as practiced on other roads seems to be more about cost cutting. Once you've freed up assests (human, mechanical or infrastructure) you can either liquidate those assests and pass the money to investors or you can look for some new business. Wall Street, which drives everyone else, wants to see that money go to them.
Jeff
Let us not forget that pension nfunds comprise a significant participation in what we call Wall Street
[quote user="diningcar"]
jeffhergert PSR as practiced on other roads seems to be more about cost cutting. Once you've freed up assests (human, mechanical or infrastructure) you can either liquidate those assests and pass the money to investors or you can look for some new business. Wall Street, which drives everyone else, wants to see that money go to them. Jeff "Wall Street, which drives everyone else, wants to see that money go to them."
PSR as practiced on other roads seems to be more about cost cutting. Once you've freed up assests (human, mechanical or infrastructure) you can either liquidate those assests and pass the money to investors or you can look for some new business. Wall Street, which drives everyone else, wants to see that money go to them.
How does Wall Street drive railroad management to reward only Wall Street? What is the motive for railroad management diminish their own plant just to reward Wall Street?
EuclidHow does Wall Street drive railroad management to reward only Wall Street? What is the motive for railroad management diminish their own plant just to reward Wall Street?
PSR is the motive. Get as much money out of the corpse as fast as you can.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
They find someone willing to do their bidding and install them in top management (see: EHH).
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tree68 Euclid How does Wall Street drive railroad management to reward only Wall Street? What is the motive for railroad management diminish their own plant just to reward Wall Street? They find someone willing to do their bidding and install them in top management (see: EHH).
Euclid How does Wall Street drive railroad management to reward only Wall Street? What is the motive for railroad management diminish their own plant just to reward Wall Street?
Well that is one case, but are you saying that all railroad management supports this motive to loot the company for the benefit of Wall Street? What is in it for management? Why do they go along with a plot by Wall Street to loot the railroad only for the benefit of Wall Street?
EuclidWell that is one case, but are you saying that all railroad management supports this motive to loot the company for the benefit of Wall Street? What is in it for management? Why do they go along with a plot by Wall Street to loot the railroad only for the benefit of Wall Street?
They do it or they are fired. Simple as that.
zugmann Euclid Well that is one case, but are you saying that all railroad management supports this motive to loot the company for the benefit of Wall Street? What is in it for management? Why do they go along with a plot by Wall Street to loot the railroad only for the benefit of Wall Street? They do it or they are fired. Simple as that.
Euclid Well that is one case, but are you saying that all railroad management supports this motive to loot the company for the benefit of Wall Street? What is in it for management? Why do they go along with a plot by Wall Street to loot the railroad only for the benefit of Wall Street?
Who fires them?
Stop being obtuse.
zugmann Stop being obtuse.
It is hardly a complicated question. Your response sounds like you don't have an answer.
EuclidIt is hardly a complicated question. Your response sounds like you don't have an answer.
It's just like any job - the people who hire you can fire you. If the investors don't think you're sending enough money their way, then they'll replace you with someone who will.
EHH was doing the bidding of the vulture investors who backed him.
diningcar Let us not forget that pension nfunds comprise a significant participation in what we call Wall Street
This is a greatly underappreciated fact about "Wall Street".
And don't forget "bonuses". Big bonuses. Like where much, if not most, of their compensation can be in bonuses for those at the very top.
Our management employees, including those at the top, are required to take a temporary 25% pay cut. (Supervisory field management, including train dispatchers, are required to take one week off every month. And they aren't allowed to use any vacation pay for the time off. It amounts to a 25% pay cut for them.) Someone figured that since the pay cut does not include bonuses, those at the top were only taking 2 to 4% cuts in actual compensation.
And bonuses derive from certain financial considerations, which more and more are becoming short term goals, not what shape the company will be in sometime in the distant future. Distant being a relative term. What I consider 'distant' and what a short term activist investor(s) might think are probably not the same.
Diningcar: BNSF has noy had nearly the management turnover that other Class Is have had. So:
More institutional knowledge has remained with BNSF.
It is likely that there is more trust on the part of management that operating people are better qualified to know when to use automation and when to avoid it.
daveklepper Diningcar: BNSF has noy had nearly the management turnover that other Class Is have had. So: More institutional knowledge has remained with BNSF. It is likely that there is more trust on the part of management that operating people are better qualified to know when to use automation and when to avoid it.
Dave, I think I'm the one disputing that BNSF 'trusts' their engineers more.
[quote user="Euclid"]
diningcar jeffhergert PSR as practiced on other roads seems to be more about cost cutting. Once you've freed up assests (human, mechanical or infrastructure) you can either liquidate those assests and pass the money to investors or you can look for some new business. Wall Street, which drives everyone else, wants to see that money go to them. Jeff "Wall Street, which drives everyone else, wants to see that money go to them." How does Wall Street drive railroad management to reward only Wall Street? What is the motive for railroad management diminish their own plant just to reward Wall Street?
1. PSR (or more accurately, the low operating ratios that result from PSR) drives up the price of the company's stock; stock options are a major part of executive compensation packages these days; ergo...
2. Executives of publicly traded companies who refuse to adopt PSR are likely to be the targets of hostile takeovers. These executives will then lose their jobs.
Those are two major reasons, but I'm sure there are other factors
Psychot 1. PSR (or more accurately, the low operating ratios that result from PSR) drives up the price of the company's stock; stock options are a major part of executive compensation packages these days; ergo... 2. Executives of publicly traded companies who refuse to adopt PSR are likely to be the targets of hostile takeovers. These executives will then lose their jobs. Those are two major reasons, but I'm sure there are other factors
BNSF is not publiclly traded and is not subject to a hostile takeover.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Some pension funds are managed, but others like a 401k may be self managed. Much of my pension fund is in stock, but I do not agitate for cost cutting to the bone.
An answer to please you? No, I don't. Nobody here does. Nobody ever will.
zugmann Euclid It is hardly a complicated question. Your response sounds like you don't have an answer. An answer to please you? No, I don't. Nobody here does. Nobody ever will.
Euclid It is hardly a complicated question. Your response sounds like you don't have an answer.
No, I did not ask the question because I was seeking an answer that would please me.
Euclid zugmann Euclid Well that is one case, but are you saying that all railroad management supports this motive to loot the company for the benefit of Wall Street? What is in it for management? Why do they go along with a plot by Wall Street to loot the railroad only for the benefit of Wall Street? They do it or they are fired. Simple as that. Who fires them?
I would say it would be the Board of Directors. Members of which after an investor group enters the picture are usually picked by the group.
I've heard (this is admittedly anecdotal) that our CEO wasn't keen on going the EHH PSR route. He was told if he didn't do it, they would find someone that would.
BaltACD Psychot 1. PSR (or more accurately, the low operating ratios that result from PSR) drives up the price of the company's stock; stock options are a major part of executive compensation packages these days; ergo... 2. Executives of publicly traded companies who refuse to adopt PSR are likely to be the targets of hostile takeovers. These executives will then lose their jobs. Those are two major reasons, but I'm sure there are other factors BNSF is not publiclly traded and is not subject to a hostile takeover.
Exactly. My answer pertained to publicly-traded Class 1's, not BNSF.
Replying to the video in the original post. If BNSF was running that train in a PSR style way it would likely have 3 or maybe 4 engines on it, not 8. PSR is all about the bare minimum of everything. That train most certainly does not need 8 locomotives.
I've ran 15000 foot trains of empty containers with two locomotives and the HPT was still 1.0.
We're running bulk trains at .4 hpt with AC power on subdivisions without significant grades.
10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ...
traisessive1 Replying to the video in the original post. If BNSF was running that train in a PSR style way it would likely have 3 or maybe 4 engines on it, not 8. PSR is all about the bare minimum of everything. That train most certainly does not need 8 locomotives. I've ran 15000 foot trains of empty containers with two locomotives and the HPT was still 1.0. We're running bulk trains at .4 hpt with AC power on subdivisions without significant grades.
BNSF wants to maintain a higher average speed on the Southern Transcon. This would be their personal spin on a form of PSR. Mind you BNSF likes a higher HPT on the Southern Transcon.
You better be able to buy out Berkshire Hathaway to take over the BNSF. Their market cap on just their Class A shares is over 430 Billion so better have backing from say Amazon or maybe Google if your going to try and take them out.
traisessive1 I've ran 15000 foot trains of empty containers with two locomotives and the HPT was still 1.0.
Probably restricted to notch 5 as well, or the second unit was isolated.
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SD70Dude traisessive1 I've ran 15000 foot trains of empty containers with two locomotives and the HPT was still 1.0. Probably restricted to notch 5 as well, or the second unit was isolated.
I agree. We often have trains that look over powered, but looks can be deceiving. Often we're only allowed to have one or two on line.
That second train in the video is more reflective of PSR. Combine an intermodal with an ethanol/oil train.
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