One of the former crew cars for the still born Marlboro Train is listed on Ozark Mountain Rail is now for sale.
I had heard about that train several years ago and that Marlboro poured a ton of money into it only to have the cars cut up on the spot and have the employees involved sign non-discloser agreements. The two locomotives were sold as they were off the shelf passenger locos. The smoking lawsuits were settled by various states and the stupidity of the whole train led Marlboro the quietly scrap the project.
Can anyone tell me how many cars were built or proposed? Did that project cause the rail car builder to close their facility?
Ed Burns
According to the AP back in 1997 all 19 cars were sold back to the manufacturer for scrap. I have no info about the locomotives.
I remember seeing posters for the "Marlboro Unlimited" ca 1994, looked like an interesting idea. Didn't have much interest in riding it as I suspect that a lot of smoking would be going on.
The locomotives (F59PHI's) eventually became Metrolink 882-883.
One wag over on Trainorders quipped that Phillip Morris must have "lost their ash" on the Marlboro Train fisasco.
The "Marlboro Train" was definately a bad idea. Tobacco's bad for you, don't you know?
Now, in this day and age if someone put together a "Weed Train," THAT would probably be totally acceptable!
Maybe even with Cheech Marin and Tommy Chong as celebrity guests?
There's a lot of stuff here and there about Project Thunder and the various things it came to involve. One example is this:
https://www.industrydocuments.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=xyfk0114
I don't think 'tobacco settlements' or other financial issues were a concern, but building some of the cars to be a smidge too wide when running does. A common comment I saw was that the Philip Morris people had a sort of Supertrainish idea for what the 'experience' would be, but didn't actually know what could practically be built and run in the area prospectively defined as 'Marlboro Country'.
Cars with operating Jacuzzis on the upper level ballasted with 15,000 gallons down low does not strike me as likely to run very well. Late in the project as I recall it was projected that an additional locomotive was going to be required (and I think it would have been wise).
Where out west did they plan to run the train?
original plan was Cheyenne to Phoenix southbound, Tucson to Cheyenne northbound (no route specifics including workability of the consist on the direct Phoenix-Tucson track).
By the end of 1995 that had morphed into Denver-Laramie, then along the Grand Tetons and Yellowstone to Billings. A source mentioned that in one stretch the train would cross the Continental Divide four times, which may be an indication of the routing.
The initial discussion involved "$200MM" in insurance which for 1994 seems reasonably adequate. I do not know if they were 'counting on' using Amtrak's privilege to run where they wanted; given the government's deprecation of smoking at the time I would think the political consequences ... even if the PM payments contributed to Amtrak's bottom line in those years, which it likely would ...
Amusingly, right from the beginning PM understood that anywhere the Marlboro logo appeared, there would have to be a panel with the 'Surgeon-General's warning' on it. And as I recall there were concerns about letting kids around it ... remember the Joe Camel brouhaha? I suspect some of the route detail planning involved these sorts of issues...
You mean they built their own train cars?
For that money they could have restored/rebuilt/built new some excursion steam locomotives, and smoking/steam locomotives, what brilliant marketing tie-in
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Paul MilenkovicYou mean they built their own train cars?
For that money they could have restored/rebuilt/built new some excursion steam locomotives, and smoking/steam locomotives, what brilliant marketing tie-in...
I recall when we got the locomotive order, our sales guy saying there was no negotiation involve re the price, EMD gave them a price and they said we'll take two. It was a highly profitable order, then they were charged for storage as the units sat waiting for the train cars to be built.
Dave
Proof that the sales & marketing guys were in charge of the operation!
As I read in January 1996 Trains, Rader Railcar was building the cars to spec. I'm sure it was a "you want to do...what? Okay..."
Steve WaldenEditor, Colorado Railroads
One very insightful web site seems to be ThemeTrains.com. They have a very detailed roster and all the information it seems. Start here.
Hmmm... I wonder why ThemeTrains doesn't list these Kalmbach forums on their 'forums' page along with the likes of Trainodors and the O Gauge discussions...
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