3D Printing And Its Potential Impact On The Railroad Industry

[SD60MAC9500]

 

York1

I know this is an old topic, but I came across this article today.

I was expecially taken with the new polymers being "self-healing".

 

https://engineering.tamu.edu/news/2020/08/versatile-new-material-family-could-build-realistic-prosthetics-futuristic-army-platforms.html

 

 

 

Impressive! Even if only in the prototype phase. Would like to see how well this would hold up in ballistics? Maybe this material can deflect a rounds energy upon impact to reduce damage.

 

[York1]

I know this is an old topic, but I came across this article today.

I was especially taken with the new polymers being "self-healing".

 

https://engineering.tamu.edu/news/2020/08/versatile-new-material-family-could-build-realistic-prosthetics-futuristic-army-platforms.html

 

[Overmod]

Deggesty

If this really took place, such a person has been isolated from real life.

We need to get Wayne in on this discussion, but i've had a number of those fancy collating printers from the 80s which were not designed for easy access to the paper magazines.  And I suspect part of 'the rest of the story' is that exact 10 sheets, something hard to scrabble up out of a drawer but easy to command -- a bit like those POS systems that make change into your hand instead of requiring you to fish for notes and coins and (horrors!) actually have to count them...

Now I'll admit that 'putting a blank page in' is overkill -- we'd just hit the quantity and make an 'image' of the white underside of the cover that contained the sheet feeder.  (Mind you, this was one of my Hilsmanesque strategies for paper use as well as document leak control; you could easily produce 'blank paper' with a consistent little speckly dot pattern on it from that cover, which the person 'requesting the blank paper' (or 'five-finger requisitioning' it) could use in their printer unaware that it could subsequently be identified...  whether or not they had loaded it toner-side-up... 

[Overmod]

BaltACD

A continuous MIG welding process could be considered as a 3D steel printer. Managing the accumulating heat may be a problem.

It need not be -- you can use various combinations of cold gas and volatile liquid "print" sprayed after the weldment to manage both the effective HAZ and regions further from it that may cause progressive thermal deformation otherwise...

There is a corollary for most of the hybrid laser keyhole welding strategies, too, including methods to keep an optically-correct dynamic gas 'lens' between the laser objectives and the contact points...

[SD60MAC9500]

 

Semper Vaporo

Git big enuf 3-D printer and you can not only print the trucks, but the whole car, including the contents!  Ford Motor Company could be just one great big printer, pumping out cars already loaded on the auto-carrier car.  Only need a couple of employees to keep the printer's bins full of raw material.

 

 

Few years ago a client I was working with had just produced 3D printers for Ford to be used for prototyping at it's Allen Park Test Laboratories.. Ford has been investigating this for some years now.. While still many decades away from printing full vehicles.. 3D Parts will debut in Fords AM(additive manufacturing) process soon.

 

 

 

[Deggesty]

Erik_Mag

An unusual aspect of 3D printing stainless steel is that the 3D printed object can have a much better metallurgy than the same object machine from bulk material. Reason being is that the melted powder grain quenches much faster than bulk material favoring the formation of the martensite phase.

One reason why I don't think 3D priniting will dominate metal fabrication is that it takes an enormous amount of energy. There are some applications for heat transfer, e.g. high performance radiatiors or rocket nozzles, where 3D printing can make parts that can't be made any way. This reminds me a very short story of a design engineer that knew his work was done when he got to the point that his design couldn't even be cast...

 

Whoops, Erik! I know that you meant to write "...made in any other way...." (my italics).

[Erik_Mag]

An unusual aspect of 3D printing stainless steel is that the 3D printed object can have a much better metallurgy than the same object machine from bulk material. Reason being is that the melted powder grain quenches much faster than bulk material favoring the formation of the martensite phase.

One reason why I don't think 3D priniting will dominate metal fabrication is that it takes an enormous amount of energy. There are some applications for heat transfer, e.g. high performance radiatiors or rocket nozzles, where 3D printing can make parts that can't be made any other way. This reminds me a very short story of a design engineer that knew his work was done when he got to the point that his design couldn't even be cast...

[N.B. Thanks Johnny for the "oops".]

[York1]

3-D metal printing is becoming more common.

From what I understand, some of the printers use a powdered metal base and lasers to provide the forming.  The stainless steel printer for your home office can be had for only $120,000!

One of many sites on this:

https://all3dp.com/1/3d-metal-3d-printer-metal-3d-printing/

[Semper Vaporo]

I can attest that I have witnessed it!  She said it was easier to "Print" 10 copies of nothing to get 10 sheets of paper than to open the drawer and count out 10 sheets of paper that the boss told her to get for him.

[Deggesty]

tree68

Or sending someone to get some paper from the copy machine, so they put a blank sheet in and make copies of it...

 

If this really took place, such a person has been isolated from real life.

[BaltACD]

A continuous MIG welding process could be considered as a 3D steel printer. Managing the accumulating heat may be a problem.

[tree68]

Or sending someone to get some paper from the copy machine, so they put a blank sheet in and make copies of it...

[Paul Milenkovic]

Was it Scott Adams of the Dilbert cartoon or someone else commenting on the reasoning employed by some office workers?

An office was short on paper and when ordering more paper for delivery proved to have a long lead time, someone asked, "Couldn't they just fax us more?"

[tree68]

Really, all 3D printing is is making a solid substance plastic (ie, liquid) so it can be layered into an object.  

So, if you can make something plastic, and can successfully layer it (ie, bond successive layers), you can 3D print it.  Imagine stuff like 3D printed cake decorations, lost wax masters, you-name-it.

I'm sure there are those trying to wrap their heads around "printing" with carbon steel.

[GERALD L MCFARLANE JR]

MikeInPlano

 

MidlandMike

Maybe the RRs would be delivering the plastic raw material.

 

Exactly.  Printing a part is just shifting the point of production.  It still requires the same amount of raw materials.  So instead of shipping a boxcar full of widgets, the railroad ships a hopper full of plastic pellets.  Granted, that hoppper of pellets represents several boxcars of widgets, but the basic premise holds.

Not just plastic pellets, there's already 3-D printer(s) that will print metalic items, not sure exactly the base material being used, but it does print 3-D metal items.

[Overmod]

Some of the patterns have, in fact, been 3D printed, including I believe some from files initially captured as pointclouds.  I do not know whether additive rather than subtractive methods would always be 'better' for the lost-foam parts of the fabricated frame, but it's difficult to find sure examples where it wouldn't be suitable in principle.

Of course you wouldn't print the pressure parts directly, and there are a great many other parts that are better machined or forged (or made via progressive dies, even if the dies are braze-printed).  So don't look for the Shapeways kit that can be scaled to make your own version of Ed Woodings' engine any time soon...

I

[BaltACD]

Waiting for the T1 people to produce their engine by 3D printing.

[SD60MAC9500]

 

scilover

It won’t be surprising if 3D printing changes how things are manufactured in the railroad industry. Furthermore, a part of a Boeing 777x has already been 3D printed.

 

Wabtec is currently investigating a 3D printed radiator core for future use in the evolution series. Additionally other rail markets are targets as well well https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/wabtec-brings-industrial-3d-printing-to-the-rail-industry-with-purchase-of-ges-h2-155703/

https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2019/11/26-wabtec-lab-pioneering-metal-3d-printing

 

 

 

 

[scilover]

It won’t be surprising if 3D printing changes how things are manufactured in the railroad industry. Furthermore, a part of a Boeing 777x has already been 3D printed.

[MikeInPlano]

MidlandMike

Maybe the RRs would be delivering the plastic raw material.

Exactly.  Printing a part is just shifting the point of production.  It still requires the same amount of raw materials.  So instead of shipping a boxcar full of widgets, the railroad ships a hopper full of plastic pellets.  Granted, that hoppper of pellets represents several boxcars of widgets, but the basic premise holds.

[Overmod]

rrnut282

There are certain work-hardening processes during manufacturing of steel items, that I don't think can be replicated during 3-D printing.

Keep in mind that D-gun and metalspraying can be used as "3-D" fabrication methods, so it's not just additive particles in braze that won't benefit from forging that can be considered.  There is also no real reason what you 'print' cannot be a NNS blank that can be enveloped right on the printer and popped into hot isostatic pressing.    Note that in many cases it is theoretically possible to nanodistribute alloy components, key glide planes, etc. to develop desired structure without gross force management like rolling or hammer or die forging.

While they *may* be able to print a steel I-beam as needed, I don't think they will ever come up with a cheap way to print a pre-stressed concrete beam for bridges.

Not far from child's play... provided you have some good means of consolidating the concrete after it is formlessly placed -- this might involve inflatable or blown elements.  The only difference for prestress is that the tendons are let down outside form support; other reinforcement isn't tensioned.  Posttensioning of course occurs post-cure, when the beam has acquired sufficient compressive strength in cure.  You would probably 'print' these in gang, horizontally on their sides to allow proper camber, with the tendon ducts properly introduced and aligned during the print.

Now, the 3-D approach that went up for VC rounds a few years ago for architecture used printed reinforcement, with light aggregate being sprayed and consolidated in the somewhat as hoc trusswork and then skinned over with gunite, wall finishing systems, etc.  The gantry and head in this approach was lighter and more agile than the placing head connected to Schwing pump that 'followed up'...

Now, if 3d printing becomes cheap and fast enough, I can see them printing an axle/wheelset wherever needed, and schedule the replacement before it fails in a couple of years.

Now that, I doubt you'll see.  It's cheaper, better, and far safer to continue to roll these wheels, with directional solidification and multiple effective forging passes, than to additive-print one and then have to deal with surface wear and shock, tread pressure and spall, etc.  Corollaries for axles and seats.  I think you'll continue to see  wheels forged and treated and then pressed onto axles, not even 'centripetally agglomurated' like centrifugal casting in reverse.

Can you imagine a roving conductor showing up in his pickup truck with a printer in the back to print the right knuckle the first time?  No more walking back and forth to the head end for the other one.

I think Euclid missed the satire.  It's not the 'superconductor' in the autonomous rotordrone utility vehicle that is spared the walk of shame; it's the (presumably 2 or 1-man) crew on the train that is spared.

And let's be honest... rapid response for a knuckle is gonna be outsourced, just like Hulcher recovery, only with the equivalent of Jet Rangers and terrain-following gyroscope-stabilized ATVs.  And as contract work, perhaps safely out of the OR numbers reported in the quarterly analysts' conference call?

 

[/quote]

[Victrola1]

How long until we get replicators like those on the Starship U. S. S. Enterprise? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyMYKWIAR5s

 

[Euclid]

rrnut282

There are certain work-hardening processes during manufacturing of steel items, that I don't think can be replicated during 3-d printing. While they *may* be able to print a steel I-beam as needed, I don't think they will ever come up with a cheap way to print a pre-stressed concrete beam for bridges.

Now, if 3d printing becomes cheap and fast enough, I can see them printing an axle/wheelset wherever needed, and schedule the replacement before it fails in a couple of years. 

Can you imagine a roving conductor showing up in his pickup truck with a printer in the back to print the right knuckle the first time?  No more walking back and forth to the head end for the other one. 

 

Why not just show up in a pickup truck with a knuckle in the back?

[rrnut282]

There are certain work-hardening processes during manufacturing of steel items, that I don't think can be replicated during 3-d printing. While they *may* be able to print a steel I-beam as needed, I don't think they will ever come up with a cheap way to print a pre-stressed concrete beam for bridges.

Now, if 3d printing becomes cheap and fast enough, I can see them printing an axle/wheelset wherever needed, and schedule the replacement before it fails in a couple of years. 

Can you imagine a roving conductor showing up in his pickup truck with a printer in the back to print the right knuckle the first time?  No more walking back and forth to the head end for the other one. 

[Overmod]

Gramp

Would this be genuine 3D "printing" of a concrete building?

Most assuredly - complete with a couple of reinventing-the-wheel mistakes that they'll have to re-solve over time.

Note that placing reinforcing steel in these walls is nearly as easy for the robot as using a multiple printhead to place some kind of plastic reinforcement.  They have grossly insufficient bond between their courses, which could easily be addressed with a pre-sparge or spray either of watered cement 'slip' or a concrete bonding agent (acrylics for integrity; perhaps something polysaccharide-based for 'local material' reliance if that is important to them as stated).  It would also be simple to implement a little consolidation with nothing more complicated than a counterbalanced vibratory screed on the head.

This becomes more important when using relatively harsh mixtures with what may be compromised-quality (local sourcing, again) aggregates -- something I think I see in the video.  Things like 'fibergrass' reinforcement don't work well with concrete for highly predictable reasons; the necessary prep to use (and pump without segregation) something like short-wire shotcrete-style reinforcement is not something most 'local' projects are likely to feature.

Bet they make little mention of the costs and environmental impact of the necessary cleanup after each lift.  This was lots of fun for AVG fabrication, which is considerably quicker and can generally be 'shot' within a single delivered batch's workable time.

I wonder if accelerated steam curing could be inplemented with repeated passes of a multiaxis robot like this. People tend to forget steam curing as one of those regrettable Conmunist 'innovations' that produced awful things in practice, but it is a highly useful technology when used more correctly.

[tree68]

Would this be genuine 3D "printing" of a concrete building?

I would say so.

[Gramp]

Would this be genuine 3D "printing" of a concrete building?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=69HrqNnrfh4

[NittanyLion]

Overmod

3D printing techniques (both additive and subtractive) are of course just as applicable to patternmaking as to sacrificial cores, and in fact my oldest reference to 'plastic tooling' has some rudimentary discussion of what might be thought of today as on-demand shaping of tooling.

 

I don't recall exactly who he worked for at the time, but my brother was making aftermarket parts for locomotives and a few of their very, very old products were made that way.  Only reason he ever mentioned it was because of the novelty of referring to drawings from the late 40s to make the 3D model that would be sent off to the company that printed the part for them to use.

[Overmod]

tree68

I don't know just how that process works, but perhaps it's similar to lost wax.

Lost foam is very much like lost-wax in principle- the hot metal nearly immediately obliterates both the skin on the 'styrofoam' cores and the plastic foam within, the volatilized plastic blowing out the vents and gating right along with any trapped air or moisture.

3D printing techniques (both additive and subtractive) are of course just as applicable to patternmaking as to sacrificial cores, and in fact my oldest reference to 'plastic tooling' has some rudimentary discussion of what might be thought of today as on-demand shaping of tooling.