As luck would have it, we got two cars in yesterday. The guys probably thought I was crazy, walking around with my tape measure and taking pictures. I probably am.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Hey Murphy, why don't you go out into your yard and take some photos of the bolster and springs of one of the lumber cars in both the loaded and unloaded condition, and post or link to the photos here? Or measure the distance from the top of the opening to the top of the bolster at all 4 places (1 each side of each truck) and average them for each condition, and post those figures here?
The distance the bolster 'sinks' depresses the springs in the loaded condition vs. unloaded has to be limited to only a couple inches (can't recall the exact number). The reason is that AAR has specs for the tolerances of the coupler height above the rails (also taking into account the physical wear of various parts). That's so that the couplers don't inadvertently get mismatched so badly that they separate. The worst case scenario would be an unloaded car with a new coupler and draft gear (high) coupled to a loaded car with a badly worn coupler shank and draft gear (low), going over a sharp summit vertical curve.
- PDN.
Murphy SidingI'm not sure how you would build camber into a tank car.
The most likely would be to assemble the shell from a series of 'rings', each with slightly different facial angles. Like assembling part of a very large radius torus. A different approach can be seen with Amfleet cars (which can be thought of as a constructed 'tube' and were built with substantial visible camber)
But these tank cars aren't showing camber -- if they were, the 'empties' would visibly bow upward and the cars would run visibly 'flat' when loaded. That being the whole point of camber in the first place. Visible "sag" is almost always, as noted, intentional in the car design to make gravity unloading quicker or more positive, especially for viscous product. Part of the 'key' here is that the portions of car either side are visibly straight; this is not a continuous 'swayback' as progressive fatigue might produce.
That's not to say that a given observer might not be able to discriminate fine deflection between empty and loaded examples of the same car series. I would think, however, that anyone who can't 'tell' from the spring deflection would be able to 'tell' more from tank deflection...
Masters of metal working can get it to do just about anything they want it to do.
The following video is about working aluminum for a car - similar things can be done in fabricating steel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR8AvJjMXyg
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
tree68 Murphy Siding Are you meaning visibly sagging in the middle like the Oscar Meyer Weinermobile? I believe they're built that way. Any sag would be virtually undetectable. They're not like the highway flatbeds with the curve built in.
Murphy Siding Are you meaning visibly sagging in the middle like the Oscar Meyer Weinermobile?
I believe they're built that way. Any sag would be virtually undetectable. They're not like the highway flatbeds with the curve built in.
LehighLadRe empty vs. loaded, and I havent seen this mentioned, my method is to look at the tank. If it's sagging, it's loaded, otherwise not sagging = not loaded.
Many bottom discharge tank cars are constructed with a sag in the center to aid in unloading.
Murphy SidingAre you meaning visibly sagging in the middle like the Oscar Meyer Weinermobile?
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I've seen a few "sway back" cars, but never thought that might be indicating the load state. I'll have to be on the lookout for that and check it against my tell.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
LehighLad Lithonia Operator Murph, it sounds like you know the turf and the situation, so I don't doubt they are empties. But I'm curious: can you tell whether a tank car is full/empty just by looking at it? And are there "tells" re other cars, also? For example, covered hoppers. Re empty vs. loaded, and I havent seen this mentioned, my method is to look at the tank. If it's sagging, it's loaded, otherwise not sagging = not loaded.
Lithonia Operator Murph, it sounds like you know the turf and the situation, so I don't doubt they are empties. But I'm curious: can you tell whether a tank car is full/empty just by looking at it? And are there "tells" re other cars, also? For example, covered hoppers.
Murph, it sounds like you know the turf and the situation, so I don't doubt they are empties.
But I'm curious: can you tell whether a tank car is full/empty just by looking at it?
And are there "tells" re other cars, also? For example, covered hoppers.
Re empty vs. loaded, and I havent seen this mentioned, my method is to look at the tank. If it's sagging, it's loaded, otherwise not sagging = not loaded.
Some flexing does occur with good ballast, but it is more common on poorly maintained track.
One way not mentioned to tell if a car is loaded or empty is to watch the track as each truck moves over it. It will noticeably flex downward more with a heavy load. At least that works with Louisiiana dirt; I don't know about rocky terrain.
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
tree68Meme recently seen on FB: How many weeks per gallon are you getting?
I'll have to get gas before the end of the month - or lose 60 cents or more a gallon off from my local grocery store.
Discover picked a bad time (from the customers perspective) to offer additional cash back on gasoline purchases from April through June.
Overmod . . . Don't think that because a three-piece truck is simple, it isn't extremely capable when its detail design has been done right.
Semper Vaporo Lithonia Operator can you tell whether a tank car is full/empty just by looking at it? And are there "tells" re other cars, also? For example, covered hoppers. You can tell when looking at the side of the wheels/bogey/truck (whatever you want to call it) On top of the springs is a box girder that is the cross member from one side of the truck to the other. The car is setting on that member, free to pivot on it at the center. The ends of that member are setting on the springs that are setting on the lower portion of the side frame. The wheels are on the axle that the side frame is resting on. The weight bearing path, from the rail to the car is, wheels, axle, side frame, springs, cross member, car pivot point. But back to that girder/cross member. It is usually divided into two sections across its length by a vertical web. So, from the end, what you see is two rectangles next to each other, sharing one side in the center (that web). That cross member is free to move up and down inside the side frame in the area occupied by the springs and the cross member (or maybe the side frame is free to move vertically around the cross member, depending on how you want to consider it). The area below the cross member is filled by the springs, but above the cross member is free space that is about the same size and shape as the end of the cross member. Compare the height of the cross member to the space above it. When the car is empty that space will be slightly smaller (in height) than the height of the cross member and when the car is fully loaded that space will be slightly taller than the cross member (the springs being compressed). Careful compareson of the height of those two rectangular spaces will give you some idea of whether the car is full or empty. It can be hard to tell on some cars if it was designed to carry a heavy product, (thus it has stronger or more springs), but if it is repurposed to carry a light product the springs won't compress much and the two spaces can not be relied upon to detect the load status.
Lithonia Operator can you tell whether a tank car is full/empty just by looking at it? And are there "tells" re other cars, also? For example, covered hoppers.
You can tell when looking at the side of the wheels/bogey/truck (whatever you want to call it) On top of the springs is a box girder that is the cross member from one side of the truck to the other. The car is setting on that member, free to pivot on it at the center. The ends of that member are setting on the springs that are setting on the lower portion of the side frame. The wheels are on the axle that the side frame is resting on.
The weight bearing path, from the rail to the car is, wheels, axle, side frame, springs, cross member, car pivot point.
But back to that girder/cross member. It is usually divided into two sections across its length by a vertical web. So, from the end, what you see is two rectangles next to each other, sharing one side in the center (that web). That cross member is free to move up and down inside the side frame in the area occupied by the springs and the cross member (or maybe the side frame is free to move vertically around the cross member, depending on how you want to consider it). The area below the cross member is filled by the springs, but above the cross member is free space that is about the same size and shape as the end of the cross member.
Compare the height of the cross member to the space above it.
When the car is empty that space will be slightly smaller (in height) than the height of the cross member and when the car is fully loaded that space will be slightly taller than the cross member (the springs being compressed). Careful compareson of the height of those two rectangular spaces will give you some idea of whether the car is full or empty.
It can be hard to tell on some cars if it was designed to carry a heavy product, (thus it has stronger or more springs), but if it is repurposed to carry a light product the springs won't compress much and the two spaces can not be relied upon to detect the load status.
That's how I tell loaded from empty...
Truck parts:
Two side frames
A bolster (most times with friction wedges)
Springs
Brake beams and levers
Wheelsets with cartridge bearings and bearing adapters
The whole deal goes together rather simply. The bolster slides into the top of the truck frames. The springs go in by hand between the bolter and the side frame and you can then let the bolster rest on the springs. The bearing adapters go on the top to the bearings and then you lower the whole assembly onto the wheel sets. Install the brake beam and levers and pins. These are held in place by cotter pins. That's it.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Semper Vaporoeven box girder is probably not a good description except to say that when viewed from the end you see a box shape.
"Box girder" is a reasonable characterization of the kind of welded-bolster construction being described, including the stiffening web in the middle. There's a wealth of patents for various kinds of bolster design, including those for 'high-speed' three-piece trucks (a fascinating evolution in and of itself!) and various methods of precluding truck skew at the bolster as wear progresses...
I found it fascinating that in the early Seventies a comparatively large range of 'interchange' trucks was found perfectly suitable for peak operating speed of 90mph, without the anti-lozenging features I thought would surely be necessary for safety in that range. Don't think that because a three-piece truck is simple, it isn't extremely capable when its detail design has been done right.
Yeah, I knew it had a proper name and would have used it and called it a box girder just as a description, but my brain had left the room when I started writing and I could not remember the name... even box girder is probably not a good descrition except to say that when viewed from the end you see a box shape.
1019xThe correct name for the "box girder" is truck bolster.
More specifically, three-piece-truck bolster (other designs of truck have very different construction, and there are a number of highly-interesting patents for detail design of three-piece truck bolsters of alternative construction).
I think he was trying to explain to someone who said he was a 'layman' in engineering (and, as I recall, also said that he had trouble distinguishing loaded spring depression range from unloaded) what to look for in the side view of a three-piece truck. I admit that I'd start by describing what the bolster does, and then go on to describe what it usually looks like and how its end appears, but I'm more of a tech fiend than the person who was asking.
The correct name for the "box girder" is truck bolster.
Yes, the Ethanol industry is in trouble. With prices of fuel this low, sales of ethanol right now are at or below the cost of production. The small refinery waivers have also reduced demand. Ethanol could compete with gas now if the price of corn was low, but that would be a serious blow to Agriculture.
samfp1943 Murphy S. Take from me; Your hearing will be more and more of a problem... It will get better; when your wife tells you to go get hearing aids- or she orders you a set from Amazon ! As your hearing gets better, it will; be a very high pitched sound relaying the above information...
Murphy S.
Take from me; Your hearing will be more and more of a problem... It will get better; when your wife tells you to go get hearing aids- or she orders you a set from Amazon ! As your hearing gets better, it will; be a very high pitched sound relaying the above information...
Lithonia Operatorcan you tell whether a tank car is full/empty just by looking at it? And are there "tells" re other cars, also? For example, covered hoppers.
BaltACD Lithonia Operator Murph, it sounds like you know the turf and the situation, so I don't doubt they are empties. But I'm curious: can you tell whether a tank car is full/empty just by looking at it? And are there "tells" re other cars, also? For example, covered hoppers. The biggest 'tell' is knowing traffic patterns. If you get close enough to view the spings on the car you can see them more compressed on a load than they are on a empty. If you have a fine ear you can hear a different sound between loads and empties as sound waves resonate differently between loaded and empty cars. The third way is to listen to the wheel/rail interface in the track structure - you hear sounds in the track structure created by the additional weight.
The biggest 'tell' is knowing traffic patterns. If you get close enough to view the spings on the car you can see them more compressed on a load than they are on a empty. If you have a fine ear you can hear a different sound between loads and empties as sound waves resonate differently between loaded and empty cars. The third way is to listen to the wheel/rail interface in the track structure - you hear sounds in the track structure created by the additional weight.
Quoting Overmod: " What the Bible says is essentially in line with STRONG drink being a mocker;..."
Some wine may seem strong to some, but Proverbs, chapter 20, verse 1, says, "Wine is a mocker; strong drink is raging (or a brawler), and whoever is led astray by it is not wise."
Did you ever read My Talks with Dean Spanley by Lord Dunsany? Under the influence of Tokay wine, the good dean would recount tales of his life as a dog.
Yes, we should be moderate in our use of ethanol in all of the carriers.
Johnny
samfp1943..." a tip of 'Jack' with water by it, was a drink of choice. Then my doctor, said it was bad for me, and it would do ugly things to my body...
The greatest source of the 'ugliness' is the congeners, including the fusel oils. Of course, some of them produce the particular flavor of particular favorite wee drams.
Just as we have Neurosine as a deprecated indication of the medical value of C. sativa, we have a book published in the late '40s on the health and medical benefits of beverage alcohol. It is probably far from the inevitable wicked evil so many busybodies over the years have made it out to be, although if you truly want a headache work your way through the thirty-odd specific and often contradictory effects alcohol has on the human body...
Meanwhile -- I have never entirely understood why fundamentalist Christians try to be teetotalers. What the Bible says is essentially in line with STRONG drink being a mocker; moderation is a different thing entirely. Then your believers have to get around what was being served in the upper room the night of Gethsemane ... it sure wasn't Welch's.
Of course you can reasonably tell if theology has been doctored by a particular sect when you hear some of the frankly remarkable excuses for Christ's first miracle. Some of them are more than a little reminiscent of Clinton's 'I never inhaled'...
Lithonia OperatorMurph, it sounds like you know the turf and the situation, so I don't doubt they are empties. But I'm curious: can you tell whether a tank car is full/empty just by looking at it? And are there "tells" re other cars, also? For example, covered hoppers.
York1 This was in my little town's paper this morning. It was an e-edition, so I couldn't copy it, and it's a pay site, so I just took some screen shots. Sorry. Anyway, the ethanol plants are working with the University of Nebraska to produce sanitizer.
This was in my little town's paper this morning. It was an e-edition, so I couldn't copy it, and it's a pay site, so I just took some screen shots. Sorry.
Anyway, the ethanol plants are working with the University of Nebraska to produce sanitizer.
MidlandMike In Michigan they closed the bars and dine-in restaurants, and craft distilleries are using their excess alcohol to make hand sanitizer.
In Michigan they closed the bars and dine-in restaurants, and craft distilleries are using their excess alcohol to make hand sanitizer.
Same here in my area. There's two quart bottles of "moonshine" at the fire station, plainly marked "food grade sanitizer..."
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