Lord help them if they dump several carloads of tourists into that lake with that level of roadbed maintenance.
Yeah, the condition of the ROW surprised me, too; I don't remember it that way. Of course I didn't spend much time looking down, and we didn't go all the way to Carcross.
Brian (IA) http://blhanel.rrpicturearchives.net.
blhanelWow, a real nostalgia trip. My wife and I rode from Skagway to just beyond the border and back in late May 2016. One of the best train rides I've ever been on.
Right of way had too much green within the borders of the roadbed for my taste. Saw a pile of two of replaced ties, would have like to have seen more. With the WP&Y being a predominately passenger carrier they need to maintain the track structure a higher standard than I viewed.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Wow, a real nostalgia trip. My wife and I rode from Skagway to just beyond the border and back in late May 2016. One of the best train rides I've ever been on.
Cab ride 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItXsjkC1vA0
Thank You.
NDG WP&Y. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/white-pass-new-locomotives-1.5499628 Thank You.
Nice photo showing the abandoned cantilever bridge.
They look like shrunken SD45's with the cab from a BQ23-7. They would look quite at home on EFVM (meter-gauge) in Brazil, especially when lashed up with a DDM45.
Overmod I give the 'scare' no more than a few extra months (which in my uncredentialed but I think knowledgeable opinion should be no more than weeks) before it will have run its effective course, and 'tourism' to northern points becomes thinkable again as a non-stranding risk.
I give the 'scare' no more than a few extra months (which in my uncredentialed but I think knowledgeable opinion should be no more than weeks) before it will have run its effective course, and 'tourism' to northern points becomes thinkable again as a non-stranding risk.
Fred M CainIf it gets bad enough, there could be a lot of people who would balk at taking a cruise. Carnival could go bankrupt. In that worst case scenario, the line to Whitehorse will never get repaired.
There'll always be a resumption of cruise traffic -- even if millions of potential customers were to die in the transient plague waves.
And there'll always be some operator, or group of people, who will buy the ships and other assets from a 'bankrupt' Carnival and start up the service again.
WP&Y doesn't give a crap who the cruise operator is, so long as they have marketing arrangements with them and can accommodate the 'butts' in seats and at attractions.
I give the 'scare' no more than a few extra months (which in my uncredentialed but I think knowledgeable opinion should be no more than weeks) before it will have run its effective course, and 'tourism' to northern points becomes thinkable again as a non-stranding risk. Any presumptive work to Whitehorse will likely continue on some version of that assumption ... as any actual restoration work wouldn't even commence for some months at the earliest, and likely wouldn't be 'complete' net of buildout of suitable atttraction at Whitehorse for years.
I believe the WP&Y DL535 locomotives are the prototypes for the LGB large scale diesel locomotives.
https://www.lgb.com/products/details/article/25556/75/?tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bbacklink%5D=75&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bpage%5D=1&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bperpage%5D=10&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bera%5D=&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bnewonly%5D=0&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bgaugechoice%5D=37&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bgroupchoice%5D=97&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bsubgroupchoice%5D=&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bfilter%5D=1&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bpagesort%5D=artnrasc&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5BbrandId%5D=7&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5BnoPaging%5D=
https://railpictures.net/photo/707445/
https://railpictures.net/photo/693241/
https://railpictures.net/photo/514845/
https://railpictures.net/photo/514207/
https://railpictures.net/photo/490823/
https://railpictures.net/photo/490584/
https://railpictures.net/photo/489493/
https://railpictures.net/photo/370670/
Overmod Here's the manufacturer's page for the Bradken 5650 trucks -- unfortunately this appears to be one of those 'sites' for which you have to Contact the Local Representative if you want any technical information (after which you can expect either long delays, if not a paying prospect, or endless sales call attempts/emails if you are...) I encourage someone with more patience, or perhaps deeper pockets, to post detail here.
Here's the manufacturer's page for the Bradken 5650 trucks -- unfortunately this appears to be one of those 'sites' for which you have to Contact the Local Representative if you want any technical information (after which you can expect either long delays, if not a paying prospect, or endless sales call attempts/emails if you are...)
I encourage someone with more patience, or perhaps deeper pockets, to post detail here.
The "5650" might be a drawing number...
If so it may be an MLW or Dofasco drawing.
These trucks are a lightweight version of the MLW-Dofasco trucks used under M630 and M636 locomotives. The design dates back to 1970 and was used under the Goodwin built DL-500G. Most of the 45 units built have remained in use in some form, extensively rebuilt in some cases with FDL-12 or 645F3 engines. Although lighter, the wheel diameter and wheelbase are the same as those on the domestic MLW units. This may be the case with the 36" gauge trucks.
The earliest trucks I've seen lettered "5650" are those under the Goninan built CM30-8 cab units dating to 1990. These were cast in Canada by Dofasco.
As well as the NREC "1100 class", the 5650 trucks are used under their main competitor, the Cummins powered Motive Power MP27C and MP33C.
It is relatively common to see locomotives with the the recent trucks coupled to those with the Australian cast 1970 trucks, and the design similarity is clear.
Peter
Electroliner 1935 What I'm curious about is why they bought locomotives with outside walkways. All their units have been cold weather covered wagons
What I'm curious about is why they bought locomotives with outside walkways. All their units have been cold weather covered wagons
The WP&Y have had hood units since 1969.
These are Alco DL-535 units, some of which were started at Schenectady but completed in Montreal.
Those Qube locomotives aren't exactly the prettiest dizzels around, but what the hell, when you come right down to it they don't have to look good, they just have to work.
http://www.emr.gov.yk.ca/mining/minto.html
Minto trucks a concentrate to Port ( Skagway)
The open pit is closed.. all the Mining is underground drill, blast, muck out with the Mill for mineral processing on site.
Its on a 2 week in- 2 week out rotation.
Now here is a most interesting article from last summer. I have no idea what the implications are for the WP&Y but the very idea of shipping ore out of Skagway is not completely dead - whether the the WP&Y hauls it or not.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/yukon-ak-skagway-ore-dock-1.5249974
The Minto Mine was mentioned in the article. I think, according to Google, that's about an hour's drive NORTH of Whitehorse.
Hmmmmn. Sehr interessante !
-Fred M. Cain
cx500 Just before entering Whitehorse the railway and road squeezed together against some unstable bluffs with the Yukon River on the other side, and I have no idea how that area is today. John
Just before entering Whitehorse the railway and road squeezed together against some unstable bluffs with the Yukon River on the other side, and I have no idea how that area is today.
John
John,
Once again, trying to use Google "Street View", I can see the track running along the bottom of the bluff and it appears to be fine except for a stretch of a few hundred feet where it looks like it's been covered by a rock slide. I don't think that would be hard to clear but if the Highway Dept tries to insist that the railroad stablilize the bluff in the process, that could prove to be a deal killer.
Also, I had a hard time following the right of way south of Whitehorse on Google Earth. It appears to disappear only to reappear again. Does anybody have any additional information on its status?
Here is what David Lustig said (quoting Carnival) in the December, 2018 TRAINS article.
"We feel that maintaining the right of way between Carcross and Whitehorse is possibly a future opportunity for future tourist traffic for the White Pass & Yukon Route," the railroad says in a statement to Trains News Wire. "Our tentative initial plans are to clear the brush and the communication wires over a several year period. The necessary costs of replacing bridges, culverts, roadbed and track are considerable. However, while we have no immediate plans to provide passenger service between Carcross and Whitehorse, we want to preserve that opportunity in the event traffic warrants restoring this service."
https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/12/17-white-pass-rebuilds-equipment-plans-expansion
That actually sounds pretty upbeat. Or, as about as upbeat as it gets at this point in time. Will it happen? Maybe. As the news stands with the coronavirus, Carnival is going to be in for a bad year this year. So, I wouln't expect anything to happen anytime soon until they figure out where they stand financially.
Regards,
Fred M. Cain
Once you get north of Carcross the scenery gets rather less interesting, mostly through forest from what I remember. Compared with scenic views south of Carcross, very much a disappointment. That portion would serve a transportation role rather than an exciting tourist experience, and the transportation need is unlikely to be sufficient to come even close to covering operating cost, let alone the initial rehabilitation costs. Just before entering Whitehorse the railway and road squeezed together against some unstable bluffs with the Yukon River on the other side, and I have no idea how that area is today.
Well, group, I sent an e-mail to the WP&YR, not really expecting an answer, asking them if they would consider restoring the line from Carcross to Whitehorse. However, they did respond!
They stated that they "…have no announced plans to restore service to Whitehorse." Hmmmn. That word "announced" kinda jumped out at me. Reading between the lines, it sounds like they have no intention of restoring service to Whitehorse anytime soon but neither is such an idea completely off the table.
The haulage of ore was not mentioned nor did I ask about it. However, it could be that they might one day see it as desirable to provide tourists with a longer ride all the way to Whitehorse. Better yet, there might be more hotel, restaurant and entertainment facilities in Whitehorse than in Skagway - or at least as many. Perhaps they could offer tourists a trip to Whitehorse where they could spend the night in a hotel and part of the day in Whitehorse returning to their ship the next day.
But, of course, I'm speculating here. It was, however, mentioned in a TRAINS Magazine article a few years ago that they might someday restore the north end of the line. However, for trains to reach downtown Whitehorse again, that might be an issue. I found an online article from a Yukon newspaper mentioning that much of the track intown "has been demolished". However, Google "street views" show it as still intact albeit badly overgrown with brush in places and grade crossings paved over. I don’t know how old those images are, though. They might be 15 years old or older. If they are that old, part of the in-town track may have since been dismantled.
Here is a broadside view of the Qube locomotives. Six axle units.
https://railpictures.net/photo/726986/
Fred M CainIt would just seem to me that a grand total of four Diesels (in addition to their current roster of older units) ought to be able to easily handle four round trips a day. How many round trips are they looking at?
When I was there in sept 2013, there were 4 cruise liners in port (the inside passage ports all seemed to have a docking capacity for 4 ships, and on my trip they were always at capacity, and in Juneau a fifth ship lightered passengers into port). The trains backed up to each dock, and there was an AM and PM train at each ship, so 8 trains a day just for the ships. Plus there were a couple of trains from the Skagway station, so a total of 10 trains a day to White Pass, with one or two of them going further to Fraser or Carcaross. Most of the trains were multi-units with 10-12 cars.
(Hope the track and bridge structures don't suffer from these larger beasts)
During tourist season, it's heavy traffic on the line on an orchestrated schedule to keep it all moving out and back from the cruise ships (run like streetcars?)
Saw a picture somewhere and they were 6-axle.
NDG Maybe the Geoligists have located another Ore Body?? Ask M. M . Thank You.
Maybe the Geoligists have located another Ore Body??
Ask M. M .
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