OK, I'm glad the truck driver and his dog are not hurt too bad. I don't want anyone to get hurt. But...
Read this.
https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/02/07/overturned-18-wheeler-spills-pig-parts-all-over-freeway-in-rosenburg-area-authorities-say/
The driver was hauling "Pig Parts" (It looks like hams to me) from Illinois to the Mexican border. Texas just doesn't produce a whole lot of pork. In December 2019 the US exported 145,904,141 tons of pork to Mexico. Based on this driver's 21 ton load that would be 3,474 trucks, or 112 trucks per day.
There is no place in the world better than the US Midwest to raise hogs. (You do not want to move livestock. Move the killed meat instead.)
And the Union Pacific, which coveres the US Midwest, doesn't haul a pound of pork to Mexico. There's plenty of northbound temperature contolled freight demand. (Tomatoes, avocadoes, limes.) So you'll have a two way revenue haul.
What can I say? They just do not understand market development.
Are difficulties with sustained speed and keeping a schedule also part of why these opportunities are not sought after?
Ken - check your units: 3,474 trucks/ month x 21 tons = 72,954 tons.
145,904,141 lbs. = 72,952 (2,000 lb.) tons.
That said, I agree with your basic premise - but you know the territory way better than I ever will.
Many have commented before on the rails' lack of ability to market - this is just one more example.
- PDN.
A while back I caught a westbound Z train. Those trains don't normally go to us short pool guys, only if there has been a disruption that causes the long pool to fall short on their HOS or if the intermodals do work. Usually Z trains don't do work, but this one did. We went to Council Bluffs and picked containers. That was unusual. I don't remember now how many we picked up, but we increased our length by about 3000/3500 feet to over 10000 ft. Enough that we had to reconfigure the engine consist from conventional to DP. Usually westbound containers have gone to North Platte in the daily freight out of CB or, lately, they have a regular I train go to CB and pick up.
Once I had the new paperwork I think I saw why the Z did this. It was mostly (about 3/4 of the containers) meat going west. I think it was all export and I assume it was pork out of western Iowa. They may still have the long haul mentality , but at least it's a start.
There were a lot of those power unit containers with cables running to individual containers. I think it was the most I've ever seen of those and I was amazed at how far they ran the cables to the containers.
Jeff
jeffhergert A while back I caught a westbound Z train. Those trains don't normally go to us short pool guys, only if there has been a disruption that causes the long pool to fall short on their HOS or if the intermodals do work. Usually Z trains don't do work, but this one did. We went to Council Bluffs and picked containers. That was unusual. I don't remember now how many we picked up, but we increased our length by about 3000/3500 feet to over 10000 ft. Enough that we had to reconfigure the engine consist from conventional to DP. Usually westbound containers have gone to North Platte in the daily freight out of CB or, lately, they have a regular I train go to CB and pick up. Once I had the new paperwork I think I saw why the Z did this. It was mostly (about 3/4 of the containers) meat going west. I think it was all export and I assume it was pork out of western Iowa. They may still have the long haul mentality , but at least it's a start. There were a lot of those power unit containers with cables running to individual containers. I think it was the most I've ever seen of those and I was amazed at how far they ran the cables to the containers. Jeff
Well, that's it right there. On those westbound container loads someone else was doing the marketing. Probably the ship line that wanted the business and knew how to get it. They just went to the UP and told them they wanted a whole bunch of containers moved. And all the UP had to do was say yes. One out of four hogs killed in the US now goes for export. Mexico is the number one destination for volume. Japan is the number one destination by value. The Japanese want a particular breed of hog that cost more. With modern packaging methods fresh, not frozen, pork can be moved to Asia by ocean freight.
I spent some time trying to set up some 3rd party operations to move meat by rail. Triumph Foods is a hog producer owned slaughter operation. At the time they had one large facility in St. Joseph, MO. (20,000 head per day). I did a phone marketing interview with their logistics manager and asked her if they used intermodal. She said the export loads to the west coast went intermodal but the domestic loads went over the road. Well, if you can haul the export you can haul the domestic. There is minimal pork production in the west. It all depends of who is doing the marketing. And the railroads just ain't too good at that. There are expidited trains out of Kansas City to the west coast population centers. Get the pork chop loads on the trains. (This freight is going to go intermodal.)
Beating the railroads over the head for this won't do any good. It would be like whipping a race horse running as fast as he/she can. It's just useless. The railroads don't have the ability or culture to develop markets. That's it.
Why attempt to market services that you can't deliver?
charlie hebdo Why attempt to market services that you can't deliver?
Or don't want to, for whatever reason.
I'm more annoyed by the sloppy reporting. Pig parts? Looks more like whatever was on that rig was processed and packaged. "Pig parts" sounds more like something nasty rolling around loose.
Was the news story written by a vegan?
Flintlock76Was the news story written by a vegan?
Although I normally try to avoid cheap yocks, it becomes almost impossible not to note that this story was promulgated by a Daniela Sternitzky-di Napoli, who included this immortal color line in the story:
"He [the 'pig-parts' driver] said he had to bust the windshield with his steel toe boots so he and his dog, Whopper, could get out.
Now that's Pulitzer grade fact recounting!
I take it the trucker and his dog both enjoy Burger King products while on the road!
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
I suspect he is a big dog, and it takes both hands to handle him.
Paul_D_North_Jr Ken - check your units: 3,474 trucks/ month x 21 tons = 72,954 tons. 145,904,141 lbs. = 72,952 (2,000 lb.) tons. That said, I agree with your basic premise - but you know the territory way better than I ever will. Many have commented before on the rails' lack of ability to market - this is just one more example. - PDN.
Paul,
You're right. My typing error.
Ken
Flintlock76 charlie hebdo Why attempt to market services that you can't deliver? Or don't want to, for whatever reason. I'm more annoyed by the sloppy reporting. Pig parts? Looks more like whatever was on that rig was processed and packaged. "Pig parts" sounds more like something nasty rolling around loose. Was the news story written by a vegan?
"Pig parts" certainly does not sound enticing as a food.
Johnny
Oh, the the UP can deliver the required service. They just need a reason to do so. And that reason/justification has to come from the marketing department. I've been involved with moving meat by rail. It works fine as long as the operating people are motivated. Sometimes they do need a boot up their rear. And it needs to be an executive level boot.
greyhounds Paul_D_North_Jr Ken - check your units: 3,474 trucks/ month x 21 tons = 72,954 tons. 145,904,141 lbs. = 72,952 (2,000 lb.) tons. That said, I agree with your basic premise - but you know the territory way better than I ever will. Many have commented before on the rails' lack of ability to market - this is just one more example. - PDN. Paul, It's 145,904,141 tons (short tons), not 145,904,141 pounds. There's a whole lot of pork moving from the Midwest to Mexico and the UP needs to get in the game. Ken
It's 145,904,141 tons (short tons), not 145,904,141 pounds. There's a whole lot of pork moving from the Midwest to Mexico and the UP needs to get in the game.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
greyhounds And it needs to be an executive level boot.
How can you be a precisely scheduled railroad operating with as few locomotives and people as possible if you have marketing people out there trying to drum up more business?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Murphy Siding greyhounds Paul_D_North_Jr Ken - check your units: 3,474 trucks/ month x 21 tons = 72,954 tons. 145,904,141 lbs. = 72,952 (2,000 lb.) tons. That said, I agree with your basic premise - but you know the territory way better than I ever will. Many have commented before on the rails' lack of ability to market - this is just one more example. - PDN. Paul, It's 145,904,141 tons (short tons), not 145,904,141 pounds. There's a whole lot of pork moving from the Midwest to Mexico and the UP needs to get in the game. Ken I don't want to belabor things, but can you restate the math part? I'm, coming up with almost 7 million trucks of pig parts shipped to Mexico in December 2019.145,904,141 tons divided by 21 tons/truck = 6,947,816 turucks per month?
I don't want to belabor things, but can you restate the math part? I'm, coming up with almost 7 million trucks of pig parts shipped to Mexico in December 2019.145,904,141 tons divided by 21 tons/truck = 6,947,816 turucks per month?
Restated: as in Paul is right. I screwed up on my original post and switched tons for pounds. I got the number of trucks right, but I did mislable the volume number. My bad.
jeffhergert Once I had the new paperwork I think I saw why the Z did this. It was mostly (about 3/4 of the containers) meat going west. I think it was all export and I assume it was pork out of western Iowa. They may still have the long haul mentality , but at least it's a start. There were a lot of those power unit containers with cables running to individual containers. I think it was the most I've ever seen of those and I was amazed at how far they ran the cables to the containers. Jeff
I'll come back to this. There is nothing as good as boots and eyes on the ground (or in the cab).
If this was export meat it tells a story. The west coast produces minimal pork. They're also deficient in the production of beef and chicken relative to the wants and needs of their population. So red meat and chicken are brought in from the Midwest and South. In great volumes.
Of course the west coast, along with Arizona and Idaho, produce a lot of the fruits and vegetables consumed in the eastern parts of the US and Canada. So there's a great opportunity for two way revenue movement.
The fact that the UP is handling the export meat to the west coast while leaving the large volume of domestic shipments on the highway speaks to the weakness of their marketing efforts. Add 20 domestic loads, for example, to that pick up and the marginal cost of doing so would be negligible. The added revenue would be not negligible. They've got to see these opportunities and act on them.
zugmann greyhounds And it needs to be an executive level boot. How can you be a precisely scheduled railroad operating with as few locomotives and people as possible if you have marketing people out there trying to drum up more business?
There's people out there trying to drum up buisness? It seems more like someone (and the number's probably dwindling) to answer the phone or check e-mail/website contacts. Our employee website has a place to tell them of business opprotunities the field work force sees so they can follow up.
That is, if it's "appropriate business" that they haven't convinced themselves that's not worth their time.
We make announcements that we're all in on an intermodal facility on a short line (Shell Rock IA - Iowa Northern) but won't load containers for the cereal companies at Beverly IA. It was said local management was working with those companies, but Marketing told them we weren't going to do it and to mind their (local mgmt) own business. It wouldn't be the first time they've turned up their nose at business that only nets them 5 or 6 million dollars.
In implementing PSR, CSX basically eliminated what little Marketing Dept. they did have.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I'm with ya all the way on this matter Greyhounds but I personally want the livestock as well. :)
I keep hoping and praying that one day, some day not terribly far down the road, the CN will finally realize what potential they have for meat and meat products in Iowa. We can only hope.
Los Angeles Rams Guy I'm with ya all the way on this matter Greyhounds but I personally want the livestock as well. :) I keep hoping and praying that one day, some day not terribly far down the road, the CN will finally realize what potential they have for meat and meat products in Iowa. We can only hope.
No livestock. A very wise and experienced mentor once taught me that the two most difficult things to transport are: 1) ice cream and, 2) livestock. If you have a problem moving either one you're going to buy the load. Ice cream is but a cost. Livestock gets in to the humane care of animals. Something I insist on. Now, I like to eat meat. I have no objections to proper slaughter of animals for human consumption. But until the proper kill is done the animal must be handled humanely. I've shot animals, cleaned and dressed them, and eaten them. I think that's just normal
You cannot habituate a farm animal to transport. It stresses them. (dogs are different, they love a ride) A steer will loose 100 pounds in the first 24 hours of transport. If someone has just spent a lot of time, money and effort to put weight on the steer this will drive that person nuts.
The solution is to minimize transport of the livestock. That's why the packing houses are near the production areas such as Iowa. Or in Nebraska, Kansas, the panhandle of Texas, and western Illinois. (Alright, Sioux Falls, southern Minnesota, and Missouri too)
The railroads have a large volume, good revenue, long haul opportunity. They just don't see it or know how to exploit it. That's the problem.
As far as the CN goes, if a marketing person walked in to his/her boss and proposed going for a relatively short haul where the revenue had to be split with an eastern carrier that would get most of the money, they'd be putting their career in jeopardy.
A solution for the vastly underutilized CN lines would be to give the NS trackage rights to Sioux City, Council Bluffs and St. Paul. Then it would be a single carrier long haul move to the east coast population centers.
greyhounds Los Angeles Rams Guy I'm with ya all the way on this matter Greyhounds but I personally want the livestock as well. :) I keep hoping and praying that one day, some day not terribly far down the road, the CN will finally realize what potential they have for meat and meat products in Iowa. We can only hope. No livestock. A very wise and experienced mentor once taught me that the two most difficult things to transport are: 1) ice cream and, 2) livestock. If you have a problem moving either one you're going to buy the load. Ice cream is but a cost. Livestock gets in to the humane care of animals. Something I insist on. Now, I like to eat meat. I have no objections to proper slaughter of animals for human consumption. But until the proper kill is done the animal must be handled humanely. I've shot animals, cleaned and dressed them, and eaten them. I think that's just normal You cannot habituate a farm animal to transport. It stresses them. (dogs are different, they love a ride) A steer will loose 100 pounds in the first 24 hours of transport. If someone has just spent a lot of time, money and effort to put weight on the steer this will drive that person nuts. The solution is to minimize transport of the livestock. That's why the packing houses are near the production areas such as Iowa. Or in Nebraska, Kansas, the panhandle of Texas, and western Illinois. (Alright, Sioux Falls, southern Minnesota, and Missouri too) The railroads have a large volume, good revenue, long haul opportunity. They just don't see it or know how to exploit it. That's the problem. As far as the CN goes, if a marketing person walked in to his/her boss and proposed going for a relatively short haul where the revenue had to be split with an eastern carrier that would get most of the money, they'd be putting their career in jeopardy. A solution for the vastly underutilized CN lines would be to give the NS trackage rights to Sioux City, Council Bluffs and St. Paul. Then it would be a single carrier long haul move to the east coast population centers.
Interesting idea. You are creative in suggesting ideas for new revenue sources, a quality sadly lacking or not valued in rail management.
Your idea also points out the problems with not consolidating to one or two transnational systems.
greyhoundsYou cannot habituate a farm animal to transport. It stresses them. (dogs are different, they love a ride) A steer will loose 100 pounds in the first 24 hours of transport. If someone has just spent a lot of time, money and effort to put weight on the steer this will drive that person nuts. The solution is to minimize transport of the livestock. That's why the packing houses are near the production areas ...
The solution is to minimize transport of the livestock. That's why the packing houses are near the production areas ...
chutton01 greyhounds You cannot habituate a farm animal to transport. It stresses them. (dogs are different, they love a ride) A steer will loose 100 pounds in the first 24 hours of transport. If someone has just spent a lot of time, money and effort to put weight on the steer this will drive that person nuts. The solution is to minimize transport of the livestock. That's why the packing houses are near the production areas ... I recall reading in Jeff Wilson's Livestock & MeatPacking industry book that railroads back in the day (turn of the 20th century or so) wanted to haul livestock vs. butchered meat parts, as they would make more revenue hauing the whole animal (bones, hide, fat, etc) at premium rates (and they could also bill the shipper for feeding the livestock as well), which is why we still had the beloved of modelers stock cars till the 1960s (yes, yes, a few made it into the 1990s - very few). Companies eventually moved the abattoirs out to the areas where cattle were raised, closed the huge union stock yards in urban areas, and shipped the dressed meat saving money. I suppose by the 1940s/50s the cost of labor made livestock handling for resting, feeding, and watering too much of a hassle for the railroads as well.
greyhounds You cannot habituate a farm animal to transport. It stresses them. (dogs are different, they love a ride) A steer will loose 100 pounds in the first 24 hours of transport. If someone has just spent a lot of time, money and effort to put weight on the steer this will drive that person nuts. The solution is to minimize transport of the livestock. That's why the packing houses are near the production areas ...
I recall reading in Jeff Wilson's Livestock & MeatPacking industry book that railroads back in the day (turn of the 20th century or so) wanted to haul livestock vs. butchered meat parts, as they would make more revenue hauing the whole animal (bones, hide, fat, etc) at premium rates (and they could also bill the shipper for feeding the livestock as well), which is why we still had the beloved of modelers stock cars till the 1960s (yes, yes, a few made it into the 1990s - very few). Companies eventually moved the abattoirs out to the areas where cattle were raised, closed the huge union stock yards in urban areas, and shipped the dressed meat saving money. I suppose by the 1940s/50s the cost of labor made livestock handling for resting, feeding, and watering too much of a hassle for the railroads as well.
I suspect the big change in the market forces was the perfecting of mechanical refrigerator cars.
Icing pre-mechanical refers would not keep temperature suitable for shipping processed meat. The most effective way to ship meat in that era was 'on the hoof'. Since then mechanical refers changed the equation.
In today's world of railroading there are no longer any facilities that would permit the transportation of meat on the hoof - there are no longer any feed, water and rest facilities on any of the Class 1 carriers, let alone the personnel to operate them.
The first couple of years of my stint as Trainmaster (1971-73), the B&O was still handling live hogs to the EssKay meat processors in East Baltimore - a couple of cars a day.
AFAIK, the IC carried a lot of pre-mechaical reefers from Iowa eastward. Not sure when that fizzled out, but greyhounds would know.
charlie hebdoAFAIK, the IC carried a lot of pre-mechanical reefers from Iowa eastward.
Stands to reason ... to Chicago. Would they have distinctive competence in handling reefer traffic over other roads running, say, from Council Bluffs to the Chicago area?
Otherwise I think most of the interesting traffic for IC with reefers might have happened once it turned southward rather than 'eastward', not being interchanged in the Chicago area, IC being predominantly a north-south carrier on a variety of routes. Deggesty might have some interesting historical Memphis notes in this respect.
Yes, I suspect greyhounds would know, and I'd also suspect he knows firsthand about traffic in at least some part of the mechanical-reefer era...
BaltACDI suspect the big change in the market forces was the perfecting of mechanical refrigerator cars.
I believe I once read that it was the reefer (the original, iced version) that killed the East India spice trade.
As the story goes, a primary use for those spices was to cover the taste of rancid butter.
The ability to ship milk, and milk products, over greater distances meant that said use of spices was no longer necessary. The first shipment of butter in an iced reefer was in 1851.
One might argue that had such use been more widespread by 1871 that Mrs. Leary wouldn't have had a cow to kick over the lantern...
The Chicago stockyards burned at least once, a major conflagration. That such yards were located in and near major cities speaks to the need to get the finished meat quickly to market.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
You may be right, but I think the real change started earlier: with the advent of mechanical refrigeration for icemaking (which was well-established by the 1870s). This allowed the making of ice for reefers that could be piled in at 0 degrees F or below, and allow pre-frozen content similarly subcooled to remain in that state, or at least not to reach the 'dangerous range' of temperature for spoilage and other forms of biological danger during the possibly extended transit time.
That wasn't the revolution, though, with 'land-based' refrigeration: that would be in 1925 with the development of 'dry ice', first as a refrigerant actually capable of maintaining deep frozen products in that state, and second as a means to produce controlled atmosphere displacing air. Note that this approach is considerably cheaper than providing and specialty-maintaining mechanical refrigeration rigs on interchange cars in that era, and would certainly serve to maintain frozen meat in priority traffic (there was a network of dry-ice production as early as 1931 specifically organized for railroad demand).
At least some modern cold-transport providers run mechanical refrigeration only to make up some of the heat losses enroute, depending on an initial charge of cryogenic material (like liquid nitrogen) both to cool the car initially and provide most of the sustained internal low temperature of the prefrozen cargo.
Overmod charlie hebdo AFAIK, the IC carried a lot of pre-mechanical reefers from Iowa eastward. Stands to reason ... to Chicago. Would they have distinctive competence in handling reefer traffic over other roads running, say, from Council Bluffs to the Chicago area? Otherwise I think most of the interesting traffic for IC with reefers might have happened once it turned southward rather than 'eastward', not being interchanged in the Chicago area, IC being predominantly a north-south carrier on a variety of routes. Deggesty might have some interesting historical Memphis notes in this respect. Yes, I suspect greyhounds would know, and I'd also suspect he knows firsthand about traffic in at least some part of the mechanical-reefer era...
charlie hebdo AFAIK, the IC carried a lot of pre-mechanical reefers from Iowa eastward.
Iced reefers lasted into the early 70s. They would be reiced as needed. UP had an ice house (now the radio shop) at Council Bluffs. IC had facilities at Waterloo. CNW at Clinton IA. RI at Silvis IL. I'm sure the CBQ, CGW and MILW also had facilities between Chicago and Council Bluffs at one time.
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