daveklepper Regarding my handing the conductor the ticket, goes with my wearing a kippah. If I had done anything like your suggestion, would I not be a hypocrit? You would not make the suggestion to a priest, minister, or rabbi, would you? (Or Imam?
Regarding my handing the conductor the ticket, goes with my wearing a kippah. If I had done anything like your suggestion, would I not be a hypocrit? You would not make the suggestion to a priest, minister, or rabbi, would you? (Or Imam?
Dave, I don't understand what you're referring to.
Who suggested what? ??
(I enjoyed the story of the cab ride, and then giving the conductor the ticket.)
He must be referreing to the special Daniel Webster Budd equipment, A McGinnis effort, because the large fleet of normal NYNH&H Budds were regular ones without any electric propulsion capability. I believe the NH had the second largest fleet, second only to the B&M, which for a number of years ran all its passenger service with them except the Montrealer-Washingtonian, and while it laster, the Ambassador.
Regarding my handing the conductor the ticket, goes with my wearing a kippah. If I had done anything like your suggestion, would I not be a hypocrit? You would not make the suggestion to a priest, minister, or rabbi, would you? (Or Imam?)
Joe, Did the modified Budd Car trains have the standard Budd car controls or did they have something like a standard locomotive throttle system? And how were they to operate? Any thing special to transition from diesel to third railand visa-versa? Did the diesel stay running for airconditioning HVAC and/or lights?
MidlandMikeI noticed a photo of an EP-5. Did they have any unusual running qualities?
They ran on both AC and DC, strong power and they tended to slip a lot.
MidlandMikeI understand that they would overheat in the GCT tunnels. Did they ever pinpoint the problem?
The blowers were modified and that seemed to rectify the problem.
243129I ran everything from the New Haven 'fleet' up to and including the ACELA. Electric,diesel, Turbo Train, through freight,local freight,passenger, yard. Any questions you may have I would be happy to answer.....if I can.
I noticed a photo of an EP-5. Did they have any unusual running qualities? I understand that they would overheat in the GCT tunnels. Did they ever pinpoint the problem?
daveklepperHow did riding qualities and general operation of the E-units znd FL9s comopare?
The E-units provided a far more comfortable ride than the FL-9.
daveklepperAnd considering the view available from a GG-1 engineer's cab, fortunate indeed that there are zero grade crossings Penn - NH!
Yes, but MOW employees on left-hand curves were certainly in jeopardy.
Then, even though the NYNH&H never had E-units, you eventually did get to tun them, afer PC almost immediately after absorbing the NH, transferred the FL-9s to Hudson and Harlem commuter service, eliminating egnine changes at Harmon and White Plains North Stastion, and put GG1s on Penn Station - New Haven and E-7s and E-8s New Haven Boston of both Cental and Penn heritage.
How did riding qualities and general operation of the E-units znd FL9s comopare?
And considering the view available from a GG-1 engineer's cab, fortunate indeed that there are zero grade crossings Penn - NH!
OvermodRussell and Neiss were both PRR engineers but might have gotten into contact with Joe later on, perhaps in Amtrak service between NYC and Philadelphia.
I ran into Penn Sation New York from 1963-2014 so I may have had interaction with them over the years. My home division was the Shoreline Division, Boston to New York, both Grand Central and Penn Stations, Springfield, Worcester, Cape Cod(Hyannis), South Braintree, New Bedford, Holyoke, passenger, through freight, local freight and yard.
New Haven had a couple of interesting 'sharknose' Baldwins, but with hydro kinetic drive for lightweight trains.
Russell and Neiss were both PRR engineers but might have gotten into contact with Joe later on, perhaps in Amtrak service between NYC and Philadelphia.
I think 243129's an old New Haven man, as far as I know the NH never had BP-20's, more popularly known as Baldwin Sharks.
OvermodBe careful here.
Must have been partial memory of something I read.
I'm certainly not an expert of the Santa Fe - the northeastern roads are more my flavor.
Thanks for filling that out.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
BP-20's were the passenger version of the Baldwin Sharknose. They rode on A1A trucks and finished up on the NY&LB.
Overmod'm pretty sure he would know Noel, or Jack Neiss. Perhaps he knew R.J.Russell (who taught me how BP-20s were run in commuter service).
Noel I did know but were the other two fellows New Haven engineers? The names are not familiar. BP-20's? Were they the old MU's with a power car and two trailers?
daveklepper Then you knew my friend and fellow Branford (Shore Line Trolley Mus.) member Noel Weaver, who gave me a GG1 cab ride New Haven - Penn Station. Nothing wrong with the GG1 riding quality! I sat in the fireman's seat. Amtrak had gone to one-man engine crews or perhaps this was done under Penn Central or earlier. He invited me when he saw me photographing the train. After arriving at Penn I went back to the coach to retreave my suitcase in an overhead rack and dutifully handed my ticket to the conductor. Slow orders made us late.
Then you knew my friend and fellow Branford (Shore Line Trolley Mus.) member Noel Weaver, who gave me a GG1 cab ride New Haven - Penn Station. Nothing wrong with the GG1 riding quality! I sat in the fireman's seat. Amtrak had gone to one-man engine crews or perhaps this was done under Penn Central or earlier. He invited me when he saw me photographing the train. After arriving at Penn I went back to the coach to retreave my suitcase in an overhead rack and dutifully handed my ticket to the conductor. Slow orders made us late.
Yes I did know Noel, he was a dozen or so men older than me on the Shoreline roster. Nice fellow, good engineer. While the ride quality of the GG-1 was acceptable, the sight quality without a fireman was 'challenging'.
BTW you should have kept the ticket and cashed it in later.
I'm pretty sure he would know Noel, or Jack Neiss. Perhaps he knew R.J.Russell (who taught me how BP-20s were run in commuter service).
I for one would like to hear any stories regarding the 'older heads' and their approaches both to running trains and to coaching/mentoring younger employees. By far the most fun part of the Mike Bednar videos is when you actually recognize the people in the cab and caboose windows, and know something about them as people and not just 'adjuncts to the train action'.
Thanks! The fact there were United Aircraft techs on board for every trip speaks volumes. I think you said more in one sentence than most others did in paragraphs.
zugmann Lasted 20 years. Must have something going for it.
Lasted 20 years. Must have something going for it.
P.T. Barnum said it best
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann Acela has been around 20 years already. Seems to be working.
Acela has been around 20 years already. Seems to be working.
Get an Amtrak timetable and check the running time against the regionals, which make more stops, and then tell me how successful it is.
I asked for permission to show that an AEM-7 with 6 cars could equal the ACELA running times. They declined.
Flintlock76 OK, how about the Turbo-Train? There's a lot of "Old husbands tales" about that one. I have to call them "old husbands tales" because old wives don't care about these things, or most of them anyway. Likes? Dislikes? How well did it run? Or didn't? Maintanance issues and reliability? Ahead of it's time or a dead-end? And what did you personally think about it?
OK, how about the Turbo-Train? There's a lot of "Old husbands tales" about that one. I have to call them "old husbands tales" because old wives don't care about these things, or most of them anyway.
Likes? Dislikes? How well did it run? Or didn't? Maintanance issues and reliability? Ahead of it's time or a dead-end? And what did you personally think about it?
Similar to the ACELA in that it was glitzy. It had airline style seating, made noise like a jet plane when accelerating from a stop. Not very dependable but there were United Aircraft technical personnel onboard for every trip. Running time not much better than conventional trains due to the fact that you can only travel so fast on the existing ROW. The ACELA will suffer the same fate as the TurboTrain if the government allows it. It was a novelty as were it's predecessors the Daniel Webster, John Quincy Adams and the Roger Williams. They didn't work out, the TurboTrain didn't work out and the ACELA won't work out without a dedicated infrastructure.
More stories! We don't know what to ask -- what do you remember as notable or interesting, for a start...
Flintlock76 Mod-man, now that you mention it I think we'd all like to hear a concise history from Joe of what he ran, when he ran it, and his thoughts about the different locomotives he ran, likes and dislikes, strengths and weaknesses. Nothing like hearing the story from one who was there.
Mod-man, now that you mention it I think we'd all like to hear a concise history from Joe of what he ran, when he ran it, and his thoughts about the different locomotives he ran, likes and dislikes, strengths and weaknesses.
Nothing like hearing the story from one who was there.
I ran everything from the New Haven 'fleet' up to and including the ACELA. Electric,diesel, Turbo Train, through freight,local freight,passenger, yard. Any questions you may have I would be happy to answer.....if I can.
Overmod I'd be highly interested in Joe's accounts of running them, as my understanding was their Flexicoil trucks (lead, too, on all but the prototypes) were not exactly renowned for high-speed stability.
tree68FA's were ALCO's freight cabs, PA's were their passenger cabs. Similarly, the F units were EMD's freight cabs, the E units their passenger cabs.
The New Haven was famous for extensive 'dual-service' dieselization with the predecessor to the PA, the DL-109 series (there are a whole bunch of nit-picky little subdivisions by number, but most railfans recognize the body style by this number) which used a pair of turbocharged 539 'switcher motors' in place of EMD's 12-cylinder Roots-blown 567s to make 2000hp, and needed the same idler-axle trucks to spread the weight of the longer and heavier 'solution' for getting that power in a single unit. It is one of the great shames of preservation that one of these survived all the way into the Seventies in a New Haven yard, used as some kind of special vehicle ... and was then ungloriously cut up.
The wartime and postwar Alco 'push' was to get the required horsepower out of a single V-16 (with a heroic-size turbocharger) and that is what the PA provides, in a carbody shorter than anything with two contemporary 1000hp diesels can manage. It was still heavy, and was still given the idler-axle 'passenger' trucks, though. As noted these had pretty primitive lateral arrangements and had a number of documented 'issues' with making adequate long-term power out of the 16-244 engine Alco did catalogue a 251-engined passenger locomotive (the C636P) but nobody ordered one.
New Haven had no E units, or any reason for them: they were sold the special FL9s with one additional axle (to support the added weight of the electrical gear) and adjusted train length and speed to multiples of that locomotive's power. I'd be highly interested in Joe's accounts of running them, as my understanding was their Flexicoil trucks (lead, too, on all but the prototypes) were not exactly renowned for high-speed stability.
Note that New Haven also experimented with a couple of relative oddball units, including the 10-cylinder FMs that were so heavy they needed their own fifth axle. I suspect those were gone by the time Joe might have been in a position to run them.
tree68Some EMD F's were built with passenger capability (ie, a steam generator), most notably for the Santa Fe, which I don't think ever bought any E's.
Be careful here.
ATSF had many Es, starting with the E1 (Winton 201A-engined) of which there were 8As and 3Bs. (These would be rebuilt into E8ms in the early Fifties, but derated to 2000hp to match the limitations of the reused traction motors)
They had a small roster of E3s (I think bought for a comparison with the Alco DL109 design, similar to what Milwaukee did) and 4E6A/3E6B.
These were principally used in the same areas the 3460 class Hudsons ran, the object being the same high speed. E units had two 12-cylinder motors and generators, and the extra length and weight is the primary reason for the use of the A-1-A trucks. (The Blomberg design was, indeed, better-riding than most B trucks at high speed, but ATSF was notable for knowing how to get high speed out of a two-axle truck, having experimented with idler axles as leaders at one point.)
Meanwhile, unless I am mistaken, none of the later F-unit cabs had steam generators! Nor were there FP7s. This in spite of ATSF relying more and more extensively on steam-ejector air conditioning in warm weather (and continuing reliance on steam heat in winter). So you can guess how hot or cold it may be by the number of Bs in an F-unit consist...
These (FL-9) replaced the PA. The PA's were relegated to freight service and subsequently junked.
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