Trains.com

Poor hiring, vetting, supervision and training procedures.......again?

6764 views
303 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, November 18, 2019 8:57 PM

tree68

 

 
Lithonia Operator
How many isolated systems are there in the US? A handful of narrow-gauge tourist lines? A mining operation or two? It seems that a RR that cannot receive rolling stock and engines by rail has a big full-time headache. Can equipment be brought to certain lines via abandoned lines?

 

I don't know the answer for that - however all it takes to isolate a line is lifting a rail.  Said rail could be replaced to temporarily reconnect to the "system" to move a car in or out.

I know the rail operation at Greenfield Village in Dearborn, MI is exempt, although they are hard by the NS line.  In fact, there is an Amtrak station at Greenfield Village, although I don't know that it's in use right now.

 

I'm not sure that just lifting a rail on a connecting track would be enough to isolate an operation from the national system.  The Boone and Scenic Valley RR did that a few years back.  I forget the reason why, but they temporarily pulled a rail up to try to isolate them from the national network.  One of their full time mechanical/maintenance people said that he didn't think that was enough to isolate them and exempt them from Federal regulations. 

The problem leading to the rail being pulled was eventually resolved and the rail reinstalled.

Jeff 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Monday, November 18, 2019 9:12 PM

jeffhergert
I'm not sure that just lifting a rail on a connecting track would be enough to isolate an operation from the national system.  The Boone and Scenic Valley RR did that a few years back.  I forget the reason why, but they temporarily pulled a rail up to try to isolate them from the national network.  One of their full time mechanical/maintenance people said that he didn't think that was enough to isolate them and exempt them from Federal regulations. 

Indeed - I can't claim to be an expert, by any means.  It's going to be up to the FRA to make that determination, and I'm not the FRA.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    August 2019
  • 260 posts
Posted by Psychot on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 2:50 AM

jeffhergert

 

 
Convicted One

 

 
Murphy Siding
hat culture is prevalent in most all industries now. I can't tell if it's always been that way or if it started out better and has gotten progressively worse.  

 

Perhaps it is a consequence of the predictability that veteran employees tend to think in terms of "there really is no other answer" (eg, "we've ALWAYS done it this way"), while some might prefer to explore other options?

 

 

 

This is a favorite meme of mine.

https://me.me/i/i-have-no-idea-how-to-do-your-job-but-3117529

I think it's because it seems that those who do the work aren't considered by management to be smart enough to breathe on their own, let alone do the work anymore.  I think this line of thinking has become more prevalent as work, especially if it in any way involves physical work, seems to be devalued in our culture.  That if a person was smart and had talent, they wouldn't be working at a 'plain' job.  (Of course it doesn't help that people in general have changed, with many not as 'motivated' at doing their jobs.  This isn't and old vs young thing either.  I've seen young people who were real go getters at their job, older people who weren't.)   

Jeff

 

I think you're right on both counts: blue-collar work is not valued in our society as much as it should be on the one hand, and on the other, a lot of people don't seem to take much pride in their work and do as little as they can to get by. Regarding the latter, I'm amazed that anyone could do something for a living, day in and day out, and be content with doing a half-assed job of it and wallowing in mediocrity. Yet you see it all the time...

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 4,557 posts
Posted by Convicted One on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 3:34 AM

Psychot
Regarding the latter, I'm amazed that anyone could do something for a living, day in and day out, and be content with doing a half-assed job of it and wallowing in mediocrity. Yet you see it all the time...

Perhaps such people simply are not as starstruck over the wonderous opportunities of capitalism, and are just paying their bills?

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 4:05 AM

They (we?)  may have pride, a sense of self-worth through children, hobbies, cooking for friends, charity work, politics, etc.

I feel fortunate that I had work that was interesting and economically sufficieint, plus the railfan hobby and music, but I regret I did not have the pleasure and pride in a family.  So I can understand a person who has all those pleasures and pride but does not derive anything except economic self-sufficiency from his or her work.

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 9:56 AM

For many people,  their jobs are not intrinsically rewarding.  They work to live,  not live to work.  Those folks who really love their work are fortunate. 

  • Member since
    May 2019
  • 1,768 posts
Posted by MMLDelete on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 10:21 AM

In our society there is a great value placed on "loving" one's job. I think a lot of people, when asked, will say, "I love my job," because they think that's what they are supposed to say.

I had a great career as a self-employed commercial/editorial/stock photographer. If I had it to do over, I probably wouldn't change much. But did I "love" my job? No.

I love my wife, sex, our cat, sailing, railfanning, watching IndyCar and Formula 1 on TV, playing/hearing music, good food, good beer, and spending time with good friends.

I think of the people who say they love their jobs, about 80% are exaggerating or just plain lying. I have met very few people who seemed to truly love their jobs.

OTOH, I have known a lot of people who have/had rich full lives, but did not particularly like their jobs. The happiest guy I know was an auditor for the state of New York. He worked hard, saved every dime he could and invested it, and became quite wealthy. On the first day he was eligible to retire he was out the door, and he never looked back.

Despite not loving my job, I got a lot of satisfaction from it, and most of the time I gave it my best effort.

No one should feel they are not complete if they do not love their jobs. There are many different ways to proceed through life.

Regarding railroads (trying to vaguely stay on topic), I'm glad I got to be a railroader for a couple of years. I enjoyed a lot of it. Hated other parts. Was so-so about many aspects. Never "loved" it. But would never trade away having had that experience.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 11:19 AM

I've always preferred to be on a project, as opposed to maintenance.

With a project, there's an end in sight, and the satisfaction of having completed it.

With maintenance you know that you'll be back again, and again, and again.  That's one reason I retired when I did.  The project was over and now I was changing passwords every two months on a system with no outside connection.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    May 2015
  • 1,836 posts
Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 12:36 PM

charlie hebdo

For many people,  their jobs are not intrinsically rewarding.  They work to live,  not live to work.  Those folks who really love their work are fortunate. 

 

In spite of Amtrak and their destructive, dangerous managerial and operating procedures I enjoyed my job. I never lost the esprit de corps that was instilled in me many years ago when the railroad was run by railroaders. Doing my job well gave me a sense of accomplishment and pride. When folks ask if I miss my job I tell them I miss what it was not what it has become.

I still have my first pay stub.

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 1:05 PM

I guess the member who questioned whether you were a railroader now has a sufficient degree of proof that you were. 

  • Member since
    May 2015
  • 1,836 posts
Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 2:17 PM

charlie hebdo

I guess the member who questioned whether you were a railroader now has a sufficient degree of proof that you were. 

 

If you or any of the members here (friend or foe) collect memorabilia such as old pay stubs. I have all my NY NH & H stubs from 1963-1968 (the end) send a SASE and I will send you one.

  • Member since
    May 2019
  • 1,768 posts
Posted by MMLDelete on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 3:33 PM

Makes me want to climb up in the basement and find my ETT.

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 4,557 posts
Posted by Convicted One on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 5:53 PM

I think it is reasonable to expect any employee to be loyal, dedicated, and perform their duties to the best of their abilities. I have little patience for sandbaggers.

But at the same time, I recognize that not everyone is an "A-teamer". I was good enough at what I did that the company I worked for sent me around to it's various offices to help sort out problems at underperfoming locations. And yes, I did derive a sense of pride being that  person.  But success for me was being able to teach the personnel on location how to deal with those problems more effectively, not to fault them for ineptness.  It takes very little talent to find problems and make a spectacle over them.  Finding what is causing the problem for some branch office in timbuktuu and helping them over come it.....is more worth my time than fault finding.

I often felt that the other side of that was,  forever after home office could blame me if such problems persisted....that may well have even been their motive to begin with.   Which was a sterling incentive to me to get the problem fixed in such a way that it stayed fixed, so I wouldn't have to go back.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 6:05 PM

Lithonia Operator
Makes me want to climb up in the basement and find my ETT.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    May 2019
  • 1,768 posts
Posted by MMLDelete on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 8:40 PM

Wow! Thanks, Balt, for linking that! Covered wagons were long gone when I worked for the GARR. Although I have seen photos of a few, I have NEVER seen one in color.

Is that in Atlanta? Great photo.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 8:50 PM

BaltACD
 
Lithonia Operator
Makes me want to climb up in the basement and find my ETT. 

 

Atlanta 1963 according to the source I got the photo from.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    May 2019
  • 1,768 posts
Posted by MMLDelete on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 9:55 PM

I worked there 1972-1974. First in Atlanta Yard, then out in Lithonia. It was all black first-generation EMD Geeps (GP7s mainly), and some SW9 switchers in the yard.

I still have dreams that I go back to work on the railroad. In my dreams it's still the early 70s. And there always guys who are not thrilled to see me come back!

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 1:02 AM

I do love my job, most of the time.  But I've come to the conclusion that I don't love the company.

About 19 years ago, I had a chance to go to work for the Iowa Interstate RR.  I didn't, but for a while afterwards I wondered if I made the right decision.  Those feelings faded.  Now I'm again wondering if I made the right decision back then.

Jeff 

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 5:31 AM

Come to think of it, a lot of my loving the profession of architectural acoustics derived from more than the actual design work, testing, inspecting (sometimes in hazadous or and/or dirty locations), writing reports, doing calculations, eventually with computer help, programming computers, etc, and was also due to:

meeting some wonderful people and making new friendships

train travel to and from job sites and client meetings, with the scenery, find dining-car meals, and the above on the trains

visits to distant family members and friends paid for by travel necessary foro the job, including trips to Israel

On one occasion I was with Richard Horstmann and Lehigh Valley 353 all the way from Portland, OR to New York (his trip originated in Seattle, but I missed the Seattle - Portland portion) returning from two consecutive jobs in Portland, where I also visited my cousin Kenneth Lewis.   Much ealier, a Reading Rail Ramble was included Philadelphia - Harrisburg as part of my travel to Pittsburgh for a project.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 5:41 AM

And getting to hear, and eventually even participate in lots of wonderful music.

  • Member since
    August 2019
  • 260 posts
Posted by Psychot on Thursday, November 21, 2019 3:36 AM

daveklepper

They (we?)  may have pride, a sense of self-worth through children, hobbies, cooking for friends, charity work, politics, etc.

I feel fortunate that I had work that was interesting and economically sufficieint, plus the railfan hobby and music, but I regret I did not have the pleasure and pride in a family.  So I can understand a person who has all those pleasures and pride but does not derive anything except economic self-sufficiency from his or her work.

 

I can understand having sources of pride in one's life other than work - but given that at least a third of each weekday is spent at work, why not be the best you can at it? Pride in a job well done is one of the things I live for, whether it be at my job, doing DYI in my house, or playing sports.

  • Member since
    August 2019
  • 260 posts
Posted by Psychot on Thursday, November 21, 2019 3:39 AM

jeffhergert

I do love my job, most of the time.  But I've come to the conclusion that I don't love the company.

About 19 years ago, I had a chance to go to work for the Iowa Interstate RR.  I didn't, but for a while afterwards I wondered if I made the right decision.  Those feelings faded.  Now I'm again wondering if I made the right decision back then.

Jeff 

 

If you don't mind sharing, what factors caused you to stay with Uncle Pete and not switch over to Iowa Interstate?

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, November 21, 2019 8:00 AM

The people who are faced with one-third of their awake hours devoted to drugery still have a better life than much of the World's population for whom almost all of  awake hours are spent in drugery.  A subsistance farmer in Africa?  A rice-grower in China?  A Yadzi refugee?  A Christian girl torn from her parents by Islamic fundamentalist for prostetution?   A Chinese Christian wife whose husband is in a concentration slave-work camp and is forced to have a child by a Chinese atheist?

At least in the USA and Canada and the UK and Israel it is possible to enjoy the music one wishes, practice and/or view the sports one wants, vote in the hope, sometimes realized, that the person elected will truly represent one, walk the street in relative safety, go to the house of worship that meets one's needs and/or belief system or not go, travel by modes that one can afford, etc.  Lots of places in the world these freedoms don't exist.

 

  • Member since
    May 2019
  • 1,768 posts
Posted by MMLDelete on Thursday, November 21, 2019 12:32 PM

daveklepper

The people who are faced with one-third of their awake hours devoted to drugery still have a better life than much of the World's population for whom almost all of  awake hours are spent in drugery.  A subsistance farmer in Africa?  A rice-grower in China?  A Yadzi refugee?  A Christian girl torn from her parents by Islamic fundamentalist for prostetution?   A Chinese Christian wife whose husband is in a concentration slave-work camp and is forced to have a child by a Chinese atheist?

At least in the USA and Canada and the UK and Israel it is possible to enjoy the music one wishes, practice and/or view the sports one wants, vote in the hope, sometimes realized, that the person elected will truly represent one, walk the street in relative safety, go to the house of worship that meets one's needs and/or belief system or not go, travel by modes that one can afford, etc.  Lots of places in the world these freedoms don't exist.

 

 

 

Amen.

  • Member since
    May 2015
  • 1,836 posts
Posted by 243129 on Thursday, November 21, 2019 3:18 PM

Amen for this thread also.

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, November 21, 2019 3:30 PM

Dave: I'm sure it wasn't meant to be an all-inclusive list,  but there are quite a few other countries that are similar in terms of freedoms. 

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 9,728 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, November 21, 2019 3:51 PM

charlie hebdo

Dave: I'm sure it wasn't meant to be an all-inclusive list,  but there are quite a few other countries that are similar in terms of freedoms. 

 

I'm sure there are, but David had to cut off the list somewhere!

As far as the job is concerned, a manager I had thirty years ago summed it up pretty well, at least as far as I'm concerned...

"Do I love  my job?  Well, I  like  my job.  I think if you like your job you're ahead of the game.  Nobody loves  to work, at least nobody I know!  Wouldn't we all rather be playing than working?"  

Sound reasoning.  At least I liked the job I had the past thirty years!

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, November 21, 2019 4:16 PM

Flintlock76
As far as the job is concerned, a manager I had thirty years ago summed it up pretty well, at least as far as I'm concerned...

"Do I love  my job?  Well, I  like  my job.  I think if you like your job you're ahead of the game.  Nobody loves  to work, at least nobody I know!  Wouldn't we all rather be playing than working?"  

Sound reasoning.  At least I liked the job I had the past thirty years!

The ideal job is doing something and getting paid that you would enjoy doing, even if you didn't get paid.  There are those people and they have those 'jobs'.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, November 21, 2019 4:48 PM

I had a similar experience.  The executive VP at Fields told me (a young clothing buyer) one day,  "Charlie,  ask yourself this. Do you have passion for this? If so,  great.  If not,  you'll do OK but you'll never get to the top and you'll end up with regrets,  like me."  True but sad. 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Thursday, November 21, 2019 5:06 PM

BaltACD
The ideal job is doing something and getting paid that you would enjoy doing, even if you didn't get paid.  There are those people and they have those 'jobs'.

Sometimes, getting paid for it takes the fun out of it.  People expect you to show up and perform on their schedule, not yours.

Knew a woman who divorced her husband, then later moved back in with him, without remarrying.  All the comforts of home, yet either one could walk out if and when they felt like it.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy