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The railroads want to negotiate crew size in the next round of contracts.

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Posted by Euclid on Friday, October 4, 2019 9:44 AM

 

CMStPnP
 
charlie hebdo
Do manned trains operate safely 100% of the time now? Have they ever?  

 

No the difference is of course there is a conscience and morals behind the human decision whereas the machine decision does not have that.  Which in my view makes the machine much less desireable until we are 100% sure it can replicate all aspects and inputs that go into a human decision.   Especially when we are thinking about other human lives as we are in operating a freight train.

Example:  School bus full of kids approaching a grade crossing and driver does not appear to notice approaching train.    Would a machine at the throttle even take notice of that?

 

I don't see what conscience and morals have to do with automatic operation.  Conscience and morals are needed by humans to make sure they make the right decesions.  Wherease automatic machines don't require a conscience and morals to make the right decsions.  They have no choice but to make the right decisions.

I assume that operating “safely 100% of the time” means operating 100% safely 100% of the time.  That is not possible.  But autonomous operation that achieves safer operation than the use of onboard crews performing manual operation is certainly possible and probable; even with today’s technology.  For one thing, just the elimination of fatigue as a factor in train operation is a major increase is safety.

 

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Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, October 4, 2019 9:36 AM

charlie hebdo
Do manned trains operate safely 100% of the time now? Have they ever?  

No the difference is of course there is a conscience and morals behind the human decision whereas the machine decision does not have that.    Which in my view makes the machine much less desireable until we are 100% sure it can replicate all aspects and inputs that go into a human decision.   Especially when we are thinking about other human lives as we are in operating a freight train.

Example:  School bus full of kids approaching a grade crossing and driver does not appear to notice approaching train.    Would a machine at the throttle even take notice of that?    My thinking is it would be like a horse with blinders on.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Friday, October 4, 2019 9:11 AM

CMStPnP

Back on topic though, does this mean that they are trying to get to a one person crew size via industry negotiations?    If so I think that is faster than I expected and I don't think the technology is there yet.   Certainly as someone in IT I don't see how they would operate a no crew train safely 100% of the time.

 

Do manned trains operate safely 100% of the time now? Have they ever?  

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Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, October 4, 2019 9:08 AM

To be fair it is more difficult to lose weight as you get older.   Especially if you have overlapping ailments that flare up as soon as you start to lose weight.  

Back on topic though, does this mean that they are trying to get to a one person crew size via industry negotiations?    If so I think that is faster than I expected and I don't think the technology is there yet.   Certainly as someone in IT I don't see how they would operate a no crew train safely 100% of the time.

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Posted by LensCapOn on Friday, October 4, 2019 7:51 AM

ChuckCobleigh
 
jeffhergert
...the right to negotiate crew size...

 

So I'm assuming that we’re talking crew number, not putting everybody in train service on a diet to cut fuel consumption.Dinner

 

Believe John Allen covered that issue back in 1949 in the model train world. (Some here must know thsi)

 

If this was a REAL issue (snark/ON) all it would take would be smaller cab doors with the warning sign:

"If you can't fit through this door you are too fat to Drive This Train".

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Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Friday, October 4, 2019 12:51 AM

jeffhergert
...the right to negotiate crew size...

So I'm assuming that we’re talking crew number, not putting everybody in train service on a diet to cut fuel consumption.Dinner

(Shouldn't have mentioned that; I don’t want to give anybody any more cockeyed ideas than they've already come up with.)

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Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, October 3, 2019 3:33 PM
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The railroads want to negotiate crew size in the next round of contracts.
Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, October 3, 2019 3:27 PM

I haven't seen anything to link too, yet.  There was an announcement that the National Railway Labor Conference* is suing the Smart-TD (trainmen's union) in Federal Court to affirm the right to negotiate crew size in the next round of contract talks that has or soon will be starting.

*Even though the name sounds like it represents the various labor organizations, it's actually a railroad industry group.

I believe there is a moratorium on crew consist issues until the last pre-1985 conductor is gone.  There aren't many left around my neck of the woods, but those that remain must not be leaving fast enough.

The industry is citing the new safety technology has a factor in redefining the role of conductor on certain trains.

Jeff

 

 

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