Hi, I don't recall seeing anything about how railroads deal with ice on rails, or if that is even a problem. How do they handle it?
Thanks, WIRailfan
Ice on the railhead is usually not a problem, unless perhaps if it is on an industrial track, it is very thick, and an empty car is being shoved; a locomotive will usually not be affected in that scenario.
However, ice formed in the flangeways, especially at grade crossings, is a problem. On lightly-used tracks crossing a busy road, each vehicle packs the snow more, and ice buildup is a real concern.
During winter, Metra has one train for each subdivision turned such that it leads locomotive-first in to the city. This is done so that the relatively lightweight cabcars are not leading over the crossings for the first trip in the morning. The first train from McHenry and the first train between Kenosha and Waukegan are turned. There are no trains on the McHenry sub after the last outbound the night before, and on the Kenosha sub there is only the occasional coal train or wayfreight.
Ice (and hard-packed snow) are also of great concern in yards and other places switch operation can be impaired or complete closure of the points is blocked.
Sweeping snow away doesn't necessarily help the packing problem. And one great Union Pacific experiment using a FEF for 'steam melting' of ice on complicated trackwork foundered when the condensate from the steam proved perfectly effective at causing a range of ice problems once the boiler had passed to another location...
"Ice on Rails" sounds like a good band name! (to go completely off topic.)
LensCapOn "Ice on Rails" sounds like a good band name! (to go completely off topic.)
On the other hand, "Rails on Ice" sounds like something the "Ice Capades" might have come up with.
Flintlock76 LensCapOn "Ice on Rails" sounds like a good band name! (to go completely off topic.) On the other hand, "Rails on Ice" sounds like something the "Ice Capades" might have come up with.
They should do a revival of Andrew Lloyd Webber's "Starlight Express"!
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
zardoz Ice on the railhead is usually not a problem, unless perhaps if it is on an industrial track, it is very thick, and an empty car is being shoved; a locomotive will usually not be affected in that scenario. However, ice formed in the flangeways, especially at grade crossings, is a problem. On lightly-used tracks crossing a busy road, each vehicle packs the snow more, and ice buildup is a real concern. During winter, Metra has one train for each subdivision turned such that it leads locomotive-first in to the city. This is done so that the relatively lightweight cabcars are not leading over the crossings for the first trip in the morning. The first train from McHenry and the first train between Kenosha and Waukegan are turned. There are no trains on the McHenry sub after the last outbound the night before, and on the Kenosha sub there is only the occasional coal train or wayfreight.
Thanks for that, I've often wondered how push-pull commuter operations dealt with this.
On industrial spurs we run the locomotive through iced-up crossings first to clear them out. Still have to be careful though, on a few occasions we have had loaded cars or even a locomotive derailed by ice/mud/dirt buildup in flangeways.
One of the worst spots I can think of isn't even at a crossing, it is a remote location where the track runs through a deep cut that is obviously below the water table. Even in winter the springs continue to flow, and the track can become buried under what appears to be a small glacier.
NDG Ice Scarifier. Some Spreaders were fitted with adjustable Ice cutting teeth which were raised and lowered by compressed air to fracture packed snow and ice on tracks. Example. http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_rolling/402851.jpg http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_rolling/one.htm In Montreal certain streetcars had a similar device behind the rear truck to scarify RoW to keep flangeways clear and protect Traction Motor housings from damage. In winter streetcars would be operated all night to keep line open, along with plows and sweepers. Sleet cutters would be applied to trolley poles to cut sleet from trolley wire. Here the trolleys would be left up to operate car heaters and lights, a major power consumer in winter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSTgr4kqoPA FWIW. Tramways Sweeper. Single Track. 1938. https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3928/32992516126_e01904b1dc_b.jpg Track laid to one side of road in anticipation of future Double Track. Never done. Converted to Autobus June 1953. Thank You.
I remember reading in the magazine some years ago that Iowa Traction parks their freight motors on top of switches in the winter, leaving them energized with the trolley pole(s) up. Apparently this was cheaper than propane/gas/kerosene fired switch heaters.
Dude, you reminded me of my trip home my first Christmas in college. On the direct route from Bristol to Asheville, the highway crossed throguh Sam's Gap--where a spring came out of the mountaide (very good cold water, well worth stopping for a drink), and the water then went through a pipe under the road--except on cold nights in the winter, and then it spread over the highway. I had caught a ride with a gypsy truck driver, and he watched for ice on the road, and would carefully change lanes (two lane highway), and he did well until he came up behind a truck line truck, the driver of which had not shifted to avoid the ice, and my kind driver could not get around him. As it was, someone in a car came along, and my truck driver asked the driver to take me on in to Asheville.--and I was able to sleep in a warm bed that night.
Back to ice on rails.
The old highway still crosses through Sam's Gap--but the output from the spring is entirely buried--when a new highway (without all the hairpins) was constructed apparently was when the stream was buried under the old highway.
Johnny
SD70Dude Flintlock76 LensCapOn "Ice on Rails" sounds like a good band name! (to go completely off topic.) On the other hand, "Rails on Ice" sounds like something the "Ice Capades" might have come up with. They should do a revival of Andrew Lloyd Webber's "Starlight Express"!
Hey, there you go! "Starlight Express on Ice!" Good-guy steam engine versus bad-guy diesel! I can dig it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-xDkApRVUY
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I would call that a tire chain, but that wheelset doesn't have tires....
Doesn't appear to be a driven wheel, so the chains would not help.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Coming this Fall on "History Channel" it's Ice Track Railroaders.
Semper Vaporo Doesn't appear to be a driven wheel, so the chains would not help.
Not to mention that traditional clasp brakes would be useless, as well...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I'm relieved to see someone remembers tire chains besides me!
tree68 Semper Vaporo Doesn't appear to be a driven wheel, so the chains would not help. Not to mention that traditional clasp brakes would be useless, as well...
Since the desire is to use ABS on ice and ABS tends to 'pump the brakes' the brake shoes would intermittenly apply only to the area of the wheels where the chains are not in place - timing of this should not be difficult at all especially when ECP is implemented.
You would be amazed how well tire chains do help on undriven axles on trailers in snow and ice in the mountains when they are required according to my drivers that have been over Donner in the winter. They keep the vechile tracking straight prevent them from sliding in the corners and stop jackknifes from happening. CA minimum required chains over Donner are a set of singles on the drives and set of singles on the trailer. Max chains are double railers on the front drives single set on the rear drives and a set on the trailer.
Shadow the Cats ownerYou would be amazed how well tire chains do help on undriven axles on trailers in snow and ice in the mountains when they are required according to my drivers that have been over Donner in the winter. They keep the vechile tracking straight prevent them from sliding in the corners and stop jackknifes from happening. CA minimum required chains over Donner are a set of singles on the drives and set of singles on the trailer. Max chains are double railers on the front drives single set on the rear drives and a set on the trailer.
Nothing on the Steer's?
I just asked my husband he spent 4 years going over Donner in the winter. Only one time ever did he ever have to chain the Steer axle that was Thanksgiving Eve in 97 when the El Nino was in full effect and blasting Donner with a massive storm that was at the peak dumping 3 feet a hour on the summit. He was in the last group over the summit that night. Yes they closed I80 due to the weather on a Holiday weekend. He says he was plowing snow with his bumper that night at the top of the pass. It was his 2nd trip ever over Donner with chains and he was leading a group of 50 mixed cars and trucks over as the plow they were supposed to be following over broke down. He got them over and down safe. When the weather gets nasty I let him drive.
Not to de-rail this, but here's a good one...
A woman was driving in a blinding snowstorm, and totally bewildered. Then she saw a snow plow. Remebering what she learned as a young driver she pulled behind it and started to follow it.
This went on for a while, then the plow driver got out and walked back to her car.
"M'am, why are you following me?"
"Oh, when I was a girl and my father was teaching me how to drive he told me if I was ever in a snowstorm to get behind a snow plow, it's safer that way."
"OK," said the driver, "That makes sense. Listen, when I'm done plowing this Wal-Mart lot do you want to follow me over to Target?"
Sorry.
Flintlock76Not to de-rail this, but here's a good one...
Kinda like the new USAF wife who followed the "Follow Me" truck onto the flightline...
In case everyone hasn't gotten it yet, it's a Photoshop gag.
BTW, on trucks, there are comparatively few cases where chains are desirable on steer axles, namely when the road surface consists of heavy snowpack or unplowed snow, where the chains fully 'bite' into the surface and never contact anything hard, like sheet ice, on which they would slide. Their function then is like a combination of heavy tread and 'studs' to keep horizontal steering integrity workable.
This is an extension of the idea of using chains on undriven trailer wheels to keep them laterally in line whether in 'draft or buff' and when wind or grade pushes against the trailer. Again, you'd only want the chains in adequate thickness of snow remaining even after the truck's weight came on it.
OvermodIn case everyone hasn't gotten it yet, it's a Photoshop gag.
I'm sure everyone has seen the image of the fire department hose ramps placed on a rail line...
tree68 Overmod In case everyone hasn't gotten it yet, it's a Photoshop gag. I'm sure everyone has seen the image of the fire department hose ramps placed on a rail line...
Overmod In case everyone hasn't gotten it yet, it's a Photoshop gag.
As a kid, I recall a Pittsburgh TV station that on their lead in to the new casts had a clip in their opening montage showed a B&O passenger train operating at speed along one of the rivers and cutting through 4 or 5 fire hoses at full pressure that had been stretched across the tracks. Water show!
tree68I'm sure everyone has seen the image of the fire department hose ramps placed on a rail line...
... remembering that such an approach was very real for many traction, and probably some interurban, operations. There were arched bridge sections for each rail, probably with some cross-bracing, that would be mounted up and across the hose.
It wouldn't be impossible to achieve much the same effect for heavy rail, except that the 'ramps' involved would be at least of the length involved in those roll-up devices on maintenance-of-way flats, and storing and deploying them would be a logistical problem of significant importance (compared to suspending or diverting trains from a given stretch)
OvermodIt wouldn't be impossible to achieve much the same effect for heavy rail,
As infrequently as incidents requiring hose to be laid across the track occur around here, and with the minimal rail traffic, we'd probably just ask the RR to hold traffic for a little while, or find a convenient culvert if it was going to be a long-term operation.
For those who haven't seen the the hose ramp image, I believe it was in Holland, and they were plastic...
And I've heard it was intentional - for laughs...
tree68For those who haven't seen the the hose ramp image, I believe it was in Holland, and they were plastic... And I've heard it was intentional - for laughs...
Belgium, I thought. And they're the kind of ramp used for vehicular crossing of hoselines, which is really what made the joke so funny: it's just what firemen in Chelm would think of as a brilliant solution. (Not nearly as funny post-Megantic, but that's just me)
Oh look! Here's an article on it, with the pictures:
https://www.businessinsider.com/heres-how-this-fake-photo-went-viral-and-tricked-the-internet-2014-5
Note that the line was known to be closed for an extended period ... so 'expect a train on any track at any time' could be reasonably subject to suspension of disbelief...
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