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Posted by steve-in-kville on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 8:13 AM
I've been seeing a lot of tanker car trains lately, both denatured alcohol and crude oil. There is always a hopper car at the beginning and the end. I'm guessing this is for safety/protection? Are they loaded with anything?

Regards - Steve

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, November 18, 2019 8:29 AM

steve-in-kville
And its always after I leave my hunting spot! Its back to back and even double! One going east, another going west!

Watching the Deshler cam right now, there are two trains turning south.  There's been more than one occasion of another "crossing the T" on the double track the other two are turning off.  If the third track south of Deshler wasn't tied up with a B/O car, it wouldn't be unusual to have a train on that, too...

Or, you can sit there for hours with no trains at all...

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Posted by steve-in-kville on Monday, November 18, 2019 7:30 AM
And its always after I leave my hunting spot! Its back to back and even double! One going east, another going west!

Regards - Steve

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, November 18, 2019 7:21 AM

steve-in-kville
Perhaps this is my imaginations, but it appears the past few nights the NS mainline goes silent for a few hours, usually after midnight to about 6am. Just a coincidence?

That's not unusual.  I see it at Utica on the CSX Chicago Line, and when I'm watching the cam at Deshler.  

There's a lot of variables - what time a unit train is released to the railroad, what time the run-through train arrives, what time the yard crew has a manifest ready to go, perhaps even whether there are crews available.  

Of course, the flip side to that is when the trains are running "bumper to bumper," if you will.  A train-watcher's paradise.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by steve-in-kville on Monday, November 18, 2019 6:38 AM
Perhaps this is my imaginations, but it appears the past few nights the NS mainline goes silent for a few hours, usually after midnight to about 6am. Just a coincidence?

Regards - Steve

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Posted by clipperw on Tuesday, November 12, 2019 8:37 AM

Overmod
Note that before a consist is put into service, the direction for each unit has to be carefully set to "forward" or "reverse" depending on which way it is pointing -- you may have noticed a little "F" painted on one end; this signifies 'front' for MU setting purposes.  Once that is done all the locomotives happily pull together.

 Note that before a consist is put into service, the direction for each unit has to be carefully set to "forward" or "reverse" depending on which way it is pointing -- you may have noticed a little "F" painted on one end; this signifies 'front' for MU setting purposes.  Once that is done all the locomotives happily pull together.

There is no careful setting of the reverser when coupling a consist of locomotives together. In fact, on trailing locomotives in a consist, the reverser is "centered" or in nuetral position and the reverser handle is removed so that it can't be accidentally placed in forward or reverse. The direction of all the locomotives is controlled from the lead locomotive's reverser handle. This is accomplished through the 27 wire multiple unit (MU) jumper cable between each locomotive. The no. 8 and 9 wires control direction and they are crossed within each locomotive so that the electrical signal sets the reverse contactor in the correct direction no matter which end of the locomotive is facing forward. A diesel locomotive works equally well in either direction. The "F" designation on the front corner of the locomotive has nothing to do with actual operation. The "F" designation was mandated originally by the ICC and later, by the FRA which requires that one end of the locomotive be designated at the front. This requirement originally developed when non cab "B" units were introduced in the late 1930s. It is mainly used for consistancy in reporting locomotive maintenance issues so everyone can be talking about the same component. For instance, the traction motors are numbered 1 - 4, 6, or 8 starting from the "F" end. Norfolk and Western, Southern Railway, later merged as Norfolk Southern, operated their lead locomotives with the long hood forward. On those locomotives, the "F" was on the long hood end of the unit, not the cab end. 

 

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Saturday, November 9, 2019 3:16 PM
 

steve-in-kville
Tried googling this and the results are as clear as mud.... do modern EMD's and GE's use different brands of airhorns? If they use the same, do they perhaps sound different between the two brands? Or is it my imagination again?
 

 

Nathan Airchime owned by Micro-Precision Group is the prominent producer of chimes now.. Leslie use to be very popular decades ago. Yet I haven't heard a new Leslie horn in sometime. The current Locomotive builders such as Progress Rail prefers the K5LLA. While Wabtec the K5HL. K=Kettle Drum, 5=No. of Bells, L=Low Manifold, L=Low Pitch, A=American tuned

With the K5HL. The H stands for high manifold

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Manufacturing

http://microprecisiongroup.com/nathan-airchime

http://www.lesliecontrols.com/

https://trn.trains.com/railroads/abcs-of-railroading/2018/01/all-about-air-horns

http://www.dieselairhorns.com/collection.html

http://atsf.railfan.net/airhorns/

Hopefully this info answers your question..

 

 
 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by Overmod on Friday, November 8, 2019 12:30 PM

rdamon
When we replaced shield wire with OPGW (Optical Ground Wire) which is cable with tubes of fiber inside. We approached it as line replacement.

If anyone is familiar with 'Williams' they will know what the two rings in the company emblem meant.  They found it expedient to string their backbone cabling inside natural-gas pipeline infrastructure (adjusting pigs, etc. to work with it or around it) and I can't imagine any contract with railroads involving what else a company added to the inside of its conduit or pipe, so long as doing so did not add risk of accident to the railroad subgrade or disturb its stability during work.

Another prospective question: with the rise of directional drilling, is there any limit on effective depth below grade (or measured from top-of-rail) on a directional crossing penetration, as far as contractual language is concerned?  Any trend in recent negotiation to recognize this for new contracts?  And if a conduit rather than merely cable is strung through a directionally-drilled penetration, do new cables pulled through it require explicit higher payments?                     

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Posted by rdamon on Friday, November 8, 2019 12:21 PM

When we replaced shield wire with OPGW (Optical Ground Wire) which is cable with tubes of fiber inside. We approached it as line replacement. If we had to add another cable to and existing rail crossing it would be subject to a new crossing permit.

I am sure the RR could go audit all the crossings and find quite a few un-permitted crossings by other carriers.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, November 8, 2019 6:57 AM

Electroliner 1935

Back in the 70's, worked with an electric utility and needed to add a fiber optic cable across the Soo line in Wheeling Il. There was an existing 12 kV feeder crossing that would support the cable but the RR wanted big $ for the modification of the agreement. What a pain. They seemed to take lessons from the NIMBYs in how to make one grovel to get what is needed.

 
Hardly related to NIMBYism.  The utility obviously needed the easement badly and SOO held the high cards in this situation: "How badly do you need this easement and what will you pay for it?".
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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, November 7, 2019 9:46 PM

tree68
As I recall, Southern Pacific had rather extensive "off-railroad" property holdings as well.

Today's Sprint is the outgrowth of the Southern Pacific Railroads communications network

https://www.npr.org/2012/10/15/162963607/sprint-born-from-railroad-telephone-businesses

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Thursday, November 7, 2019 4:39 PM

Back in the 70's, worked with an electric utility and needed to add a fiber optic cable across the Soo line in Wheeling Il. There was an existing 12 kV feeder crossing that would support the cable but the RR wanted big $ for the modification of the agreement. What a pain. They seemed to take lessons from the NIMBYs in how to make one grovel to get what is needed.

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, November 7, 2019 1:53 PM

As I recall, Southern Pacific had rather extensive "off-railroad" property holdings as well.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, November 7, 2019 1:50 PM

steve-in-kville
What does the "real estate department" of a railroad do? In charge of leasing land for more track?

The Real Estate Department for Class 1's is in charge of managing the all the real estate holdings of the carrier - real estate that the tracks are on, real estate that the companies buildings are on, real estate that the company holds or purchases for potential new facilities, real estate that the company holds for potential industrial development, real estate that the company may lease for its operations.  The real estate department is also involved the documentation of any thing that crosses railroad property - and property is much more than just the tracks.  There are numerous things that cross railroad property among them - electric lines, telephone lines, cable TV lines, road crossings, sewer crossings, water crossings, other railroads and any other thing that affects railroad property.  The real estate department keeps the records and where necessary bills the rents for everything involved with the real estate that defines the company's footprint.

I am certain that there are a number of things that I have overlooked and mudchicken who is involved in this kind of work on a daily basis can fill in.

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Posted by MMLDelete on Thursday, November 7, 2019 1:50 PM

steve-in-kville
What does the "real estate department" of a railroad do? In charge of leasing land for more track?
 

I believe a lot of what they do is buy land trackside, then try to re-sell that land to industries that want rail service. Also, I think they develop rail-served industrial parks themselves.

In addition, think of railroads after they abandon a line. They have lots of real estate to sell off.

Others here will know better than I do, though.

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Posted by steve-in-kville on Thursday, November 7, 2019 1:06 PM
What does the "real estate department" of a railroad do? In charge of leasing land for more track?

Regards - Steve

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, November 5, 2019 11:26 AM

The uses of DTMF on the railroad are many.  Perhaps the most common is calling up the dispatcher - if you're listening in an area where there is regular need to speak with the DS, you'll hear a lot of them.  

The codes are usually two or three DTMF digits transmitted by the mobile (loco), followed by an acknowledging tone from the base radio.  That will also notify the DS (on a computer screen, with a light, etc) that someone is trying to contact them.

We use a repeater with a phone patch.  One set of DTMF tones opens up the phone line, then we can use some shortcut tones to automatically (speed dial) certain numbers, or can actually dial a number on the radio keypad.  Pizza delivery, anyone?

DTMF tones can also be used to do things like align switches.

Tone paging systems, such as those used to alert fire stations, use a similar technology, but not usually DTMF, although the tones are pretty standard across the communications industry.

The iconic tones heard on the show "Emergency" are an example of that.

 

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
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Come ride the rails with me!
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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, November 5, 2019 6:18 AM

steve-in-kville
When are the DTMF tones used? And why?

They represent a method of representing both decimal and hexadecimal (base 16, computer numbers, 4 binary digits in one) in a relatively unambiguous way that is very easy to transmit and recover even in noisy environments.  That is part of why it was developed for telephone switching; you can send routing and switching information right over the same limited-bandwidth connection that's cost-effective for telephone voice.

The Japanese built telephones that actually contained buttons (labeled, helpfully, A,B,C, and D) that represented the four tone combinations that are 'missing' from a standard AT&T-style keyboard.  You may not have thought about this, but in order to get the "O for Operator" (and zero) and the two special 'control' characters (star and 'octothorpe' pound) you need a minimum 4x4 tone matrix; why not use that capability, since you've paid for it, to encode hexadecimal intelligence when you want to send it directly?

You'd use two-tone codes any time you wanted to send 'numerical' information over an audio carrier with a minimum of error.  More modern approaches, of course, can use the more complex and wonderful modulations involved in audio modems (modulator-demodulators, to those raised in a world of magic broadband), some of which had to be concerned with balancing asymmetrical AC current across a wire to keep charge from accumulating at one end.  But DTMF was, and is, perhaps the best way for a human to unambiguously send a number or numerical code across radio.

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Posted by steve-in-kville on Tuesday, November 5, 2019 5:33 AM
When are the DTMF tones used? And why?

Regards - Steve

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Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, October 31, 2019 4:10 PM

BaltACD

 

 
steve-in-kville
Another question... why do I hear engineers calling dispatch to report their Trip Optimizer failed so often? Are they untested technology?

 

The engineers want the failure recorded on a recorded line so they have a defense if the 'wifi weasels' looked a the engine's consists download and see that the engineer is not following the 'Trip Optimizers' suggested moves.

All radio conversations between the Train Dispatcher and anyone they talk to on any of the radio channels are recorded.

 

When we first got the energy managment systems, first LEADER and then Trip Optimizer in my area, we were to report any failures or glitches.  At first you called the dispatcher, who put in a ticket to the help desk.  Later you could tone them up direct.  Finally, and still in effect, any problems or failures are just to be filled out on a computer form when you tie-up.

It's the same with PTC.  At first, you reported problems or failures through the dispatcher.  They would submit a ticket and if the help desk didn't respond in 15 minutes, the dispatcher could authorize running without PTC.  Then they changed it to problems on the main track or a siding would be reported through the dispatcher, in a yard you could dial the help desk up direct.  (Same help desk, but they don't really care about EMS problems now.)  Now, there are some conditions that the dispatcher can authorize cutting out PTC, others the help desk still needs to authorize.  Other minor glitches or problems are to be reported upon tie-up without having to contact anyone.

Jeff

 

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:31 PM

tree68
I believe the notes for Canadian horns are/were set by Canadian law.  

They are, and the D-minor chord they're supposed to sound is as distinctive as Canadian law intended for it to be.  The actual notes, of course, change with the Doppler shift, but that somewhat mournful chord is effective at getting attention.

I'm surprised that no American railroad, at least to my knowledge, has adopted Canadian tuning for its strictly domestic new power.

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, October 31, 2019 11:16 AM

Overmod
Of course, EMD in the latter Berkshire Partners years got the idea, perhaps from KCS, that having a really loud horn with dissonant notes in the chord would get better attention from motorists, trespassers, and other potential miscreants within a three-mile radius of the moving engine.  Those are fairly unmistakeable...

I believe the notes for Canadian horns are/were set by Canadian law.  

LarryWhistling
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Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, October 31, 2019 11:07 AM

There may be differences in the horns or horn tuning applied to different series of units as built; I'm not a 'horn guy' but there are people with this specific interest 'out there'.

Once the locomotives are in service, different horns may be applied to them, or environment, maintenance, etc. may change the notes they sound or how well the various bells 'speak'.  If you're on a line with some 'back and forth' traffic, you may begin to associate particular horns with particular units, just as people said they did with steam whistles (cf. The Situation in Flushing).

Of course, EMD in the latter Berkshire Partners years got the idea, perhaps from KCS, that having a really loud horn with dissonant notes in the chord would get better attention from motorists, trespassers, and other potential miscreants within a three-mile radius of the moving engine.  Those are fairly unmistakeable...

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, October 31, 2019 10:54 AM

steve-in-kville
Another question... why do I hear engineers calling dispatch to report their Trip Optimizer failed so often? Are they untested technology?

The engineers want the failure recorded on a recorded line so they have a defense if the 'wifi weasels' looked a the engine's consists download and see that the engineer is not following the 'Trip Optimizers' suggested moves.

All radio conversations between the Train Dispatcher and anyone they talk to on any of the radio channels are recorded.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by steve-in-kville on Thursday, October 31, 2019 9:28 AM
Another question... why do I hear engineers calling dispatch to report their Trip Optimizer failed so often? Are they untested technology?

Regards - Steve

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Posted by steve-in-kville on Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:51 AM
Reason I ask, is the NS GE's sound like a deeper tone that the EMD's. Like I said, it could be all in my head, too.

Regards - Steve

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Posted by samfp1943 on Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:24 AM

steve-in-kville

Tried googling this and the results are as clear as mud.... do modern EMD's and GE's use different brands of airhorns? If they use the same, do they perhaps sound different between the two brands? Or is it my imagination again?

Steve:   For some 'armchair' Horn listening:  Try You Tube.com  Search "Train Horns for a start!

Herte is a link to get you started:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK5mM8hXGfc    Steam, but what the heck!  Whistling

OR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuJPVhtQFeQ 

  here is some UP 4014 Smile, Wink & Grin

OR:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvozb_WM7XY

   Then there is 4449 Laugh

and plenty of diesels to hear as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO1VvuqDkBI

 

 

 

 


 

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Posted by rdamon on Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:24 AM

I remember being able to tell the difference between BN and MP on the MP line I lived near in KC.

I am sure the mergers, lease units and purchasing departments looking for the best deal have changed things.

 

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:00 AM

It's not so much the manufacturer of the locomotive as it is the buyer, who frequently specifies a certain brand and model of horn.

That said - horns get switched around.  The horn fails on a locomotive, it gets replaced with what's available.  They all have the same mount.

And...  Horns may change for a number of reasons.  A five chime changes into a three chime if two bells fail.  And individual bells may change pitch.

It can also matter which way the bells face.

Watching the Deshler railcam (50+ trains per day) gets one lots of exposure to the myriad variations in horns.  Some are pleasant, some are mellow, and some hurt your ears.

I'm not in the camp that can identify horns in any way, shape, or form.  Some can.

For a number of samples, try this site:  http://www.dieselairhorns.com/sounds.html

 

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by steve-in-kville on Wednesday, October 30, 2019 10:32 AM
Tried googling this and the results are as clear as mud.... do modern EMD's and GE's use different brands of airhorns? If they use the same, do they perhaps sound different between the two brands? Or is it my imagination again?

Regards - Steve

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