https://www.autoblog.com/2019/07/23/electric-ford-f-150-tows-1-million-pounds/
10 auto-rack/ multi-level cars - first empty, then loaded with 42 F-150s.
It's late for me tonight, so I'll leave it to someone else to work out the math for the rolling resistance of those cars, the tractive effort of the truck that would be needed, and what the factor of adhesion might be for the truck. Assume the track is level.
Reminds me of the ad when the four women pulled the Timken roller-bearing equipped "Four Aces" Northern steam locomotive - see the photo about halfway down this page:
https://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/timken-1111-trials-on-the-nyc-circa-1930.121136/
It later became NP 2626, see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timken_1111
See also this link here, 3rd post from the top has a photo of NYC 6001:
http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/740/t/115937.aspx?sortorder=desc
- PDN.
Betting big on Ford. Typically when a member of the Ford Family becomes directly involved in a project such as the Electric Program and the Michigan Central Station rehab.......good things happen with the company. I think they are going to out compete GM with their electric trucks.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Paul_D_North_Jr https://www.autoblog.com/2019/07/23/electric-ford-f-150-tows-1-million-pounds/ 10 auto-rack/ multi-level cars - first empty, then loaded with 42 F-150s. It's late for me tonight, so I'll leave it to someone else to work out the math for the rolling resistance of those cars, the tractive effort of the truck that would be needed, and what the factor of adhesion might be for the truck. Assume the track is level.... - PDN.
It's late for me tonight, so I'll leave it to someone else to work out the math for the rolling resistance of those cars, the tractive effort of the truck that would be needed, and what the factor of adhesion might be for the truck. Assume the track is level....
If Ford can do that climbing Sand Patch - they might have something.
CMStPnP Betting big on Ford. Typically when a member of the Ford Family becomes directly involved in a project such as the Electric Program and the Michigan Central Station rehab.......good things happen with the company. I think they are going to out compete GM with their electric trucks.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
There's publicity of women pulling a Niagara, too. (I suspect the piston rings and packing were not in full contact)
A Ford commercial from the late '60s or early '70s had a station wagon pulling three hi-cube boxcars, without particular problem. This is really not that surprising, especially at low speed. Cue the Toyota stunt pulling the Space Shuttle.
I'd think the only major issue with starting the 10 cars, empty or loaded, would be ensuring traction, either with weight in the bed or some Trackmobile-style leverage down on the hitch as the pull is started. (Also perhaps some curling-style attention to railhead cleanliness and, perhaps, some careful use of TOR lubricant...)
I would not be concerned with starting or pulling the train cars, but once at the finish line, I think I'd get out of the truck as quick as a bunny before the 10 auto-carriers crushed it!
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Murphy Siding Like that one time, when Edsel Ford got involved?
Like that one time, when Edsel Ford got involved?
Edsel Ford began the modernization of the Ford Motor Company in time for the production demands of WW2. Unfortunately, he died in 1941 before he could see the completion of his work.
He obviously had nothing to do with his namesake car, which was primarily a marketing disaster.
I've heard it said that you can move a fairly large train on level track with a five horsepower Briggs and Stratton. You can't move it very fast, but you can move it.
As mentioned, all you need is sufficient traction, plus proper gear reduction.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
"Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world."
Archimedes
https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/archimedes_101761
tree68I've heard it said that you can move a fairly large train on level track with a five horsepower Briggs and Stratton. You can't move it very fast, but you can move it. As mentioned, all you need is sufficient traction, plus proper gear reduction.
I once watched a 600 HP SW-1 move 84 loads of cement from the Clark Avenue Yard in Cleveland to a customers location known as Willow - about 5 miles from the yard - took the crew 4 hours to get there though.
It's the acceleration that's the critical part -- very important to maintain it at just the constant rate, perhaps an inch per second per second or less, that keeps traction maximized without slipping. As previously noted, there is a corollary for braking that most people forget... and conventional antilock-brake systems are the wrong answer.
If I'm not mistaken, 4 knots in the carrier Intrepid is 250hp, what a good bass-boat engine will produce. Of course you'd need a comparatively large (and infinitely variable-pitch) prop to get the ship up to that 'balancing speed' without a calendar...
Overmod It's the acceleration that's the critical part -- very important to maintain it at just the constant rate, perhaps an inch per second per second or less, that keeps traction maximized without slipping. As previously noted, there is a corollary for braking that most people forget... and conventional antilock-brake systems are the wrong answer. If I'm not mistaken, 4 knots in the carrier Intrepid is 250hp, what a good bass-boat engine will produce. Of course you'd need a comparatively large (and infinitely variable-pitch) prop to get the ship up to that 'balancing speed' without a calendar...
Ye Olde roadmasters 3/4 ton pick-em-up-truck towed cars frequently at derailment sites or areas around a switch so we could fix track. No big deal, but somebody was manning the railcar brakes.
I would want to have a good handle on the transmission and how it is engagable to the power plant. Imagine the heat produced by a typical automotive clutch trying to lift a train of rolling stock. I would think a 20 hp power plant (electric or gas/diesel) would have no trouble getting one or two ore cars underway, but the clutching mechanism would have to be quite robust.
selector would want to have a good handle on the transmission and how it is engagable to the power plant. Imagine the heat produced by a typical automotive clutch trying to lift a train of rolling stock.
In general -- there might not be a clutch at all; the 'first best' salable option in a truck would be a good torque converter setup with VERY good and positive heat exchangers (probably equipped with separate electric fans as found in good diesel pushers or diesel light trucks equipped for heavy trailering.)
These implicitly have TCCs, in the case of some Allisons on all forward speeds, but these only engage when there is no detected mutual slip (and can more importantly be held out of engagement as desired). Presumably the converter(s) would have a stall speed matched to desired engine hp and torque curves, and the clutches would be under some computer/genetic-algorithmic control.
An alternative might be a multiplate wet clutch, but as noted these throw away a great deal of engine output that a TC multiplies into torque. I'd be more inclined to use a magnetorheological clutch (which is fluid-modulated as quickly as needed via either electromagnets or a 'magnetic chuck' kind of arrangement) backed up with an arrangement like a TCC that locks direct drive when shaft-speed match and engine torque curve permit.
There is also the approach taken in the Bowes drive, which becomes attractive if you have, as Ford does here, a substantially parallel-electric-hybrid or BEV. This has the signal advantage of involving no friction media whatsoever, in fact no need for 'shiftable-under-load' metal-to-metal contact over a wide range of output speed, and can benefit from many of the improvements made in traction-motor construction and control over the past couple of decades.
I suspect that what Ford actually has is an inverter-fed three-phase traction motor, with no formal 'clutch' required: the motor can be controlled to have high torque at essentially near-locked-rotor conditions with pretty absolute speed control and inherent protection against excessive slipping without having to use the truck brakes for 'traction control'. Even with copper rather than aluminum armature bars (or other high-temperature equivalent) and good active cooling, I think I'd still want some speed-matching gears for an automotive-size motor in an application like this.
mudchicken Overmod It's the acceleration that's the critical part -- very important to maintain it at just the constant rate, perhaps an inch per second per second or less, that keeps traction maximized without slipping. As previously noted, there is a corollary for braking that most people forget... and conventional antilock-brake systems are the wrong answer. If I'm not mistaken, 4 knots in the carrier Intrepid is 250hp, what a good bass-boat engine will produce. Of course you'd need a comparatively large (and infinitely variable-pitch) prop to get the ship up to that 'balancing speed' without a calendar... I don't think that would happen with friction bearings, Ye Olde roadmasters 3/4 ton pick-em-up-truck towed cars frequently at derailment sites or areas around a switch so we could fix track. No big deal, but somebody was manning the railcar brakes.
I don't think that would happen with friction bearings,
More of a demonstration of roller bearings and steel wheels on steel rails.
Jeff
tree68Briggs and Stratton.
One of my favorite brands for power lawn mowers and line trimmers. Won't buy anything else. Those little engines last forever if you care for them.
So what I am wondering and I cannot tell from the video. Did they start the train from slack in or slack out? Anyone here that can tell that?
CMStPnPSo what I am wondering and I cannot tell from the video. Did they start the train from slack in or slack out? Anyone here that can tell that?
Hard to tell, but at 2:09, it def'n looks like the slack is bunched.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
jeffhergertMore of a demonstration of roller bearings and steel wheels on steel rails.
And yeah, I'd sure as hell ensure the slack was as bunched as I could get it before starting the cameras rolling. Starting one car at a time, perhaps with progressive gain in momentum, HAS to be much easier than trying to yank a large percentage of the string at one time. Give me one of those 'new' trucks with 1000 nominal hp and 35,000lb towing capacity and I'd bet I could indeed start 'em with plain bearings, getting each one up on the lube-film wedges by the time the next one needs to be hydrodynamically levitated...
Semper Vaporo I would not be concerned with starting or pulling the train cars, but once at the finish line, I think I'd get out of the truck as quick as a bunny before the 10 auto-carriers crushed it!
Would have been even more impressive had they put another truck on the rear to be used to slow the 'train' using the truck's regenerative braking (dynamics).
Geez. Nobody "Davised" this? You all waiting on me?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Owners Manual:
Trailer towing - with class IV hitch:
F150 3.5L V6 Ecoboost 6000#
F150 3.0L diesel 7000#
F150 5.0L V8 8000#
F150 electric 1,250,000# (do not exceed 5mph)
oltmannd You all waiting on me?
Patiently.
Yeesh. For what I get paid....
I get about 2100# TE needed to haul 625 tons over 10 cars at 5 mph.
If that F150 weighs 4000 lbs with 60% of the weight on the rear axle (probably where the batteries are...) and tires gripping at 90% adhesion you get 2160# pulling force.
Pretty close to the limit.
Didn’t Charles Atlas pull a streamlined observation car?
I recall David P. Morgan writing that the contact area steel wheel to rail is the size of a dime.
Murphy Siding CMStPnP Betting big on Ford. Typically when a member of the Ford Family becomes directly involved in a project such as the Electric Program and the Michigan Central Station rehab.......good things happen with the company. I think they are going to out compete GM with their electric trucks. Like that one time, when Edsel Ford got involved?
Actually Edsel Ford passed away long before FORD named a car after him that simply missed the style mark. Otherwise it was just like any other FORD, a well built car.
When Edsel Ford was helping run the company, he gave us the 1928 thru 1931 Model A, a car that sold almost 5 million copies dispite a depression.......
Ford builds more trucks in a month for US consumption than TOYOTA builds all year. GM and RAM each only build about two thirds of FORD's numbers.
There is a reason....
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALThere is a reason....
I figure it's because they have to be replaced more often...
oltmannd I get about 2100# TE needed to haul 625 tons over 10 cars at 5 mph. If that F150 weighs 4000 lbs with 60% of the weight on the rear axle (probably where the batteries are...) and tires gripping at 90% adhesion you get 2160# pulling force.
I suspect the electric F-150 may weigh a bit more than that and wouldn't be surprised if it was 4WD. Virtually all electric vehicle motors are some sort of polyphase induction or synchronous motor. I also suspect that a low speeds (i.e. when accelerating from a stop), the motor runs in some sort of torque control that will operate right up to the adhesion limits.
A 3/4 ton 4WD pickup with automatic transmission and running in low range would not have much difficulty in duplicating this stunt.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.