Euclid RailRoader608 asked this question the title of this thread: "Does Class 1 management have a good relationship with the railroad unions?". I would say the answer is no. They have opposing interests. That is their "relationship."
RailRoader608 asked this question the title of this thread:
"Does Class 1 management have a good relationship with the railroad unions?".
I would say the answer is no. They have opposing interests. That is their "relationship."
Johnny
Company cultures eminate from the top. And if the top respects their employees, it works to the benefit of all. If the top thinks most of the "trash" are sluffing off or ripping them off they try to impose draconian efforts to "shape up" the "trash. I am constantly reminded of the Rodney King's plea, "CAN'T WE JUST GET ALONG"
When I worked with union electricians doing work on electronic equipment, they were supposed to do any phyical wiring work. I was new in power substations and many had been there for twenty years or more. But they wanted to learn what the equipment did and why things needed to be done in specific ways and I took the time to explain and teach them and they appreciated it. They taught me many things I didn't know and I was glad to learn why they did things the waay they did. They kept me safe and working with high voltage equipment that was important. I never had any one file a claim against me, They learned that if I needed "union" work done after hours, I would get them called to do it. Also, they knew I might use a screw driver and lift a wire without calling them. Another engineer (electrical, not locomotive) would ask the union worker to carry his test equipment as if it was his duty. He requested in a commanding voice. Union electrician was suddenly too busy to do it. That engineer also on another occasion had a complaint lodged against him.
Almost all people want to be respected and appreciated for what they do and when upper management doesn't it costs the company and it hurt the worker moral. Union contracts came into being to try to codify work rules that have been needed to make management provide what they have agreed to and limit what management may try to expect a worker to do. It is a shame that people need all the "fine print" to make them treat people properly.
CShaveRR Sorry to hear that, but know it doesn't (or didn't) apply to all dispatchers. But I can vouch that I received several paychecks well after I retired, due to claims that were finally fully processed.
Sorry to hear that, but know it doesn't (or didn't) apply to all dispatchers. But I can vouch that I received several paychecks well after I retired, due to claims that were finally fully processed.
No, it doesn't apply to all dispatchers. Like anything else, it takes time to learn how things 'work'. The new dispatchers, just turned loose on their own, sometimes don't make the best decisions. That's just part of the learning process. Those that just look at it like a stepping stone either really don't get (or try to get) the hang of it or once they do, they move out to other management assignments.
I guess I should clarify the "train trash" comment. The comment was overheard by a dispatcher, but the others involved were from other departments within the headquarters building.
Jeff
cx500 Murphy Siding Does that have anything to do with Class 1 railroads and their relationship with railroad unions? Not directly, but very illustrative of two solitudes working for the same company, whether it be railroad, trucking, or any other industry with blue and white collar workers. The result is a lack of respect in both directions and poor relations.
Murphy Siding Does that have anything to do with Class 1 railroads and their relationship with railroad unions?
Not directly, but very illustrative of two solitudes working for the same company, whether it be railroad, trucking, or any other industry with blue and white collar workers. The result is a lack of respect in both directions and poor relations.
It goes to show that sometimes the people in the ivory towers need to be reminded especially in the transportation business just who is out there everyday on the front lines are the ones that generate the revenue that pays for everything.
Murphy SidingDoes that have anything to do with Class 1 railroads and their relationship with railroad unions?
Shadow the Cats owner My husband tells stories of how office workers used to call the OTR drivers road trash at one larger carrier he worked for. Boss there did not belive him at first so he carried in a mini tape recorder one day. He busted 3 load planners calling him road trash when he walked into the office and then went down to the CEO's office and said this is what the people that plan our loads think of the people that pay their wages think of us. The CEO immediatly walked upstairs told those 3 people to go home grab 3 weeks worth of clothes and get into a truck with their so called Road Trash and see what they actually did. The worst behaving one was sent with my husband and after 1 week she was begging to come home saying that my husbands job was way to hard and she missed her comforts of home and such. Needless to say after 3 weeks of his running almost 11K miles in that time her attitude changed and when she was returned all the while getting her normal pay for her job she was salaried so no overtime she stopped with the road trash talk. She had her eyes opened big time. His boss made it a new policy after hearing that all office personal had to spend 2 weeks a year out on the road with a driver. Guess what happened to the negative treatment of the drivers in the office it quit faster than a blink of an eye and driver turnover dropped by 80% at this carrier. I luckily don't have to do that here at my job. Why my boss knows if I get out of control all my boss has to due is call my hubby and say straighten her out please. The rest of the office is getting ready for the rotating week long trips with their drivers each one spends a week with a van then a tanker puller in the fleet. Oh the fun they have in that time frame and the complaints I get from the drivers about the habits of the office workers slowing down my drivers.
My husband tells stories of how office workers used to call the OTR drivers road trash at one larger carrier he worked for. Boss there did not belive him at first so he carried in a mini tape recorder one day. He busted 3 load planners calling him road trash when he walked into the office and then went down to the CEO's office and said this is what the people that plan our loads think of the people that pay their wages think of us. The CEO immediatly walked upstairs told those 3 people to go home grab 3 weeks worth of clothes and get into a truck with their so called Road Trash and see what they actually did. The worst behaving one was sent with my husband and after 1 week she was begging to come home saying that my husbands job was way to hard and she missed her comforts of home and such. Needless to say after 3 weeks of his running almost 11K miles in that time her attitude changed and when she was returned all the while getting her normal pay for her job she was salaried so no overtime she stopped with the road trash talk. She had her eyes opened big time.
His boss made it a new policy after hearing that all office personal had to spend 2 weeks a year out on the road with a driver. Guess what happened to the negative treatment of the drivers in the office it quit faster than a blink of an eye and driver turnover dropped by 80% at this carrier. I luckily don't have to do that here at my job. Why my boss knows if I get out of control all my boss has to due is call my hubby and say straighten her out please. The rest of the office is getting ready for the rotating week long trips with their drivers each one spends a week with a van then a tanker puller in the fleet. Oh the fun they have in that time frame and the complaints I get from the drivers about the habits of the office workers slowing down my drivers.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Jeff, reading about your yard work reminded me of a brief conversatin I had with a Southern road engineman in Charlotte, N.C., in the early fifties. Back then, when the SB Peach Queen came in in the morning, both ends were worked--Pullmans were taken off the rear and storage mail cars came off the front end. The engineman told me that they were allowed to make one switching move to set the storage mail out, and if they made more moves they were given extra pay.
I know, different roads, different rules..
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Run-around claims, where you're first out on the board and they use someone behind you, good for 4 hrs pay, used to be paid right away. Not anymore for us. Lately they have to be processed through the appeals process.
Others are extensive wait for a room at the away from home lodging facility. I waited for 90 minutes a few weeks ago. My denial had on it to turn in the claim to my local chairman (something that should be done anyway) for resolve at a later conference. That's unusual wording for a denial.
For road crews coming into a terminal with a switch engine on duty to put you're train away, they are supposed to yard you on a track that will hold you're train. Failing that, you are allowed to "double" those cars of your train that won't fit on other tracks. The idea is for the road crew to put away their train in the least amount of moves.
What is done sometimes (OK, most of the time at my home terminal) is to yard you on a track and then start saying, "Yard on track X, cut here and place them to track Y, then cut here place them to track Z." All while the yard engine stopped in the clear watches. Now none of the tracks are usually filled once done. Some of the tracks (Y and Z) may even have cars on them that you are told to tie into. That's called yard switching and is a claim for 8 hours at yard rates for the road crews.
There are some others. All are penalty claims for the carrier violating the contract they agreed to. All former arbitrary payment claims, like connecting air hoses where a carman is on duty, or the engine holding onto cars when going from the train to yard to make a pick-up, are gone. Either not available to those hired after 1985 and/or bought out in later contracts to those hired before 1985.
Even some things that would once have rated a penalty claim have been changed by agreements. On some (maybe all?) roads where they've gone to hourly pay rates instead of miliage based, my example of road crews doing switching is not a penalty. The inbound crew can yard their train in any manner instructed, and use any remaining HOS time to switch cars, do air tests, etc.
The appeals process can take years. Some claims get lumped together with other similar claims from all employees, others may get individual attention. Every so often, the union and carrier meet to resolve those claims. The carrier may offer to settle these claims at something less then their face value. Say 50 to 75 cents on the dollar. If the union agrees, the railroad pays off the claims. If they can't agree, they go to arbitration. (For those claims being handled individually, they will ask the claimant if they are willing to take what the railroad is offering. I had a run-through home terminal claim that they offered to pay at about 4/5ths of the claim submitted. I took it.) Arbitration is a gamble. Those who serve as arbitrators are agreed to by both carrier and union. Those who seem to give more one sided deciscions may not be agreed to be used in the future by the other side.
While I'm under no illusion of what management thinks of their employees, the denying of claims is just them trying to save themselves money. What illustrates what those in management/management support at the higher levels is this. One of our conductors transferred over to become a dispatcher. A dispatcher is management on our railroad. (One Director said he thought a dispatcher's job is only an entry level job to management. And that attitude shows sometimes.) This guy had a conference in the headquarters building. He was having lunch in the building's cafeteria. (Open by the way to anyone, railroad employee or not, downtown.) He kept hearing people at a neighboring table talking about, "train trash." He finally asked them what they were talking about. The answer was that "train trash" meant those who worked the trains. He did ask them if they realized that those working the trains were the ones that provided the service customers pay us for. I never heard if they gave a response.
Train Trash
SFbrkmn please offer some details of the clains being disputed. Most of us have no idea of the details of the Agreement between the unions and RRs.
No. Claims submitted, that are good, are constantly declined. The workforce has to fight, scratch and claw just to get paid correctly. This creates yet more 'us vs. them' culture. Many claims get paid but that is through a process that can take months and even yrs in some cases. Right now I have 8 RO claims just this yr and all have been declined and then forwarded to the local chairman. Two from last yr were paid a couple halfs ago. A constant cat and mouse game. gets old but now is the norm. Young guys have to be alert or $$$ can be lost in wages
I haven't read much about the relationship between labor and management but I know most railroad employees are union. Would be curious to hear stories.
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