Trains.com

Chatterbox Spring 2019

20928 views
313 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Sunday, June 9, 2019 3:31 PM

Lithonia Operator
So, with having at least seven cars, that means that the front of the train will clean off enough rust that then at least the latter part of the train will short the circuit?

That, or the sum of the less-than-optimal contacts will make for enough electrical contact to do the necessary shunt.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    May 2019
  • 1,768 posts
Posted by MMLDelete on Sunday, June 9, 2019 3:25 PM

tree68

 

 
Lithonia Operator
mudchicken, I appreciate the response. But could you expand on this a bit? Is this related to signals? I’m just not a technical guy. Any further explanation would be greatly appreciated.

 

I'm not MC, but here goes:  

Railroad signals (crossing and block) work buy introducing a small electrical current to the rails.  If there is no train, there is nothing to close the circuit, so no train is detected, resulting in no crossing equipment activation, etc.

Under normal circumstances, when a train is present "on the circuit," the uninsulated steel wheels close (shorts) the circuit and all is well.  Crossing protection is activated, block signals display per the expected, etc.

If the rails are rusty, there may not be enough contact between the rails and the wheels to provide that short and the train may not be detected.  This could result in a train arriving at a crossing without the protection of gates and lights, which could have dire results.

Of course, the operation of signals is a good deal more complicated, involving coded signals sent to the rails, possible Doppler detection (through the rails) of a train's direction and speed, and even information sent to the locomotives via the rails (cab signals) among other things.

 

Thanks, tree. So, with having at least seven cars, that means that the front of the train will clean off enough rust that then at least the latter part of the train will short the circuit?

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Sunday, June 9, 2019 3:14 PM

Lithonia Operator
mudchicken, I appreciate the response. But could you expand on this a bit? Is this related to signals? I’m just not a technical guy. Any further explanation would be greatly appreciated.

I'm not MC, but here goes:  

Railroad signals (crossing and block) work buy introducing a small electrical current to the rails.  If there is no train, there is nothing to close the circuit, so no train is detected, resulting in no crossing equipment activation, etc.

Under normal circumstances, when a train is present "on the circuit," the uninsulated steel wheels close (shorts) the circuit and all is well.  Crossing protection is activated, block signals display per the expected, etc.

If the rails are rusty, there may not be enough contact between the rails and the wheels to provide that short and the train may not be detected.  This could result in a train arriving at a crossing without the protection of gates and lights, which could have dire results.

Of course, the operation of signals is a good deal more complicated, involving coded signals sent to the rails, possible Doppler detection (through the rails) of a train's direction and speed, and even information sent to the locomotives via the rails (cab signals) among other things.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    May 2019
  • 1,768 posts
Posted by MMLDelete on Sunday, June 9, 2019 1:59 PM

mudchicken

LO: Effective electrical shunt on even rusty track to run at speed. (and enough noise for pneumonic motion detectors to not be tuned out 

mudchicken, I appreciate the response. But could you expand on this a bit? Is this related to signals? I’m just not a technical guy. Any further explanation would be greatly appreciated.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Sunday, June 9, 2019 4:41 AM

Lithonia Operator

Very early in this thread, there was reference to CN and UP requiring a minimum of seven cars on Amtrak trains.

What is that all about? What would be the reason for that?

We start each season dealing with "rusty rail conditions," and must approach each signalled crossing prepared to stop and flag.  Of course, our rail sits all winter with zero traffic.  Once it's polished a bit, things get back to normal.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • 1,447 posts
Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Saturday, June 8, 2019 10:02 PM

Oh I had to laugh today at something I had come across my desk. A driver in California no less was caught hauling a hazmat load without a valid CDL no medical card and no logbook. The kicker is he was pulling a brokered load for guess which mega carrier. Here's a hint they are normally white trucks with SWIFT on the trailer. His CDL was expired since 95 his medical card since 93 his truck was older than California allows into the state that's why he was picked for the inspection. Swift is going well his Dot number was good. FMCSA people I know are going time to really see what those people in Phoenix are using. Swift might be so screwed with this one that even their insurance and self insurance gets revocked. 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
  • 10,820 posts
Posted by mudchicken on Saturday, June 8, 2019 9:41 PM

LO: Effective electrical shunt on even rusty track to run at speed. (and enough noise for pneumonic motion detectors to not be tuned out)

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
  • Member since
    May 2019
  • 1,768 posts
Posted by MMLDelete on Saturday, June 8, 2019 6:36 PM

Very early in this thread, there was reference to CN and UP requiring a minimum of seven cars on Amtrak trains.

What is that all about? What would be the reason for that?

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Defiance Ohio
  • 13,319 posts
Posted by JoeKoh on Saturday, June 8, 2019 5:17 PM

evening

Went out and walked on the new trail in town.It's all planked down above the swamp and woods.Saw 2 trains on Csx after the walk and ice cream stop.Farmers are out and about trying to get some crops in.Guessers say rain tomorrow.

stay safe

Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Burlington, WI
  • 1,418 posts
Posted by rvos1979 on Saturday, June 8, 2019 4:12 PM

I wonder if Farmer's will cover that one.........

Randy Vos

"Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings

"May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, June 8, 2019 6:48 AM

tree68

And, on top of that, the driver apparently left the scene, presumably on foot.

 
And thereby redefining "hit and run".
The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Friday, June 7, 2019 10:48 PM

And, on top of that, the driver apparently left the scene, presumably on foot.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Defiance Ohio
  • 13,319 posts
Posted by JoeKoh on Friday, June 7, 2019 5:37 PM

Sorry

The Suv was left on the tracks.When the train derailed it did knock down the power poles.Friend did go to Swanton and show how close the containers came to taking out a house.Reroutes are on csx as well.Long weekend for clean up for NS.

 

stay safe

Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Defiance Ohio
  • 13,319 posts
Posted by JoeKoh on Friday, June 7, 2019 3:15 PM

afternoon

Ns had a mess from last night in Swanton.Lady crashed into a power pole then the SUV went onto the railroad tracks.The Ns train went into emergency and hit the Suv causing cars to derail.It was an intermodal train with some mini propane tankers in the consist.Ns is using the wabash route to detour trains.There is a coal train in the siding at work.The driver has been indentified but not found as of yet.Matt has to do dishes tonight.Chores to do here as well.

stay safe

Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Defiance Ohio
  • 13,319 posts
Posted by JoeKoh on Thursday, June 6, 2019 4:24 PM

evening

Ns was clear when I left work.Getting things around for Matt's party next Saturday.Article in the paper said the bridge project date was being pushed back.Might have other bridges to fix too after all the rain that we have had.Glad tomorrow is Friday.

stay safe

Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Thursday, June 6, 2019 9:53 AM

I was listening to the programming on "Those Were The Days" last Saturday, with all of the earliest announcements of the invasion.  The first news came from German reports, and it took a few hours for the Allies to confirm it.  I know my dad served, but don't know where he was on D Day.  This was truly the turning point.  Given today's political climate (sorry!), it's somewhat bittersweet.

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, June 6, 2019 7:14 AM

75 years ago today, Dad flew three missions with the 306th BG (8th AF) in support of Operation Overlord.  May we all remember their service.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Defiance Ohio
  • 13,319 posts
Posted by JoeKoh on Wednesday, June 5, 2019 6:40 PM

evening

Day 2 with Pen Pal went ok.He had to hold up for an accident on his way over.Went to Toledo.Wanted to get an Ann Arbor unit but it was still up by the shop.We went by Hallett tower then went to Vickers.Had a storm come by.Ns also had problems with the bridge across the maumee river too.Friend is going back to his hotel  tonight then off to Chicago land.Back to work tomorrow.

stay safe

Joe

 

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, June 5, 2019 7:07 AM

M/W crew was out at the east end of Landers yesterday replacing rail just east of the CSX crossing at Forest Hill.  My ride home went past on a slow order and it was interesting to see how welded rail is replaced.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, June 4, 2019 10:20 PM

blue streak 1
Update"  Evidently some one in signaling goofed.  NEW Lower heads are now changed to 2 light heads from 1 light. Still turned aside. Could be is set up to give an advanced approach when the heads are finally activated? 

So, there's a four lamp head over the two lamp head?  That does sound unusual.  From what I've seen, the top head will generally be the simpler of the set - sometimes only showing a red lamp, meaning all aspects are at no faster than medium speed.

The southwest transfer at Deshler (for north-to-west traffic) has three heads.  The top is a single lamp, red.  The middle is a two lamp, with red and either amber or lunar (hard to tell on the webcam), and the bottom has three - red, amber, green.  If the middle head has amber, the best aspect the signal can display is a medium approach.  Usually you'll see a slow clear (red, red, green).

I'd have to dig through some signal charts to see what the possibilities are for what you are describing.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Defiance Ohio
  • 13,319 posts
Posted by JoeKoh on Tuesday, June 4, 2019 10:01 PM

good evening

Went to see pen pal today.Had some surprises.First was watching x 237 use the wyes to turn around in Deshler.(lead unit was bad) Second surprise was 2 gets of loram grinders going westbound on Ns near Leipsic(old nkp line). Third was the conrail heritage unit on 218 in Marion.Fourth was a CIT switcher on an Ns train going to Columbus.Fifth was a surprise friend at Marion.He had an appointment to keep but he could watch 1 more train before he left.Tomorrow we'll see what we can.

stay safe

Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Defiance Ohio
  • 13,319 posts
Posted by JoeKoh on Monday, June 3, 2019 2:41 PM

afternoon

Ns has a coal train in the siding at work.Hopefully friend made it to Findlay ok.Going to go see what we can find tomorrow.

stay safe

Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, June 2, 2019 5:54 PM

blue streak 1
Update"  Evidently some one in signaling goofed.  NEW Lower heads are now changed to 2 light heads from 1 light. Still turned aside. Could be is set up to give an advanced approach when the heads are finally activated? 

It will take a Signal Suspension to activate the new signals.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, June 2, 2019 11:04 AM

blue streak 1

CSX has started what may be some strange signaling around here.  CSX here has had the usual siding exit signals at siding CPs. == The main line that leads to the single track at both ends of siding has a 4 light signal head with green/yellow/ red/ white.  The signaled siding exits both ends to the single track has a single head continous red head and below the same 4 light green/ yellow/ red/ white as the main line..  

Now CSX just installed single light heads below the 4 light signal head  for the main track which at present is turned away so have no idea what color this light will be or if it will be continous lit as the other heads.  This arrangement is at both ends of the siding. 

Any ideas?  PTC possibly although PTC is fully operation AFAIK.?   Also we now have some DPU trains usually 2 x 1 x 0

.Note the exit luna is a restricting aspect that only illuminates when there is a leading train clearring the CP and a following train will be going the same direction then W changes to Y once the end of leading train clears next block signal.

Another note:  CP displays for siding entrance signals has a G/Y/R head then Y/R head then G/R/L head.  The L is for restricting speed for either the main or siding occupancy.  

Update"  Evidently some one in signaling goofed.  NEW Lower heads are now changed to 2 light heads from 1 light. Still turned aside. Could be is set up to give an advanced approach when the heads are finally activated? 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Defiance Ohio
  • 13,319 posts
Posted by JoeKoh on Sunday, June 2, 2019 8:39 AM

Morning

No damage here at our place.Plenty of water around.Csx and Ns were giving slow orders for high water.Local twp needs to look at our road.Mother nature washed the berm away on the bottom of a hill.Csx sent a westbound intermodal that was 14k and had 2 mid train dpus.Then 350 came west and he was 700+ axles and 11000k long.He had a mid train dpu.Hope everyone has a good day.

stay safe

Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Defiance Ohio
  • 13,319 posts
Posted by JoeKoh on Saturday, June 1, 2019 1:18 PM

afternoon

The swamp has been mowed!!! Finished the rest of our yard too.Was out this morning watching Csx.The sent a w207 westbound.It had sand hoppers and a unit coal train as well.They were trying to fit between hire road and West Stanley.The were in the crossovers by 5 or 6 cars.Also heard CSX's hot shot ups train q 010 was having PTC issues.Going to relax.Matt has to do dishes tonight.

stay safe

Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Defiance Ohio
  • 13,319 posts
Posted by JoeKoh on Friday, May 31, 2019 5:15 PM

evening

Ns had some cars uptown when I left work.Came home and waited around FC to see if CSX would send something by.Heard the dispatcher talk to a coal train.Wanted to know why he came on the Garrett sub with only 2 hours left to work.He was coming from Columbus going to Chicago.Crew said they had to wait to get out of Columbus and wait for 2 eastbounds at Deshler.Swamp is getting better.Might be able to mow the whole yard Monday.Chores to do here.

stay safe

Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Friday, May 31, 2019 9:45 AM

The sun is out here again today - and there's nothing on the radar.  Hopefully things will hang on for tomorrow, as we have an outdoor gathering of hams planned as a send-off for one that's headed to Alaska (military family - and the wife just passed her amateur license test, too!)

Looks like I'm on the railroad Sunday.  Hope it's dry then, too.

No problems mowing my yard - no low spots to stay damp.  Lots of folks do have that problem, though, resulting in jungles...

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Friday, May 31, 2019 8:42 AM

I needed yesterday for a mood-brightener.  Pat knew it, too, so we managed to arrange a shopping trip she needed that somehow miraculously included a trip to Rochelle.  Nothing spectacular seen, but I'll be busy with the sightings this morning.

I'll have to stay home today for some yard work, once the lawn dries out a little more.  I still can't mow it, but I'm hoping we can get hold of the neighbors.  I'll rake. 

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, May 31, 2019 7:00 AM

Will wonders never cease!!!  After the rain let up yesterday morning, it didn't rain the rest of the day and today is also supposed to be dry.  Saturday may be a different story.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy