beaulieu,
I believe this video is taken while driving eastward along the track. The video encounters a lot of wreck debris strewn out along the track before it reaches the stopped passenger train. So, I assume that this wreckage is behind the train as it was heading eastbound; and the first end of the train that is encountered in the video is the trailing or west end. Then after passing by the train, the video reaches the head end facing east, and there is considerable impact damage to that end. There is also trailer debris lodged in that end of the train.
https://globalnews.ca/video/4807320/six-killed-16-injured-in-denmark-train-accident
The news about the trailer connection failing seems to say that they inspected several of these connections on other trains and found the pins to be loose. Although they offer no clear explanation of what type of failure the loose pins would indicate. Maybe the connectors need adjustment, repair, or redesign.
Euclid I think it is possible that the wind effects caused by meeting the passenger train may have pulled the trailer into the fouling zone of the passenger train. Or the trailer was already riding in the fouling zone of the passenger train. I think the latter is most likely because the very front of the passenger train was heavily damaged and impaled with wreckage from the trailer.
I think it is possible that the wind effects caused by meeting the passenger train may have pulled the trailer into the fouling zone of the passenger train. Or the trailer was already riding in the fouling zone of the passenger train. I think the latter is most likely because the very front of the passenger train was heavily damaged and impaled with wreckage from the trailer.
If that is the case then the trailer was tilted in the upwind direction, certainly possible if the wind is gusting. One question I have is if the damaged nose shown in the photo is the front or the rear, as both ends are identical so that the aerodynamics are the same when moving in either direction, as the train is never turned.
I would like to see the mechanical principles of the flatcar-trailer connectors in a drawing or photos. Can someone provide a link to that information? It would be very interesting to understand exactly how this connector mechanism failed since inspection has shown that the problem is systemic.
The trailer is attached to the railcar in exactly the same way as it is to any truck cab, with a flanged kingpin. A likely problem area is that I don't believe that European Intermodal requires reinforced kingpin installations, unlike in North America. In Europe because of the much shorter train lengths and the tighter coupling system, slack action is much less. I think it is entirely possible if the windspeed was high enough that the kingpin could have been ripped completely out of the floor of the trailer.
beaulieuIt is also possible that the trailer was leaning to the south away from the passenger train when the passenger train blocked the wind causing the trailer to rock back towards the passenger train and hitting it...
If by 'leaning to the south' you mean physically canted on its suspension due to wind force, the forces involved might be considered a bit more carefully. There would have been a momentary augmentation of the wind force against the trailer as the DMU first passed it, then a partial vacuum between the two trains in addition to the cessation of direct wind pressure. So there may have been both shock and a rocking couple developed against the trailer which might have moved its rear laterally (if not tied down fully) as well as tilting part of its structure into contact with the DMU. I'd think even slight contact at a rear corner would tend to 'pool cue' the trailer into pivoting around its hitch or nose attach point, driving the bogie end against and into the train and likely causing the bogie to detach and 'roll up' between the trains as the report of a loose wheel earlier would indicate.
Euclid Here is a video taken from the road alongside of the track, heading west. The video focuses to the south where it follows the railroad as the driver follows the road. The westbound passenger train is on the right hand track nearest the road. The freight train was heading east on the track furthest from the camera. First in the video, the wreckage of the trailer is encountered strewn along the track. Note that most of the wreckage lies between the two mainline tracks. Next, the video encounters the passenger train standing westbound on the northern or right side mainline track. As the video completes passing the passenger train, it comes to the head end of the train and shows the damage to the lead locomotive. The damage to the passenger train is not seen in this video because it is on the opposite side of the train.
Here is a video taken from the road alongside of the track, heading west. The video focuses to the south where it follows the railroad as the driver follows the road. The westbound passenger train is on the right hand track nearest the road. The freight train was heading east on the track furthest from the camera.
First in the video, the wreckage of the trailer is encountered strewn along the track. Note that most of the wreckage lies between the two mainline tracks.
Next, the video encounters the passenger train standing westbound on the northern or right side mainline track. As the video completes passing the passenger train, it comes to the head end of the train and shows the damage to the lead locomotive. The damage to the passenger train is not seen in this video because it is on the opposite side of the train.
You have the train directions reversed, the passenger train was headed east and the freight was headed west. The passenger train consist of 2 4-car IC4 DMUs coupled together, no locomotives on the passenger train. The coupler pockets are open on the trailing cab car but there does seem to be damage on the end. It is also possible that the trailer was leaning to the south away from the passenger train when the passenger train blocked the wind causing the trailer to rock back towards the passenger train and hitting it causing the lightly built trailer to break apart. In Europe as in North America trailers are secured by their Kingpins, plus the wheels being down in a pocket below the side sills. What strength there is in the curtain side trailers is in the deck, the roof only supports itself and the curtains.
BaltACD The bigger question is - What form of locking mechanisms are used on trailers/containers across the pond? I have never seen a European freight train 'up close and personal' to be able to discern the load securements used for both lading and trailer/containers.
The bigger question is - What form of locking mechanisms are used on trailers/containers across the pond? I have never seen a European freight train 'up close and personal' to be able to discern the load securements used for both lading and trailer/containers.
This news just broke 1-2 days ago, and can be found under this search:
"Denmark bans truck trailers on trains." There are many pages of links, but none of this is found with the initial coverage of the accident which is found by search terms such as "Denmark Train Accident".
Regarding your question about the type of trailer securement used in Denmark:
In the link posted above by blue streak 1, it says this:
"Similar ‘pocket wagons’ are widely used across Europe and rely on the road trailer being mounted to the wagon via a system that replicates the arrangement for road movement, with the pin securing the connection between trailer and lorry tractor unit."
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
blue streak 1 One RR action plan has banned wagons until cause solved. https://www.railjournal.com/freight/denmark-bans-pocket-wagons-after-great-belt-accident/
One RR action plan has banned wagons until cause solved.
https://www.railjournal.com/freight/denmark-bans-pocket-wagons-after-great-belt-accident/
That news seems like quite a smoking gun. From this link:
“The agency said Tuesday's decision came after a test showed some semi-trailers were not securely locked on the flatcars of freight trains.”
Read more here: https://www.bradenton.com/news/business/article224069100.html#storylink=cpy
However, this news is not entirely clear. What it lacks is an explanation of why the locking of trailers to flat cars has been found to be not secure. I can see the following possible explanations:
Locking mechanism not properly activated.
Locking mechanism weakened over time due to trailer operation stresses either on rail or highway, or both.
Locking mechanism design is inadequate or defective.
Even the above quote is unclear. How many semi-trailers were found not securely locked on the flatcars? How many such loads were inspected?
It is amazing if this problem has been observed in the past without having been remedied, and has finally caused this terrible collision to force the issue. It is equally amazing if an inspection can find several trailers not securely attached to their flatcars, and yet this problem has never been known in the past while it has existed.
There is no question that even one empty beer bottle could kill someone if it struck them at 100 mph. However, in this accident, the damage, injury, and death were not caused by airborne beer cases, as was first reported.
The first conclusion by reporters and others at the scene was that wind blew open the trailer curtains and then dislodged the cased beer cargo, which then became airborne and penetrated the passenger train, causing damage, and fatalities. This led to the discussion above about inadequate securement of the beer cases in the trailer. However, this first conclusion was an error and has since been corrected by a revised explanation which states that the passenger train struck a trailer that had fallen off of the freight train. It was that collision that opened the trailers as well as the side of the passenger train.
However, the fatality-causing damage to the train is visible in long telephoto shots looking north. That damage appears to extend to the first four cars, including the cab car.
So, while high wind has been blamed for causing this collision, the story has transitioned from blaming the wind for opening the trailers and taking beer cases airborne; to one of the trailers falling off of the freight train and being struck by the passenger train.
In other words, the “cargo” that fell off the freight train and was struck by the passenger train was not beer cases carried off after the wind tore open the trailer curtains. Instead, it was a whole trailer full of beer cases that became detached from its anchoring mechanism on the freight train. We don’t know if the wind caused that.
It would be hard to believe that the trailer anchoring mechanism would fail due to high wind; although maybe the anchoring design prefers to let the trailer loose before the wind force tips the flat car over and causes a derailment.
Incidentally, if the trailer never actually fell free until impact, and was just being carried as a shifted load, I wonder how far the freight train traveled in that condition. The shift may have occurred several miles before the collision with the passenger train.
Is the successful operation of the trailer securement anchoring mechanism subject to human error?
Wind has tremendous power - after all it moved world commerce through the 19th Century and into the 20th Century.
Railcar sides - in the wind are nothing more or less than large sails, put enough wind against sails and they will move.
A beer case containing bottles at a closing speed of 100 mph will kill people and do a lot of damage to structures.European authorities have banned disposable crates and pallets so these would have been heavier and stronger than the US equivilents.
The Daily Mail story has more extensive photos of the damage.
Authorities had closed the adjacent highway lanes as a precaution due to the high winds, yet they failed to consider what the same high winds might do to an Intermodal train. Similar problems occur in the US on the east slope of the Rocky Mountains although the reason is different. In both cases high winds cause big problems for Intermodal. BNSF's ex-GN mainline was briefly closed to Intermodal trains when 70 mph susttained winds with gusts as high as 90 mph were recorded on sensors placed along the tracks. These sensors are tiedd into the signal system and will show Red signals when wind speeds reach a certain level. Also BNSF has erected a wind deflector fence along a curved fill just west of the Browning, MT station where at least two serious derailments were caused by the winds.
blue streak 1 Euclid good analysis . However we need to know why curtains on more than one trailer were knocked off. If they were in the direction of travel yoou probably are right . However the other way ? ?
Euclid good analysis . However we need to know why curtains on more than one trailer were knocked off. If they were in the direction of travel yoou probably are right . However the other way ? ?
I assume that after immediately after the first trailer was struck by the passenger train, it produced a lot of steel structural debris that fouled the passage of both trains. Then both trains passed that point of collision and both of them sideswiped that interfering wreckage of the trailer that had been directly struck by the passenger train.
There were multiple trailers in succession following the first trailer that had come loose and was struck by the passenger train. Those following trailers then snagged that wreckage of the first trailer as they each passed. That snagging in a sideswipe action is what opened up the several trailers and also pulled out some of their cargo. That damage was not done by wind. It was done by collision forces.
However, it may indeed have been wind that set up this collision by causing the first trailer to lose its mechanical attachment to the flat car it was riding. If wind caused that, it will be interesting to learn why just that one connection failed in the wind.
One question that the photos and descriptions do not answer is whether the first trailer, that detached from its flat car, immediately fell off of the flatcar, landed on the ground, and became stationary before being hit by the passenger train—or—whether it continued to ride the flat car, but was in a dislodged position which interfered with trains on the opposing adjacent track. I think the evidence suggests that it was the latter.
This would mean that the first trailer was moving with the freight train when it was struck by the opposing passenger train. This would create a larger impact than if the first trailer had fallen clear of the freight train and stopped before being hit by the passenger train.
If the first trailer had fallen clear of the freight train and stopped prior to being hit by the passenger train, it is more likely that it would have been far enough away from the freight train to be either perfectly in line with the passenger train or even to its right side. Either location would have made it more likely that, after it was struck by the passenger train, none of the trailer wreckage would have been struck by the cars of the freight train. It would also have been more likely that none of the trailer wreckage would have made hard contact with the sides of the passenger train after it struck the trailer.
But the evidence indicates that most of the trailer wreckage was caught in an opposing roller action between the two opposing trains. This would cause the rolling wad of trailer wreckage to exert great pressure between the sides of each train in addition to the lines of force related to the travel of each train.
It is interesting to consider that if the trailers had not had such soft sides, there might have been more damage and fatalities on the passenger train.
This story indicates to me that this was a collision between two trains. Flying beer cases had nothing to do with it. That was just cargo spilled in the collision. It was the collision that killed people.
As first reported:
Initially, news reports suggested that, as a freight train was meeting and passing a passenger train, high wind tore open the curtain sides of trailers on flatcars on the freight train, exposing the beer crates inside of the trailers. Then the wind got hold of the beer crates, taking them airborne, and a barrage of beer crates struck the passenger train.
As now reported:
For some unknown reason, an entire trailer load of beer crates became detached from the flat car in the consist of the freight train. Then the trailer began shifting to the left side of the flat car and fouled the adjacent mainline track. The engineer of the approaching passenger train spotted the fouling trailer and applied braking to the passenger train. He could not stop in time. Apparently the freight train also could not stop in time, although it is not clear whether the freight train engineer saw the fouling trailer. In any case, the passenger train struck the fouling trailer head-on as it was being carried in the opposite direction by the freight train.
My assumption: As the moving passenger train passed the moving freight train, the truck trailer was still clinging to the freight train flat car, but was fouling the path of the approaching passenger train.
One train striking fouling equipment from an opposing train on double track is a classic rail accident. It need not have anything to do with high wind.
I assume that in the case of the multiple trailers with their curtains torn open, they were not torn open by wind. They were torn open by the trailers side swiping the wreckage from the one fouling trailer that was impacted and propelled backward relative to the freight train. I see no indication that this was caused by high wind, unless the wind dislodged the connection between the trailer and its flat car.
In other words, both the passenger train and the freight train each carried portions of wreckage in the direction opposing the direction of the opposite train’s travel. And each train sideswiped the wreckage being carried by the other train. So wreckage raked the sides of both trains. When it raked the passenger train, it tore the sides open and killed passengers. When it raked the freight train, it tore the trailer curtains open and pulled out some of the beer case cargo.
A question raised on another post will need more investigation. Could the wind have caused some beer to blow off the trailer and the lack of balance of the trailer caued the trailer to shift off the carrier ?
I for one do not understand why the Europeans use the tarp sided trucks for hauling palletized freight. I would tend to think the metal walled trailer is stronger though and would have kept the smaller cases in the trailer vs flying through the windows. The trailer might still have been light enough for the wind to shift the load off the freight train. Who knows though, maybe impact would have torn it apart and still sent the cases flying even if the trailer had metal sides.
Also, I wonder if more seperation between the tracks on the bridge would have made a difference or even a barrier between tracks to deflect shifting loads.
I know I read somewhere the Milwaukee Road had issues with TOFC trailers being blown off trains on one if it's westerly bridges over a wide river expanse. Forget where that bridge was though.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46745652
This indicates that the accident had nothing to do with cargo being insufficiently secured in the curtain trailers. The passenger train was not ripped open by flying cases of beer. From the link:
“The commuter train is believed to have been hit by a trailer from a passing freight train during a heavy storm.”
“Initially, the rail network operator said some sort of "debris" had hit the train. But Danish media now report that the suspected cause is a truck trailer which moved from its resting place on a freight car during high winds.”
"One of the containers was blown off the cargo train into the rails, because of the wind. Our driver tried to stop the train, pulling the brake. But the train continued to drive a bit, and crashed into the container blown off from the cargo,"…
It raises these questions:
How are the trailers secured to the flat cars?
Can high wind defeat this securement mechanism?
If so, what is the protection against the failure of the trailer-flat car securement mechanism due to high wind?
Can operator error result in the inadequate application of this securement mechanism?
Almost sounds like a really bad Homer Simpson goes to Denmark story until the facts and fatalities settle in. Would PTC have made a difference? Wonder what kneejerk reactions come out of this?
Hopefully the Danish rail safety folks go after those associated with the failure to secure the load and call it good.
greyhounds Murphy Siding We receive merchandise every day on curtain vans. The material is all strapped down as if it were on a flatbed truck. the curtain is just there to keep the weather out. The curtain is fastened solid at the front so if was loose, that was just the tail end flapping in the slipstream. It might look scary but it's not really a threat. Thank you for that useful information. I see an opportunity for curtain sides in rail freight. I'd hate to see that killed off by media sensationalism.
Murphy Siding We receive merchandise every day on curtain vans. The material is all strapped down as if it were on a flatbed truck. the curtain is just there to keep the weather out. The curtain is fastened solid at the front so if was loose, that was just the tail end flapping in the slipstream. It might look scary but it's not really a threat.
Thank you for that useful information. I see an opportunity for curtain sides in rail freight. I'd hate to see that killed off by media sensationalism.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
blue streak 1murphy siding We receive merchandise every day on curtain vans. The material is all strapped down as if it were on a flatbed truck. the curtain is just there to keep the weather out. The curtain is fastened solid at the front so if was loose, that was just the tail end flapping in the slipstream. It might look scary but it's not really a threat. Note how the ladding is not attached on this attached link and pictures. No where do I see any strapping down of the load. The curtains hide that from prying eyes of regulators. What is the possibility that that can happen here as well ? There are some drivers out there that do not meet the high standards that one of our poster's company has . https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6546741/Several-people-killed-train-crash-bridge-linking-islands-Denmark.html
murphy siding We receive merchandise every day on curtain vans. The material is all strapped down as if it were on a flatbed truck. the curtain is just there to keep the weather out. The curtain is fastened solid at the front so if was loose, that was just the tail end flapping in the slipstream. It might look scary but it's not really a threat.
We receive merchandise every day on curtain vans. The material is all strapped down as if it were on a flatbed truck. the curtain is just there to keep the weather out. The curtain is fastened solid at the front so if was loose, that was just the tail end flapping in the slipstream. It might look scary but it's not really a threat.
Note how the ladding is not attached on this attached link and pictures. No where do I see any strapping down of the load. The curtains hide that from prying eyes of regulators. What is the possibility that that can happen here as well ? There are some drivers out there that do not meet the high standards that one of our poster's company has .
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6546741/Several-people-killed-train-crash-bridge-linking-islands-Denmark.html
As this story develops, it seems to me that it was not windblown cases of beer that struck and tore into the sides of the passenger train, thus killing passengers. It was a whole trailer load of empty beer crates that was blown off the flatcar and tore into the passenger train. Perhaps the original article here needs updating.
Death toll up to 8 ..
If you look at the pallets, it appears that the load was placed for rapid loading and unloading by forklifts. It also appears that the beer crates were not even strapped to the pallets, much less the car deck.
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More recently I remember hearing of a loose boxcar door being sucked off a freight by the slipstream of a passing Amtrak train. The door bounced along the side of the passenger train and left a large gash in the roof of the dining car, which fortunately was empty at the time.
Much farther back in time there was a wreck on the NYC's 4-track mainline caused by a load of steel pipe falling off a freight. Another train derailed after hitting the pipe and two more plowed into its wreckage.
Thoughts and prayers for the victims and their families, but I must admit I did one heck of a double take when I saw this headline.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Murphy SidingWe receive merchandise every day on curtain vans. The material is all strapped down as if it were on a flatbed truck. the curtain is just there to keep the weather out. The curtain is fastened solid at the front so if was loose, that was just the tail end flapping in the slipstream. It might look scary but it's not really a threat.
Depending on further information, if it was "wind blown beer" flying in to the passenger train, it's a tragic, unique accident.
But other accounts I've read say the cargo fell off the freight train and the passenger train ran in to it. That's happened before.
Way back when an International Harvester tractor loaded on a flatcar came loose and was hit by an eastbound Zephyr in Downers Grove, IL. The old shovel nose Zephyr was wrecked. In a more recent case a TOFC trailer just swung out, held by the hitch, in front of an Amtrak train.
This "wind blown beer" angle sounds interesting and unique. But, for now, I wouldn't rule out improperly loaded freight just falling off in to the passenger train.
blue streak 1 Always wondered about those trailers on US highways with thoses same curtains. Acquaintance spoke that he saw one start flaping and was quick to flag the driver down. Will now give them even more space ! This has to go down as the most unusual passenger train accident of the decade ?
Always wondered about those trailers on US highways with thoses same curtains. Acquaintance spoke that he saw one start flaping and was quick to flag the driver down. Will now give them even more space !
This has to go down as the most unusual passenger train accident of the decade ?
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