Overmod 54light15 I wonder if Harley Earl had anything to say about it. We should remember the Trains article on the E unit paint schemes, which pointed out that EMC/D working with clients produced memorable magic, but GM 'left to its own devices' produced remarkably non-memorable things (the 1939 New York World's Fair E-unit scheme being a good example). One wonders how much "other" influence on the Art and Color people might have been involved in development of the warbonnet, especially considering the original paint scheme on the ATSF one-spot twins only a couple of years earlier...
54light15 I wonder if Harley Earl had anything to say about it.
We should remember the Trains article on the E unit paint schemes, which pointed out that EMC/D working with clients produced memorable magic, but GM 'left to its own devices' produced remarkably non-memorable things (the 1939 New York World's Fair E-unit scheme being a good example). One wonders how much "other" influence on the Art and Color people might have been involved in development of the warbonnet, especially considering the original paint scheme on the ATSF one-spot twins only a couple of years earlier...
- PDN.
P.S. - Here's a link to a decent blog with some of Hill's illustrations and commentary:
https://streamlinermemories.info/?p=2799
And one to the subject at hand:
https://streamlinermemories.info/Posters/SuperChief8-27-51.jpg
This is the Bern Hill collection that the blogger referenced - well worth your time if you're into this kind of thing:
http://badcatrecords.com/BadCat/AA_review_BERNhill.htm
FWIW, it finally dawned on me that the poster for the "Lehigh Valley Railroad - Route of the Black Diamond" is a very stylized aerial view of Jim Thrope, PA - the LV station was actually across the Lehigh River, in East Jim Thorpe. The tracks on the other side of the river are the Central Railroad of New Jersey's . . . which has its own poster 4 lines up, captioned as "Jersey Central Railway - The Big Little Railroad", showing the Newark Bay lift bridges.
Does the chrome on the safety glasses count?
Overmod 54light15 "fighter aircraft?" The Lockheed P-38 to be exact! That's where the 49 Cadillac's tail fins come from along with the shape of the rear quarter panels. Didn't the first GM diesels have the portholes in about 1939? I could be arch and point out the P-38 design antedates that.*
54light15
"fighter aircraft?" The Lockheed P-38 to be exact! That's where the 49 Cadillac's tail fins come from along with the shape of the rear quarter panels. Didn't the first GM diesels have the portholes in about 1939?
I could be arch and point out the P-38 design antedates that.*
While the XP-38 first flew in 1939, it only made a few flights before crashing in a publicity flight. The first YP-38 flew about two years later and became one of the first planes to suffer from compressibility due to transonic airflow. One other feature of the P-38 was turbocharged engines allowing for high speeds at high altitudes which also meant no exhaust staks on the sides of the nacelles.
54light15"fighter aircraft?" The Lockheed P-38 to be exact! That's where the 49 Cadillac's tail fins come from along with the shape of the rear quarter panels. Didn't the first GM diesels have the portholes in about 1939?
But the story behind the Venti-Ports includes the fact that there were little lights behind the 'holes' on the first one that fired in time with the cylinders on the engine (someone will no doubt invoke early Baldwins and other engines with multiple stacks that proudly displayed their firing order, too). High-powered engines on aircraft had displayed flame at their short exhaust stacks for many years before that, so it was something of a 'known' trope for automobiles to get them. Start at about 1:00 here to get an idea of the appearance.
There is a funny story that the original styling Venti-Ports were made of plumbing fittings, acquired on a quick run to a hardware store, and making them flash was innovated afterward.
Why this has not been 're-discovered' in these recent years of synthetic exhaust noise piped into the passenger cabin, and anticollision noise standards being proposed for electric cars, is something of a mystery. Surely providing four or more little lights or strobes on each side combined with the coughing roar of a Packard or Allison would get any pedestrian to Take Notice of even the most pathetic Leaf-type vehicle... and then there is the South African precedent of using actual flames to help deter surrounding 'infantry' when they fail to give you proper respect...
*And, if I remember correctly, some of the early UP motor-train locomotives had more portholes than four, but in any case they're windows, not the visual equivalent of stacks...
mudchickenNo "Dagmar" bumpers and minimal chrome to boot....
Yes, but this raises the question of where ARE your ports, exactly? And are they rigged to flash synchronously?
No "Dagmar" bumpers and minimal chrome to boot....
MC, I get that - your "Roadmaster" has nothing to do with a car!
mudchicken 54light15 Ahh... the Ventiports! I think you're on to something. I'm an old European car guy but I sure am not going to kick a 1949 Roadmaster convertible out of my garage! Gunmetal gray with a red interior, thank you very much. (1956 Roadmaster, I resemble that remark -thank you)
54light15 Ahh... the Ventiports! I think you're on to something. I'm an old European car guy but I sure am not going to kick a 1949 Roadmaster convertible out of my garage! Gunmetal gray with a red interior, thank you very much.
Ahh... the Ventiports! I think you're on to something. I'm an old European car guy but I sure am not going to kick a 1949 Roadmaster convertible out of my garage! Gunmetal gray with a red interior, thank you very much.
(1956 Roadmaster, I resemble that remark -thank you)
Dad had 1954 & 1957 Centurys
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
The ventiports were so well-admired that it was possible to buy fakes that you could fasten to the sides, below the hood.
Johnny
CSSHEGEWISCHCompare Buick Venti-ports with the FT's portholes
The Venti-Ports are of the same general vintage as the first Cadillac tailfins. Both those design 'tropes' are derived from WWII fighter aircraft, the Venti-Ports invoking short exhaust stacks. Needless to say, the FT portholes considerably predate use of the idea in mainstream automobile styling.
I'm sure that Santa Fe had more than a little input into the Warbonnet livery but I wouldn't discount EMD's contribution.
On the other end of the spectrum, consider the similarity of various paint schemes on F units of various railroads. The colors may be different but the arrangement is similar to identical. Compare early RI, GN, ACL, FEC, etc. and it's hard to miss.
DPM once mused that whoever styled the early Buicks must have had some influence on the FT's styling. Compare Buick Venti-ports with the FT's portholes
That was certainly at the height of his influence, right at the time he renamed Art and Color as Styling.
54light15GM designed the Warbonnet scheme? I had no idea but it makes sense.
A fair number of the schemes on early locos were designed by GM. Can't offer chapter and verse, but over multiple stories about various locomotives and railroads, that seems to be the case.
Because steam was generally just plain black, the railroads and builders had pretty much a blank canvas when it came to "decorating" those new-fangled Diesels.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
"snot brake?" In the navy we called it a snot locker. GM designed the Warbonnet scheme? I had no idea but it makes sense. I wonder if Harley Earl had anything to say about it.
MikeFFFrom Wikipedia (the usual disclaimer applies) Warbonnet paint scheme devised by Leland Knickerbocker of the GM Art and Color Section. Its design is protected under U.S. Patent D106,920, granted on November 9, 1937.
Typical for Wikipedia, it has nothing on Leland A. Knickerbocker, which is strange because the name is highlighted in the post. He is 5th of 6 named (!) on the design patent, after Blomberg, of all people (!!) Hamilton is first named but Google Patents attributes it to Dilworth -- go figure. I have no reason to disbelieve either the paint design or the colors were Knickerbocker's.
Firelock76By the way, the Germans had a slang term for a toothbrush mustasche. "The snot brake."
Surely a pun on 'Notbremse', emergency brake
Firelock76The "Distaff" thing? It's got a name.
Sword side and distaff side; ancient euphemism to avoid the s-word.
The line to Churchill's open? That's great! Now that didn't seem to take too long, so it makes me wonder what all the heel-dragging was about.
The "Distaff" thing? It's got a name. PM me if you don't know what it is. It had me on the floor when I heard it.
Annnnnd...in other news we are all 1/1024 or 1/512 generically Native North American so we are all Natives and if we all are then there are none. This is problematic or maybe not.
Flash news,...Pot legalized right across the entire Dominion today, shops everywhere, old ex politicians major shareholders all over the place, apparently the lineups of Americans from Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan in Sault Ste.Marie, Ontario and outside the stores was astonishing.
The line to Churchill is now repaired, fundamentally anyway, so all that fighting and hoopla and economic gurus declaring it dead and useless can stuff it and join the lineups.
One of the reasons Hitler adopted the toothbrush mustasche was close to the same reason he adopted the swastika. He wanted a look for himself that people wouldn't forget. He was right on that one too.
One of the early Nazi followers, Ernst Haenfstangel, said to Hitler "Why that kind of mustasche, it's old fashioned and out of style!"
Hitler replied "Give it time, it'll catch on again!" Sure enough, watch some footage of Nazi party rallys and sure enough, there's plenty of toothbrush mustaches. By the way, the Germans had a slang term for a toothbrush mustasche. "The snot brake." Probably dropped it after Adolf took over.
Hitler certainly knew who Charlie Chaplin was, but if he got the mustache idea from Charlie he never said so.
54light15One of the best Hitler impersonators was the legendary Moe Howard. In several Stooge films, he plays him and has Hitler's barking shriek down pat. Or was it shrieking bark?
Ah yes. Hailstone, dictator of Moronika. In pupik gehabt haben!
From Wikipedia (the usual disclaimer applies) Warbonnet paint scheme devised by Leland Knickerbocker of the GM Art and Color Section. Its design is protected under U.S. Patent D106,920, granted on November 9, 1937. It is reminiscent of a Native American ceremonial headdress.
Mike
In the Science museum in London, there is a picture of a four engined biplane airliner from Imperial Airways taken in Egypt in about 1930. One of the refueling crew had a toothbrush mustache and it wasn't Charlie Chaplin so it had to be Hitler!
One of the best Hitler impersonators was the legendary Moe Howard. In several Stooge films, he plays him and has Hitler's barking shriek down pat. Or was it shrieking bark?
Overmod Note however that no one wears a toothbrush mustache these days in honor of Charlie Chaplin without being mistaken for ... something else.
Note however that no one wears a toothbrush mustache these days in honor of Charlie Chaplin without being mistaken for ... something else.
Like one of the "very fine people" in Charlottesville.
Apparently Chaplin arranged for a copy of The Great Dictator to be sent to Hitler, who then watched it twice! Unfortunately no one recorded his reaction, but the film was banned throughout Germany and Nazi-occupied Europe.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
SD70DudeFrom the same era, I wonder if anyone today has ever accused Charlie Chaplin of being a Nazi? If the moustache fits...
Perhaps the most powerful trope in "The Great Dictator". A generation of people recognized the Little Tramp's mustache before Schicklgruber went into the beer hall (and later made the mustache famous for other reasons).
54light15 Last night I watched a short Buster Keaton film, called "The Paleface." In several scenes he's wearing a blanket and in its patterns are swastikas with short ends? legs? whatevers. Funny as hell like all his films.
Last night I watched a short Buster Keaton film, called "The Paleface." In several scenes he's wearing a blanket and in its patterns are swastikas with short ends? legs? whatevers. Funny as hell like all his films.
From the same era, I wonder if anyone today has ever accused Charlie Chaplin of being a Nazi? If the moustache fits...
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