SD70Dude Murphy Siding I'd be willing to bet that there are more people hit by lightning than there are people hit by trucks from a railroad car or locomotive. Any takers? This seems to be a thread focused on just about nothing. For that matter, what are the stats on innocent bystanders being killed by derailments, not just from free-flying wheelsets or trucks? Of course there are big disasters like Lac Megantic, but apart from that how often does this actually happen?
Murphy Siding I'd be willing to bet that there are more people hit by lightning than there are people hit by trucks from a railroad car or locomotive. Any takers? This seems to be a thread focused on just about nothing.
I'd be willing to bet that there are more people hit by lightning than there are people hit by trucks from a railroad car or locomotive. Any takers? This seems to be a thread focused on just about nothing.
For that matter, what are the stats on innocent bystanders being killed by derailments, not just from free-flying wheelsets or trucks?
Of course there are big disasters like Lac Megantic, but apart from that how often does this actually happen?
Ellicot City MD in 2012. Two 19 yr old girls were trespassing on a bridge when a coal train derailed. They were buried.
I remember a photo of a boxcar door which fell off a freight on the PRR High Line near 30th Street Station in Philly. It fell on a car in the Bulletin newspaper's parking lot. No fatalities. This was late 60's-early 70's, iirc.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/report-on-fatal-ellicott-city-train-accident-details-how-a-piece-of-rail-snapped/2014/08/23/aee05714-2950-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html%3Futm_term%3D.ac2debfcbbf5&ved=2ahUKEwi6gbDwuN7cAhUMU98KHU4SABcQFjADegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw1RnWzh36ivh19hmz-QZAzq&cshid=1533765392786
jeffhergertBut being 150 feet back, one should be fairly safe. Even for a 20 mph train derailing, 150 feet would probably be pretty safe. Now, standing close to or right along the edge of the ballast...
I get a good laugh out of those Yoopers (folks in the UP) that make films on the E&LS and then freak out when they see a log fall from a log car and nearly miss them or then there is this video..........which is also hilarious to watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOZNc8jevL8
Nice up and cozy close to a passing freight train and then at the end......lmao
He learns a lesson.......hopefully.........til the next film anyway....lol.
I'd be more worried about a truck on a 50 mph train ejecting a spring or brake shoe, without derailing. You see them around the right of way every now and then. They weren't placed there by the mechanical department after making a field repair.
Oh! Did I just stir the pot?]
But being 150 feet back, one should be fairly safe. Even for a 20 mph train derailing, 150 feet would probably be pretty safe. Now, standing close to or right along the edge of the ballast...
Jeff
There are 2 primary reasons why steel is hauled on flatbeds- one is flexibility so you can take on any other sort of flatbed load after steel is delivered, and the other is tare weight. A trailer built like coil cars would be much heavier and would severely cut down on the load that could be hauled. Along with those is the third reason-equipment cost.
PR
edblysard https://facebook.com/railroadfools/photos/a.625968290862582.1073741828.625047464287998/1650291551763579/?type=3&theater Because....
https://facebook.com/railroadfools/photos/a.625968290862582.1073741828.625047464287998/1650291551763579/?type=3&theater
Because....
- PDN.
Years ago I worked at a lumber yard a couple blocks of the interstate and next door to two truck stops. We used to do a lot of forklift work for truckers whose loads had shifted.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
zugmann BaltACD You also a Rotator Ron fan? I love his videos.
BaltACD
You also a Rotator Ron fan? I love his videos.
Have become so - reminds me of my days in the field rerailing yard derailments with wood blocking and replacers and working with the Wreck Train - locating the crane and then blocking up the outriggers for it to make a lift or two, knocking down the blocking, repositioning the crane and reblocking the outriggers.
High force locational physics of movement.
Using a crane takes a lot of thought and planning - something that isn't learned overnight. I am amazed at all the 'accessories' Ron keeps accessable in the truck - accessories that permit the magic to happen.
Went to Hagerstown yesterday - saw a flat bed with a similar load headed West on I-70.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
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BaltACD tree68 BaltACD Why are truckers using flatbeds to haul steel rolls? Because the railroads don't go there any more? Why don't truckers use 'trough' style trailers with structural pockets for the coiled steel. Using structural elements of the trailer to hold the load in place in addition to the commonly used tie downs
tree68 BaltACD Why are truckers using flatbeds to haul steel rolls? Because the railroads don't go there any more?
BaltACD Why are truckers using flatbeds to haul steel rolls?
Because the railroads don't go there any more?
Why don't truckers use 'trough' style trailers with structural pockets for the coiled steel. Using structural elements of the trailer to hold the load in place in addition to the commonly used tie downs
What happens when steel (not coils) on a truck shifts - and needs to be adjusted.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
CandOforprogress2 So you are standing trackside about 150 feet from a railroad car that is rocking back and forth and flips over as the the train is doing 20 mph. Or you are in your car at a grade crossiing and the train derails and starts acrordiinging. you think you are far enough away but out of nowhere a railroad wheel flys at you and crushes you and your car and you are at St Peters gate wondering what just happened. The picture of the 1000lb wheel set indented in the side of the Hopper car gives you a idea of what damage flying debris from derailing railroad cars can do. If highway trucks had the same setup the USDOT would have put a end to it years ago.
So you are standing trackside about 150 feet from a railroad car that is rocking back and forth and flips over as the the train is doing 20 mph. Or you are in your car at a grade crossiing and the train derails and starts acrordiinging. you think you are far enough away but out of nowhere a railroad wheel flys at you and crushes you and your car and you are at St Peters gate wondering what just happened. The picture of the 1000lb wheel set indented in the side of the Hopper car gives you a idea of what damage flying debris from derailing railroad cars can do. If highway trucks had the same setup the USDOT would have put a end to it years ago.
Johnny
charlie hebdo BaltACD charlie hebdo rrnut282 The trucks have been held together by gravity since day one, give or take. So, why is it a problem now? Derailments tend to take place in locations with a paucity of bystanders. IMO, the number of injuries/fatalities from loose wheelsets is quite low. And when a derailment inevitably will occur in an urban or suburban location? The maintenance on flat wheels is pretty remiss. What then, empty slogans like "thoughts and prayers?" The Class 1's have been using Wheel Impact Detectors for the past decade. These detectors measure the impact of 'flat' wheels upon the track structure. The measurements created a record for the car in one of 5 catagories. 1. No Defect2. Measurable impact - flag is set on cars record for continuing follow up3. Increased level of impact - additional flag is set on car's record - if car is shopped for other reasons - change indicated wheel set(s)4. Higher level of impact - train containing car is to immediately reduce speed to 30 MPH, car can continue in train at 30 MPH to destination and then be shopped to replace wheel set(s).5. Very High Impact - STOP train immediately, Have crew inspect car, IF safe to continue - do so at 10 MPH and set car off in first available location. IF not safe, Car Dept. will be dispatched to change wheel set(s) immediately Thoughts and Prayers are for Charlie Hebdo's remiss operation. I know what I hear. It's obvious to any bystander with decent hearing. It is not obvious to the engine crew at all. And does the Master of the Empty Slogan, i.e., the Cliche-Meister, know what are the specific criteria to reach those different levels of defect (not just what is to be done)?
BaltACD charlie hebdo rrnut282 The trucks have been held together by gravity since day one, give or take. So, why is it a problem now? Derailments tend to take place in locations with a paucity of bystanders. IMO, the number of injuries/fatalities from loose wheelsets is quite low. And when a derailment inevitably will occur in an urban or suburban location? The maintenance on flat wheels is pretty remiss. What then, empty slogans like "thoughts and prayers?" The Class 1's have been using Wheel Impact Detectors for the past decade. These detectors measure the impact of 'flat' wheels upon the track structure. The measurements created a record for the car in one of 5 catagories. 1. No Defect2. Measurable impact - flag is set on cars record for continuing follow up3. Increased level of impact - additional flag is set on car's record - if car is shopped for other reasons - change indicated wheel set(s)4. Higher level of impact - train containing car is to immediately reduce speed to 30 MPH, car can continue in train at 30 MPH to destination and then be shopped to replace wheel set(s).5. Very High Impact - STOP train immediately, Have crew inspect car, IF safe to continue - do so at 10 MPH and set car off in first available location. IF not safe, Car Dept. will be dispatched to change wheel set(s) immediately Thoughts and Prayers are for Charlie Hebdo's remiss operation.
charlie hebdo rrnut282 The trucks have been held together by gravity since day one, give or take. So, why is it a problem now? Derailments tend to take place in locations with a paucity of bystanders. IMO, the number of injuries/fatalities from loose wheelsets is quite low. And when a derailment inevitably will occur in an urban or suburban location? The maintenance on flat wheels is pretty remiss. What then, empty slogans like "thoughts and prayers?"
rrnut282 The trucks have been held together by gravity since day one, give or take. So, why is it a problem now? Derailments tend to take place in locations with a paucity of bystanders. IMO, the number of injuries/fatalities from loose wheelsets is quite low.
The trucks have been held together by gravity since day one, give or take. So, why is it a problem now? Derailments tend to take place in locations with a paucity of bystanders. IMO, the number of injuries/fatalities from loose wheelsets is quite low.
And when a derailment inevitably will occur in an urban or suburban location? The maintenance on flat wheels is pretty remiss. What then, empty slogans like "thoughts and prayers?"
The Class 1's have been using Wheel Impact Detectors for the past decade. These detectors measure the impact of 'flat' wheels upon the track structure. The measurements created a record for the car in one of 5 catagories.
1. No Defect2. Measurable impact - flag is set on cars record for continuing follow up3. Increased level of impact - additional flag is set on car's record - if car is shopped for other reasons - change indicated wheel set(s)4. Higher level of impact - train containing car is to immediately reduce speed to 30 MPH, car can continue in train at 30 MPH to destination and then be shopped to replace wheel set(s).5. Very High Impact - STOP train immediately, Have crew inspect car, IF safe to continue - do so at 10 MPH and set car off in first available location. IF not safe, Car Dept. will be dispatched to change wheel set(s) immediately
Thoughts and Prayers are for Charlie Hebdo's remiss operation.
I know what I hear. It's obvious to any bystander with decent hearing. It is not obvious to the engine crew at all. And does the Master of the Empty Slogan, i.e., the Cliche-Meister, know what are the specific criteria to reach those different levels of defect (not just what is to be done)?
Not being in the Mechanical Department I don't know the specific readings that occasion each step in the progression. I do know from experience, that the weight of the car on rail does affect the reading - We had a loaded coal car that got the 'rewheel at destination' level, several days later the car went back to the mines empty and got the 'increased level of impact' reading and it continued on to the mine and was reloaded. Several days later it came East and got the Very High Impact - set out at once reading. Humans do make mistakes; what, if any disciplinary action was taken with the Car Dept. and/or Terminal Management at destination, I don't know.
Watching coal trains pass the back door of my work location from time to time - I know I was hearing fewer 'flat' wheels as my retirement approached than I was hearing when our office was moved to Baltimore in 2008. I don't have facts or figures to back up my casual observations - just my experience of watching trains pass my location off and on for the 51.5 years of my career.
I have been told the rule-of-thumb is if you can hear a flat spot from more than 7 cars away it is bad. But our hearing is not a precise gauge, and varies from person to person.
I agree that flat spots are a problem and are probably not fixed as often as they were in years past, but trains are not falling off the rails left and right either and I believe derailment rates have actually been decreasing.
I know what I hear. It's obvious to any bystander (need not be an 'expert' railroader for this one) with reasonably decent hearing. For two good reasons, it would not be obvious to the engine crew at all.
So does the Master of the Empty Slogan, i.e., the Cliche-Meister, know what are the specific criteria to reach those different levels of defect (not just what is to be done)?
duplicate
Different versions, but yes. (some of the older technology has been moved out on the flatlands near major yards where not quite released handbrakes are an issue)
In the same vein, CN is starting to use temperature detectors at the bottom of long descending grades to find cars with bad order air brakes. I can't remember if this is a modification of existing Hot Box Detectors, or a standalone installation.
Have the American railroads been doing this too?
Boy is ChumpCharlie in for a shock when he finds out how Hayes/Buda/Nolan track bumping posts are designed (not wheel stops - different principle)...
charlie hebdoAnd when a derailment inevitably will occur in an urban or suburban location? The maintenance on flat wheels is pretty remiss. What then, empty slogans like "thoughts and prayers?"
Do the trucks go much farther than the rest of the car? Is this really a problem? Anyone have any real documentation?
Overmod tree68 blue streak 1 Can some one tell us if passenger cars do have keepers? Thought the wheels were attached to trucks and the trucks were attached to car? Dunno - I do recall seeing chains attached to the truck frames and the body of tenders, though. There is little point putting 'keepers' on the bearing seats of three-piece freight trucks, as there's very little structure to keep the truck together in even relatively gentle derailments. You have two sideframes located to the bolster by little more than wedges, which is one reason there's little purpose to putting locking kingpins or other positive attachment between bolster and car underframe. Passenger trucks usually have more positive location of the axles (in pedestals, on older designs, and via struts, rods, and other low-mass methods in more modern types). These usually have locking kingpins to secure the truck frame to the car; I believe current Amtrak standards specify them. The locking pins do most of the job that chains would do. Yes, many tenders had chains securing their trucks. We had a discussion a while back about diesel locomotives having chains.
tree68 blue streak 1 Can some one tell us if passenger cars do have keepers? Thought the wheels were attached to trucks and the trucks were attached to car? Dunno - I do recall seeing chains attached to the truck frames and the body of tenders, though.
blue streak 1 Can some one tell us if passenger cars do have keepers? Thought the wheels were attached to trucks and the trucks were attached to car?
Can some one tell us if passenger cars do have keepers? Thought the wheels were attached to trucks and the trucks were attached to car?
My understanding is that tender trucks were chained to limit their pivot and their separation from the frame in case of a derailment. The point was to keep them generally in their nomal location and generally aligned with the track, which would help protect the crew by limiting the violence of tender-to-engine movment during a derailment.
It had nothing to do with protecting bystanders from loose parts becoming projectiles during a wreck, which appears to be the premise of the O.P.
blue streak 1 Can some one tell us if passenger cars do have keepers ? Thought the wheels were attached to trucka and the trucks were attached to car ?
Can some one tell us if passenger cars do have keepers ? Thought the wheels were attached to trucka and the trucks were attached to car ?
Dunno - I do recall seeing chains attached to the truck frames and the body of tenders, though.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
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