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Update on Gun Theft from sea containers on NS railroad in Chicago

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Update on Gun Theft from sea containers on NS railroad in Chicago
Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Monday, July 16, 2018 12:47 PM

Still no word on how they knew what railroad car to break into and that info may never be known.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-gun-theft-cargo-train-20171003-story.html

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, July 16, 2018 4:08 PM

CandOforprogress2
Still no word on how they knew what railroad car to break into and that info may never be known.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-gun-theft-cargo-train-20171003-story.html

BDL

Blind Dumb Luck

Break into enough containers or trailers and eventually you will find something of value.

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Posted by diningcar on Monday, July 16, 2018 4:46 PM

More likely they that had a tip

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Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, July 16, 2018 5:06 PM

I have to go with Balt, probably just pure luck.

I'll tell you something, I'd love to see the blizzard of law enforcement personnel descending on the NS yard.  Local, county, state, FBI, ATF, they'll be all over this one, trust me.

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, July 16, 2018 5:55 PM

I'm torn between blind luck and some inside information.

It'd be nice to think that everyone handling the freight is upstanding, but not necessarily.  

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, July 16, 2018 7:49 PM

tree68
I'm torn between blind luck and some inside information.

It'd be nice to think that everyone handling the freight is upstanding, but not necessarily.  

A lot depends on whether the actual Shipper and Consignee were shown on the shipping documents or if they were handled through 3PL on both ends.

If the Shipper shows as Rugger Armaments - it is pretty clear what the contents will be.

As much as I hate to say it - an employee that was under my chain of responsibility at one time (I had moved to another position when it hit the fan) was directing a theft ring using company police as the ones hitting the trailers and containers based off the information he was communicating from the wheel reports.  At the time the FBI busted his ring they carted away 4 40 foot semis of product that he had been selling at local flea markets.  I believe he ended up getting 10 years at Jimmy Hoffa U (Lewisville Federal Corrections facility in Pennsylvania).

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Monday, July 16, 2018 11:00 PM

BaltACD
Jimmy Hoffa U (Lewisville Federal Corrections facility in Pennsylvania). Add Quote to your Post

That would be Lewisburg.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, July 17, 2018 8:52 AM

charlie hebdo
 
BaltACD
Jimmy Hoffa U (Lewisville Federal Corrections facility in Pennsylvania). Add Quote to your Post 

That would be Lewisburg.

I stand corrected - once you have seen a ville and a burg one tends to look like the other and vice versa.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Backshop on Tuesday, July 17, 2018 12:26 PM

I doubt if they knew the guns would be there.  It's more likely that it was one pallet in an LTL load.  Otherwise, they would have gotten a lot more guns.  

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, July 17, 2018 12:57 PM

BaltACD
If the Shipper shows as Rugger Armaments - it is pretty clear what the contents will be.

League or Union? Smile

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Posted by caldreamer on Tuesday, July 17, 2018 2:32 PM

The consignor and consignee are required on bills of lading, even if it is a commision company the names of the shipper and receiver must be on the BOL.

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, July 17, 2018 2:43 PM

caldreamer

The consignor and consignee are required on bills of lading, even if it is a commision company the names of the shipper and receiver must be on the BOL.

 

Without this information, how can the carrier know where the shipment is going and whom to bill? 

When I shipped hazardous material, I gave the driver a bill of lading and information concerning each hazardous material in the shipment. The bill also showed who originatd the shipment.

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Posted by tdmidget on Tuesday, July 17, 2018 10:01 PM

caldreamer

The consignor and consignee are required on bills of lading, even if it is a commision company the names of the shipper and receiver must be on the BOL.

 

There is "A" shipper's name. It may not be the entity that tendered the goods. In a "blind" shipment "A" buys goods from "B". He sells them to "C". A does not want B to know who he is selling to or B may contact C and cut A out of the deal. A gives  B a bill of lading showing the carrier as consignee. A gives the carrier a bill showing A as the shipper and C as the consignee. The carrier picks up the goods and delivers to C who does not know who B is.

So, while a shipper must be shown, it may not be the entity where the goods originated. This arrangement could also be used by the actual shipper, in this case Sturm , Ruger ,& co., to conceal the actual shipper of the goods.

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Posted by tdmidget on Tuesday, July 17, 2018 10:05 PM

Also, what makes anyone think that a "sea container" is used to ship from New Hampshire to washington state?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, July 18, 2018 7:16 AM

Overmod
 
BaltACD
If the Shipper shows as Rugger Armaments - it is pretty clear what the contents will be.

 
Neither, rugby players in either version of the game don't wear armour.
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, July 18, 2018 10:36 AM

caldreamer

The consignor and consignee are required on bills of lading, even if it is a commision company the names of the shipper and receiver must be on the BOL.

 

Wouldn't it get shipped under a name that's less conspicuous just to keep it under the radar of potential thieves such as this? Shipped from S.W. Mfg.”, for example instead of advertising that this container is chock full of Smith & Wesson guns?

     I worked summers at an airport. A yellow Pinto station wagon would bring the weekly gold shipment from the Homestake Gold Mine.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, July 18, 2018 10:46 AM

Murphy Siding
 
caldreamer

The consignor and consignee are required on bills of lading, even if it is a commision company the names of the shipper and receiver must be on the BOL. 

Wouldn't it get shipped under a name that's less conspicuous just to keep it under the radar of potential thieves such as this? Shipped from S.W. Mfg.”, for example instead of advertising that this container is chock full of Smith & Wesson guns?

     I worked summers at an airport. A yellow Pinto station wagon would bring the weekly gold shipment from the Homestake Gold Mine.

You can rest assured that those that are stealing high value articles know all the shipping alias's of the various shippers and consignees.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Wednesday, July 18, 2018 11:31 AM

The waybill is not on the container or boxcar for the most part.

 

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Posted by BOB WITHORN on Wednesday, July 18, 2018 3:00 PM
If we blind ship to a customer from a supplier, the shipper shows us with the suppliers address. We are in Flint, Mi., buy from a Chicago whse. and ship to a customer in Bad Axe, Mi. All that is shown is us with a Chicago address and the receiving customer. We've even shipped to our selves from ourselves with addresses we're not at.
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Posted by SALfan on Wednesday, July 18, 2018 11:31 PM

BaltACD

 

 
charlie hebdo
 
BaltACD
Jimmy Hoffa U (Lewisville Federal Corrections facility in Pennsylvania). Add Quote to your Post 

That would be Lewisburg.

 

I stand corrected - once you have seen a ville and a burg one tends to look like the other and vice versa.

 

If you're ever in PA, stop by and take a look at Lewisburg.  Looks like a large, beautiful Gothic monastery . . . . . except it's surrounded by a 40-foot brick wall with gun towers.  Proper name is U.S. Penitentiary Lewisburg, and it is a pretty scary place.  Visited there a few times, don't want to go back.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, July 19, 2018 7:14 AM

SALfan
 
BaltACD
 
charlie hebdo 
BaltACD
Jimmy Hoffa U (Lewisville Federal Corrections facility in Pennsylvania). Add Quote to your Post 

That would be Lewisburg. 

I stand corrected - once you have seen a ville and a burg one tends to look like the other and vice versa. 

If you're ever in PA, stop by and take a look at Lewisburg.  Looks like a large, beautiful Gothic monastery . . . . . except it's surrounded by a 40-foot brick wall with gun towers.  Proper name is U.S. Penitentiary Lewisburg, and it is a pretty scary place.  Visited there a few times, don't want to go back.

Closest I get is driving up to Watkins Glen on US 15 and I intend to keep it that way.

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Posted by rrnut282 on Friday, July 20, 2018 1:44 PM

Murphy Siding
 

Wouldn't it get shipped under a name that's less conspicuous just to keep it under the radar of potential thieves such as this? Shipped from S.W. Mfg.”, for example instead of advertising that this container is chock full of Smith & Wesson guns?

     I worked summers at an airport. A yellow Pinto station wagon would bring the weekly gold shipment from the Homestake Gold Mine.

 

I worked at the airport, too.  Over on the airfreight side, it was common for a freight forwarder (Towne AirFreight in this case) to drop off a pallet of "parts" to be flown to themselves at another location.  There another company truck would pick it up at the dock and take it to their consignee for the pallet.  We could only tell by the packaging who the real shippers might have been.  

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Posted by ORNHOO on Tuesday, July 31, 2018 12:12 AM

So, you think Chicago is bad? https://jalopnik.com/mazda-is-getting-fleeced-because-trains-are-robbed-almo-1827967346

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Posted by samfp1943 on Wednesday, August 1, 2018 8:21 AM

ORNHOO

Heated up the link ! Thumbs Up

  Interesting article from the linked story; about how one town in Mexico has apparently, turned train robbery into a 'cottage industry'(?)

FTA:"...Some grow vegetables, others raise cattle, and some have taken to literally robbing trains...    Over the past year alone, there were 521 crimes committed against cargo trains in the town. And a chunk of those incidents bore no resemblance to the run-of-the-mill petty crime seen in the bigger cities of northern Mexico — vandalizing a train car or stealing railway signs. No, these were massive, choreographed affairs that often started with a low-tech trick that dates back to the days of the Wild West — piling rocks up high on the tracks — and involved small armies of thieves who descended on the derailed cars in waves to cart off the loot..."

 In the case of the Chicago area 'robberies'; it seems that the criminals are relaying on the 'odds of blind, dumb, luck'.  While randomly selecting containers or cars to break into(?). Or possibly, some cases, 'inside' information? Whistling.

 

 

 


 

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Posted by ORNHOO on Tuesday, June 15, 2021 9:56 PM

It seems that not even the military can keep their arms shipments safe from pilferage on the rails: 

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/15/1006564395/the-u-s-military-is-stumped-by-a-stolen-box-of-armor-piercing-grenades

 

 

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Posted by seppburgh2 on Tuesday, June 15, 2021 10:15 PM
The real sad news is that 30 gurnards were recovered. The shipment was 32. Story is not over.
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Posted by tdmidget on Wednesday, June 16, 2021 4:03 AM

BaltACD
And they wonder why they have all these shootings in Chicago? Maybe the answer is right here. Federal law provides that for EACH COUNT of possesion of a firearm by a "prohibited possessor" up to 4 years in prison. All  they were sentenced on was the actual theft from interstate commerce. Each could have gotton 416 years. That would likely stop these 3 at least.

 

 
CandOforprogress2
Still no word on how they knew what railroad car to break into and that info may never be known.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-gun-theft-cargo-train-20171003-story.html

 

BDL

Blind Dumb Luck

Break into enough containers or trailers and eventually you will find something of value.

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, June 16, 2021 9:06 AM

Not to minimise the seriousness of this, but take it from one with first-hand experience with the 40mm grenades they're pretty useless without the launchers, either the MK-19 or the M203, the same way a cartridge is useless without a gun to fire it from. 

"Range nearly a mile?"  Not really, effective range is about 400 yards. Far enough though. It might travel  nearly a mile but you'd never hit what you were shooting at.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, June 16, 2021 10:20 AM

Flintlock76
they're pretty useless without the launchers, either the MK-19 or the M203, the same way a cartridge is useless without a gun to fire it from. 

And as the Mau Mau and many other 'groups' have discovered, there are certainly low-tech 'alternatives' to sophisticated 'weapons systems' -- I will not go into them other than to say I would indeed worry where those two rounds might be...

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, June 16, 2021 10:48 AM

tdmidget
And they wonder why they have all these shootings in Chicago? Maybe the answer is right here. Federal law provides that for EACH COUNT of possession of a firearm by a "prohibited possessor" up to 4 years in prison. All  they were sentenced on was the actual theft from interstate commerce. Each could have gotten 416 years.

It is valuable to review the original Chicago Tribune story in that initial link -- there are some valuable details about this.

(I had to use the audio feature thanks to overly aggressive marketing ads; others may be able to read the 9 pages more easily)

Shelton was a 43-year-old 'father of 10' with a history of six railcar thefts but no more than a 3-year sentence (which obviously did not dissuade him from the practice).  He was the 4th of 11 prosecuted, but of course the story fails to mention or link to those other proceedings.

Somewhat incredibly to me, Shelton's attorney actually tried to use the argument that the theft of the guns was 'only a commodity' and that there is no provable link between the theft and anything involving street violence.  I suspect that the absence of Federal gun charges is related to this 'argument', although for Chicago to actually be consistent enforcing their gun laws, that (and a great deal else!) should have been invoked regardless of protected-group or other "concerns".

Apparently Shelton made a theatrical 'apology' that this time he 'gets it' and will mend his ways hereafter.  I do not know how long his 10-year sentence will run before he's paroled or whatever, but it may be interesting to discover how sincere that was.

If I were a practicing US Attorney I'd look straight to the relevant section of the USC involving interference with rail operations -- the same provision that should have been promptly used on those blockade idiots photographed throwing trash and fire to derail trains.  Interesting statutory penalties there to assure future compliance or recidivism!

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