...the Churchill Thread?
You know, the thread concerning the plight of those poor folks up in Churchill, Manitoba? The place that's hanging on by a thread because of a washed-out rail line, their only contact (aside from air and ship) with the outside world being the rail line that brings in all the things that make life possible?
The thread that led to some spirited and very passionate discussion?
The thread covering news from Canada that the American mainline media never sees fit to report on?
I've learned quite a lot from that thread. Haven't we all?
So then, what happened? It's gone like what the late great Lucius Beebe used to call "The snows of yesteryear."
Things were getting good, too...
What a shame.
Looks like the moderators wiped it, my posts to it have disappeared from my account history too.
Must have gotten too political, but it is difficult to have a non-political discussion about such topics. Perhaps the forum rules should be amended to allow for some political discussion in cases such as these.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Thank you Dude.
Wrote this a bit earlier on the Independence Day thread by Firelock:
Also...I see my Churchill thread has been taken down. What a dirty shame.
Perhaps all threads about Amtrak should be removed because its government and people actually have opinions. Anyone who passes judgement on life in the Canadian North and the welfare of Native communities far far from here need to think before they shoot their mouths off. There are Rat Finks and there are Cat Finks.
Yeah maybe all Amtrak and VIA threads should come down as it's impossible to discuss those without talking government and politics. It's the nature of the beast.
Can't speak about government entities without bringing up politics lads, that's just the way it is. And Amtrak and VIA certainly are government entities, any way you look at it.
Just sayin'.
Does anyone find it kind of ironic that a post all about railroading and a severe crisis caused by a damaged line was taken down during your celebration of Independence Day.
Real nice example of free speech there ...of which none of it was offensive or off topic.
Railroads and politics go together like stink on excrement. The two cannot be separated no matter what Trains thinks.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Thanks to Firelock and Balt for your support.
Yeah cat stink...glad I have a dog.
I suspect that if the discussion is in general terms, it's probably OK. (ie, the government this, the government that)
If someone is naming names (and possibly even parties), I'm guessing that starts crossing the line. You probably don't want to be calling Snuffy Smith of the Wagon Wheel party a lowdown dirty crook.
Perhaps we'll be enlightened.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Nothing of the sort was stated ..first Wanswheel now this. They took down my NAFTA post 2 weeks ago as well.
Hope you guys and gals like a steady diet of censored bland.
Personalized punishment for free speech miffed others do not agree with no regard to sensibilites or decency.
Clockwork Orange nightmare.
BaltACD "...Railroads and politics go together like stink on excrement. The two cannot be separated no matter what Trains thinks..."
"...Railroads and politics go together like stink on excrement. The two cannot be separated no matter what Trains thinks..."
The lingering odor of "Political Correctness". It tends to hang in the air, much like the odor of a road-killed polecat . Reminding every passing person of its presence.
It was an interesting conversation, among adults. Surprising, how it managed to drift South? Not even stopping at the 49th parallel.
Intimidating, for some, but not all
"Political correctness" is a buzzphrase usually used by the radical right to complain about expectations of common courtesy and decency in public discourse.
The Churchill post wasn't the only one censored. My response that factually corrected a blatantly political on the Adios Coal thread was deleted, but not the original post. So not all the censorship is of right wing posts, as some would contend.
Now me lads, suppose we return to the issue that's really important, that is, what's going to happen to all those good folks in Churchill if someone doesn't quit fooling around and gets down to the business of saving that rail line?
And be gentlemen, gentlemen.
And since it's just too good to be deleted, here's a second round of that Newfoundland song about the heartache of resettlement and the loss of home.
Remember, it's real people we're talking about here, not abstract numbers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS91DaVanEM
And learn the lesson, "they" could do it to you.
Railroads and politics? The thought strikes me that in addition to Amtrak and VIA. mass transit rail is also a "ward of the state." Can't escape it.
We left off with the Federal Government and Omnitrax in court and the Native groups negotiating the purchse of the line have been unsuccessful and have been stonewalled so walked away for now.
This weeks Lotto Max ( Canadian Lottery) jackpot is 55 million. The line costs 40 million to fix.
National Soverienty of Arctic Waters is at stake.
Dozens of small Native communities are left stranded.
It is freezing in Churchill and the 900 residents are sitting in their homes with mittens and touques on.
But people in the greater Toronto area pass judgement and say abonden the whole thing and its not worth it.
This goes way beyond any kind of for profit and it must be abandoned mentality.
It would be as if the USA wants everyone out of Anchorage Alaska because it's not cost effective.
You could say the US allowed something similar to happen when Barrow changed its name to its traditional Iñupiaq name, Utqiaġvik - a name that those in the other 49 state can't even begin to pronounce, let alone spell. I don't know how the Northernmost city in the USA can be considered cost effective.
You know Miningman, it strikes me those folks in Toronto and Ottawa might apply the same name to the Northern territories that the east and west coast "elites" here in the US apply to the area between New York and Los Angeles. I'm sure you've heard of it.
"Flyover Country." You know, it's just to be traversed as quickly as possible and of no consequence otherwise.
Balt, how's this grab you? "Oot-kiag-vik." How'd I do?
And considering how much money governments everywhere throw away, (none of them are guiltless, by the way) the money spent to restore that rail line should be just a paltry drop in the bucket.
Firelock76Balt, how's this grab you? "Oot-kiag-vik." How'd I do?
I have no idea - Barrow was much easier.
charlie hebdo The Churchill post wasn't the only one censored. My response that factually corrected a blatantly political on the Adios Coal thread was deleted, but not the original post. So not all the censorship is of right wing posts, as some would contend.
Wow, this thread is interesting, so much better than what "might have happened in Doon, IA"
mike endmrw0706182110
BaltACD You could say the US allowed something similar to happen when Barrow changed its name to its traditional Iñupiaq name, Utqiaġvik - a name that those in the other 49 state can't even begin to pronounce, let alone spell. I don't know how the Northernmost city in the USA can be considered cost effective.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Thanks Cotton Belt, makes me glad I started it. That's very gratifying.
I haven't even looked at the Doon derailment thread, I didn't notice it until it was well along and too late to jump in, but 267 posts on a derailment?
No disrespect to anyone, by any means, but how much is there to be said about a derailment?
Firelock76 I haven't even looked at the Doon derailment thread.
I haven't even looked at the Doon derailment thread.
Don't. It's been chasing its own tail for at least 3 days, with no end in sight.
There was another washout yesterday morning between The Pas, MB and Hudson Bay, SK, on the CN portion of the line. VIA found the problem:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/train-derailment-the-pas-hudson-bay-1.4734600
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/tsb-releases-image-of-via-rail-derailment-that-injured-2-1.4737680
Firelock76 No disrespect to anyone, by any means, but how much is there to be said about a derailment?
Yes, but...
The range of emotion in Churchill goes from shock that a purchase deal for the rail line to the northern Manitoba community appears to be in jeopardy to frustration at being unable to do anything about it.
On Tuesday, a spokesperson for Omnitrax Rail — which owns the rail line to Churchill, washed out by flooding in May 2017 — released a statement casting serious doubts on efforts by a group made up of Manitoba communities and a Toronto financial firm to buy the rail line and port in the town, 1,000 kilometres north of Winnipeg.
"Despite our best efforts to find common ground on certain key issues, it now appears that this transaction has fallen apart and that a sale of the [Hudson Bay Railway line] to this group may not be possible," said a news release from Omnitrax, which currently owns the rail and port.
Rhoda de Meulles, who owns and operates the Home Hardware store in the Hudson Bay town, says the news dashed hopes and is making her feel cornered.
"When I heard what happened I got very angry. I felt like I was in a cage [and] I couldn't get out of the cage," she said.
"I was very scared, very upset, because we really thought everything was going to work out and everything just fell backwards, and it hurt so bad."
A tentative deal, announced in late May, was in the works with a consortium that includes two groups representing northern communities and First Nations — One North and Missinippi Rail LP, operating together as Missinippi Rail Partners — along with Fairfax Financial Holdings and AGT Food and Ingredients.
De Meulles was counting on the rail line getting repaired this summer. Now she must decide in the next 10 days whether to order new stock by sea delivery, or risk holding off and hope a deal is made to get repair crews on the rail line soon.
The cost of everything, from food to fuel, has risen dramatically over the last year in Churchill.
If the rail line isn't repaired, the cost for a sheet of plywood de Meulles sells in her store will go up 60 cents a pound to have it delivered by ship.
That means the price for a sheet will rise from $29.69 to $78.00.
The store owner has lived in Churchill for 38 years and her husband was born and raised in the town. She says the community is reaching a breaking point.
"Everybody is angry. They don't know what to do. Everybody is at wit's end. Everybody is just sad right now."
Churchill Chamber of Commerce president Dave Daley echoes de Meulles's emotions and is pointing fingers.
"It's ridiculous. I don't know why we haven't expropriated this line from Omnitrax already," Daley said.
"They are not living up to their commitment to Canada and to the Manitoba people. This line is supposed to be repaired."
In June, the Canadian Transportation Agency ordered Omnitrax to begin repairs on the Hudson Bay Railway by July 3 and file monthly progress reports beginning in August until the work is complete.
The company has said it plans to appeal that order.
Niki Ashton, the MP for Churchill-Keewatinook Aski, says Ottawa hasn't done enough to conclude a deal for the sale of the port and rail line and fired a shot at Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
"Why is our prime minister spending so much time travelling the world when we here in Canada are hurting so badly, when we know the issues we are facing are of national importance — the only deep water arctic seaport shut down," Ashton said to reporters at a press conference outside Union Station in Winnipeg Wednesday.
Ashton called Omnitrax owner Pat Broe a "wannabe Donald Trump" who has shown "not just disrespect but disdain for Churchill."
The NDP MP also fired a shot at Premier Brian Pallister, saying Manitoba's Progressive Conservative government has been absent from efforts to reopen the rail line.
The Province of Manitoba says a much-need shipment of propane will arrive in Churchill in "the next couple of days."
The town issued an emergency order last week asking residents to ration the gas, based on an evaluation of fuel levels from Manitoba's Emergency Measures Organization.
If work to repair the rail line is further delayed, officials will have to begin considering another shipment of propane to last the community through the winter.
A sea delivery is exponentially more expensive than shipping the fuel by rail.
Firelock76I haven't even looked at the Doon derailment thread, I didn't notice it until it was well along and too late to jump in, but 267 posts on a derailment? No disrespect to anyone, by any means, but how much is there to be said about a derailment?
If you don't want to bother wading through it, it's the usual type of discussion:
There was a derailment.
No facts about the cause were released.
Someone speculates about what the cause may have been.
Someone disagrees.
The hindsight committees decide what shoulda or coulda been done.
Someone starts quoting and interpreting rules.
Someone questions somebody's credentials.
Repeat the above, getting hotter and hotter.
It's the usual speculation and conjecture based on rumor and hearsay.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Miningman 'Everybody is just sad right now': Morale in Churchill sinks as deal to buy rail line appears to flounder 'We really thought everything was going to work out and everything just fell backwards, and it hurt so bad' Sean Kavanagh · CBC News · Posted: Jul 04, 2018 4:34 PM CT | Last Updated: July 4 Rhoda de Meulles, centre, owns and operates the Home Hardware store in Churchill with her husband, Dale, right. She says the news that a deal to purchase the rail line to the northern Manitoba town is in jeopardy has her feeling angry and upset. (Warren Kay/CBC) The range of emotion in Churchill goes from shock that a purchase deal for the rail line to the northern Manitoba community appears to be in jeopardy to frustration at being unable to do anything about it. On Tuesday, a spokesperson for Omnitrax Rail — which owns the rail line to Churchill, washed out by flooding in May 2017 — released a statement casting serious doubts on efforts by a group made up of Manitoba communities and a Toronto financial firm to buy the rail line and port in the town, 1,000 kilometres north of Winnipeg. Purchase deal for Churchill rail line has 'fallen apart': Omnitrax "Despite our best efforts to find common ground on certain key issues, it now appears that this transaction has fallen apart and that a sale of the [Hudson Bay Railway line] to this group may not be possible," said a news release from Omnitrax, which currently owns the rail and port. CBC News Manitoba Morale in Churchill sinks as deal to buy rail line appears to flounder WATCH 00:00 02:06 The range of emotion in Churchill goes from shock that a purchase deal for the rail line to the northern Manitoba community appears to be in jeopardy to frustration at being unable to do anything about it. 2:06 Rhoda de Meulles, who owns and operates the Home Hardware store in the Hudson Bay town, says the news dashed hopes and is making her feel cornered. "When I heard what happened I got very angry. I felt like I was in a cage [and] I couldn't get out of the cage," she said. "I was very scared, very upset, because we really thought everything was going to work out and everything just fell backwards, and it hurt so bad." A tentative deal, announced in late May, was in the works with a consortium that includes two groups representing northern communities and First Nations — One North and Missinippi Rail LP, operating together as Missinippi Rail Partners — along with Fairfax Financial Holdings and AGT Food and Ingredients. Deal reached between Manitoba groups, Omnitrax for ownership of Churchill rail line De Meulles was counting on the rail line getting repaired this summer. Now she must decide in the next 10 days whether to order new stock by sea delivery, or risk holding off and hope a deal is made to get repair crews on the rail line soon. The cost of everything, from food to fuel, has risen dramatically over the last year in Churchill. If the rail line isn't repaired, the cost for a sheet of plywood de Meulles sells in her store will go up 60 cents a pound to have it delivered by ship. That means the price for a sheet will rise from $29.69 to $78.00. Feds put up $132K to bring steep gas prices down in Churchill Churchill residents face rising cost of food after rail line suspended The store owner has lived in Churchill for 38 years and her husband was born and raised in the town. She says the community is reaching a breaking point. "Everybody is angry. They don't know what to do. Everybody is at wit's end. Everybody is just sad right now." A proposed deal for the sale of the Port of Churchill and rail line to the northern Manitoba town appears to be in jeopardy. (Lyzaville Sale/CBC News) Churchill Chamber of Commerce president Dave Daley echoes de Meulles's emotions and is pointing fingers. "It's ridiculous. I don't know why we haven't expropriated this line from Omnitrax already," Daley said. "They are not living up to their commitment to Canada and to the Manitoba people. This line is supposed to be repaired." Omnitrax ordered to repair Churchill's damaged railway line Omnitrax appealing federal order to repair Churchill's severed railway In June, the Canadian Transportation Agency ordered Omnitrax to begin repairs on the Hudson Bay Railway by July 3 and file monthly progress reports beginning in August until the work is complete. The company has said it plans to appeal that order. MP calls out province, feds, Omnitrax owner Niki Ashton, the MP for Churchill-Keewatinook Aski, says Ottawa hasn't done enough to conclude a deal for the sale of the port and rail line and fired a shot at Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. "Why is our prime minister spending so much time travelling the world when we here in Canada are hurting so badly, when we know the issues we are facing are of national importance — the only deep water arctic seaport shut down," Ashton said to reporters at a press conference outside Union Station in Winnipeg Wednesday. The closed Via Rail station in Churchill along with the closed Port of Churchill in the background. (John Woods/The Canadian Press) Ashton called Omnitrax owner Pat Broe a "wannabe Donald Trump" who has shown "not just disrespect but disdain for Churchill." The NDP MP also fired a shot at Premier Brian Pallister, saying Manitoba's Progressive Conservative government has been absent from efforts to reopen the rail line. Propane shipment due shortly The Province of Manitoba says a much-need shipment of propane will arrive in Churchill in "the next couple of days." The town issued an emergency order last week asking residents to ration the gas, based on an evaluation of fuel levels from Manitoba's Emergency Measures Organization. Churchill residents ordered to conserve propane as tanks begin to run dry If work to repair the rail line is further delayed, officials will have to begin considering another shipment of propane to last the community through the winter. A sea delivery is exponentially more expensive than shipping the fuel by rail. CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices Report Typo or Error|Send Feedback ....well that sorta worked ...here is the link https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/churchill-rail-line-omnitrax-deal-reaction-1.4733694
CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices
Thanks for that post Miningman, a great reminder to all that as I said, there's people at the end of that rail line, not abstract numbers.
And dittos to what Sam said. It's ironic that here in the US we have a massive neighbor to the north, with whom we share a common language and, to a point, a common heritage, and the American media almost never reports on what goes on up there.
I forget just what the asking price for the line is. In the 20 to 40 million range? That seems like an absolute bargain compared to the projected rail transit line proposed (and proposed, and proposed, and proposed...) for northern New Jersey. It's to run from Hoboken to Englewood, a distance of ten, maybe 15 miles tops, at a proposed cost of nearly one billion dollars, including track rehab and rolling stock.
It would seem that the Canadian government is adopting an American response to problems 'thoughts and prayers'.
Dup.
Latest news today:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/omnitrax-court-churchill-rail-hbr-canadian-transportation-agency-1.4737640
No action, just words. No leadership. Everyone pointing fingers at everyone else, more court, more appeals.
Firelock is totally correct. It is the same as when they closed down all the centuries old fishing villages long the Newfoundland coast, by cutting them off of everything. Mass resetlement.
It is an early foretaste of a bitter chalice that our democratic authorities and their anonymous, officious underlings cannot resist forcing upon those they govern, unaccustomed and reluctant as we are to resist.
The only play the government has to get re-elected is to play the Anti-American card , riding the current media wave of hysteria.
Too bad we no longer have Stompin Tom around. One Stompin tune could fix this pronto.
Fridays lotto jackpot was 55 million...if I win I pledge here and now I'll fix the damn thing myself and I would still have 15 million left. Thats plenty enough.
...and as a PS to above, my thanks to samfp1943 for your support, kind words and fixing my post.
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