NOTE: I SEARCHED FOR A TRAINS FORUM ABOUT FOREIGN (INTERNATIONAL) RAILROADING, BUT DIDNT SEE IT
"THE SCIENCE CHANNEL" CABLE NETWORK >> SERIES: MONSTER MACHINES >> EPISODE: MONSTER TRAIN, #1, #10, (2018).
this is a very interesting episode describing the massive challenges faced by sd-70 emd locomotives pulling a train of 24 thousand tons, 1.6mi long and 240 hopper cars with iron ore... this run follows the train from montreal westward for 260mi.. in transportation, safety is always emphasized as the #1 priority for all employees, including drivers, mechanics, inspectors, supervisors, etc.. this episode is no exception, as employees each describe their role in performing their tasks relative to safety of employees, engine, rolling stock, payload and the right-of-way.. most of the time..
in one sequence, a potentially flawed section of track is reported to the roadmaster. who drives a track vehicle to the area of the flaw.. the flaw is discovered and the roadmaster describes aloud the process for determining whether the flaw should be repaired, which means halting the ore train, or to somehow deem the flawed section as "acceptable" and allowing the train to proceed over the flawed section..
the flaw is a separation between the two ends of rails that meet at a joint, where the ends are coupled together with special plates, nuts and bolts to join the plates and bind the ends together, insuring a tight fit and preventing the ends from separating and causing accidents..
this time, the roadmaster sees a missing bolt and nut laying loosely on the roadbed next to the holes where they would normally be holding together.. for reasons well beyond understanding, the roadmaster decides that the gap between the two rail ends is not serious and "deems" the gap safe to drive over.. and so we see the engines and cars rolling over the gap between the rail ends, safe and sound..
so, what is wrong with this picture? how MANY things are wrong with this picture?
>> the roadmaster sees an obvious safety hazard: nuts & bolts laying loosely, certainly out-of-place and also sees the loose-fitting plate which the nuts & bolts would ordinarily be binding together;
>> the roadmaster handles the nuts & bolts, apparently to re-assure himself that they are, in fact, what they appear to be: nuts & bolts designed to bind together the ends of rails thru plates, which he seems to conclude they are;
>> the really confounding part is, he does nothing to make repairs to re-attach the nuts & bolts to the plates against the rail ends, to perfect the safety of the soon-to-be approaching train;
>> it is possible that the roadmaster COULD NOT legally make the repairs; union rules might prevent anyone other than a union employee from taking any action that would infringe upon the union's right to require a duly-authorized union employee accompany the roadmaster to the site of the flawed track and make the repairs himself, personally, without assistance from the roadmaster, who would not be a member of the trackworkers' union.. so, what about a union trackworker riding with the roadmaster to the site of the flaw, and upon locating the flaw, repairing it? would this violate anyone's sensitivities? is the solution too simple or too complicated?
so, what is our "take-away" from this event? what is the point of preaching to the audience about rail safety if a roadmaster chooses to ignore an alarm about a flawed section of track? like, what is his mission for the railroad? to locate flaws in mainline trackage and ignore them? how does this promote the image of the railroad and its employees working to insure safety conditions for all concerned? how does the railroad rationalize an employee turning his head away from a track hazard, knowing an extra-heavy (or any) train is approaching? what other hazards do railroad employees ignore when checking for flaws in trackage, signaling eqpt., defects in rolling stock and locomotives? what are the defects that can be "let go" at the risk of life, limb, rolling stock, payload, right-of-way and engines, to say nothing about insurance carriers, stockholders, and corp. mgmt.?
i cannot believe that railroad officials, seeing such video of a mgmt.-level employee disregarding a critical safety hazard, would discount wjhat was done as a minor violation.. the program emphasizes nothing if not safety in pulling the train, gathering speed, rounding curves, slowing the train, even the "engineman" taking a 6-hour break from the controls at a rest-stop..
but, when it comes to actual alarms about track flaws, well, the roadmaster can see the problem is no real problem at all, and signals the train to continue.. I just have to ask myself, what would have happened IF the train had left the rail halfway thru the 240-car length? might we have the roadmaster's first comment after seeing it happen? OOPS! REALLY??
the disingenuousness of this roadmaster's actions, without an explanation, are so beyond reality, it takes my breath away.. how does this highly-trained railroad employee ignore a track flaw which set-off an alarm at a control center and decide it's not a danger and walk away from it? what standards is he enforcing? what is his threshold in deciding whether a track flaw is a danger or not? if he doesn't enforce the railroad's rules, whose rules is he enforcing, his or somebody else's?
i'd really like to read a reply from someone experienced in railroading who can "dumb-down" for me the rationale for this roadmaster doing what he did, rightly or wrongly.. I would not want this man, or anyone using his judgment, inspecting anything I was riding on, whether, by car, plane, train or bus..
also, I could not read the name or the emblem of railroad on the engine.. at no point did i hear the name of the railroad used in the program narrative.. the lettering looked like "DNS"(?)..YELLOW characters on an ORANGE background are not easily understood; YELLOW characters on a SILVER background are not easily understood, either.. does anyone recognize the r.r. location or payload? the r.rs. i know are CN and CP..
but, I could be wrong!
COTTON BELT RUNS A
Blue Streak
Your defect is not as serious as you think it is.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Didn't see the episode, but you should always take EVERYTHING seen on TV or movies with a healthy dose of skepticism. Unfortunately that also includes supposed documentaries. By increasing tension and excitement the general public finds any show more interesting, thus increasing popularity. Meanwhile those with greater understanding cringe and ignore the questionable plot. I am talking in general terms, not just rail themes. Consider it a "docudrama".
Other documentaries have been known to promote a producer's agenda by only mentioning one point of view, failing to even mention that there is compelling evidence that does not support it. Even history "documentaries" can often have debatable slants.
Small rail gaps will trigger the signal system, but they are safe to walk trains over at restricted speed until repairs are made. Nothing unsafe about this. It will be reported and fixed as soon as possible, but the trains can still run.
Pull-aparts are as common as can be, especially during the winter. The joint bars are usually still in place, albeit only connected on one end, and all the spikes are still in place.
While it needs to be fixed, it's safe to carefully run a train across that.
Fixing it, however, might not be as easy as just sticking the bolts back in. If the rails have contracted the holes may not line up. Oftimes the cure is to burn a kerosene soaked rope along the sides of the rail to expand it until the holes do line up.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 Pull-aparts are as common as can be, especially during the winter. The joint bars are usually still in place, albeit only connected on one end, and all the spikes are still in place. While it needs to be fixed, it's safe to carefully run a train across that. Fixing it, however, might not be as easy as just sticking the bolts back in. If the rails have contracted the holes may not line up. Oftimes the cure is to burn a kerosene soaked rope along the sides of the rail to expand it until the holes do line up.
Johnny
DeggestyI rather doubt that every roadmaster carries such a rope in his pocket--so he has to call for help.
"Harry - are you wearing cologne?"
Deggesty tree68 Pull-aparts are as common as can be, especially during the winter. The joint bars are usually still in place, albeit only connected on one end, and all the spikes are still in place. While it needs to be fixed, it's safe to carefully run a train across that. Fixing it, however, might not be as easy as just sticking the bolts back in. If the rails have contracted the holes may not line up. Oftimes the cure is to burn a kerosene soaked rope along the sides of the rail to expand it until the holes do line up. I rather doubt that every roadmaster carries such a rope in his pocket--so he has to call for help.
I rather doubt that every roadmaster carries such a rope in his pocket--so he has to call for help.
He may not carry one in his pocket, however, if his hi-rail truck doesn't have some, he has not properly stocked his hi-rail vehicle. All MofW truck should have such material on hand, especially during the Fall and early Winter when large temperature changes find all the weak rail joints.
http://www.railpictures.net/showimage.php?id=347253&key=8806109
"...it is possible that the roadmaster COULD NOT legally make the repairs; union rules might prevent anyone other than a union employee from taking any action that would infringe upon the union's right to require a duly-authorized union employee accompany the roadmaster to the site of the flawed track and make the repairs himself, personally, without assistance from the roadmaster,..."
I think you mean the collective agreement...not union rules.
selector"...it is possible that the roadmaster COULD NOT legally make the repairs; union rules might prevent anyone other than a union employee from taking any action that would infringe upon the union's right to require a duly-authorized union employee accompany the roadmaster to the site of the flawed track and make the repairs himself, personally, without assistance from the roadmaster,..." I think you mean the collective agreement...not union rules.
Repairing a pull-apart is rarely a one man job. The boss is not a one man gang. He has people that he supervises to perform the work - part of the boss's responsibility is to ensure that the job is done right, not to do the job himself.
One thing to remember about Union contracts - THEY WERE AGREED TO BY THE COMPANY. The company has the same responsibility to uphold the provisions of the contract as do the union members.
>> as for the people who are responsible for maintaining the ROW, and those who are responsible for insuring that the responsible employees are doing their jobs, DOES IT MATTER?? REALLY? >> as for how many workers it takes to do the job, etc., DOES IT MATTER? WHO CARES? >> as for whether it's "union rules" or "collective bargaining" DOES IT MATTER?
would it matter to those who lose loved ones in an accident? those who insured the payload? the board of directors and stockholders who would see their investment drop like a load of coal out of a hopper? REALLY? >> to the board of inquiry who investigates these things? to the public which reads it in the media, do you think it matters to any of them? REALLY?
i find it VERY odd that you dont mention the risk to the public for such actions, only word games like "union rules" and "collective bargaining".. REALLY!
about "spicing up" a program to stimulate interest, shouldnt the r.r. have a say in the finished material? if r.r. practices are unduly "besmirched" by this material, why would they approve it? would it impress the public to klnow this r.r. is ignoring loose rail connections? and if the broken spot is safe 99/100 times, would you risk your life on the 100th trip? im truly shocked at the complacency shown in replies to this thread? what ever happened to "PUT SAFETY FIRST, MAKE IT LAST"? and "SAFETY IS YOUR JOB"? is this a clip you would choose to promote safety practices on YOUR r.r., in a 30-second commercial? what's the new slogan for north american railroads, "IT'S PROBABLY O.K., THE TEAM WILL CHECK NEXT TIME THEY'RE OUT THIS WAY"? WOULD AN INSURANCE CO. CHARGE A HIGHER PREMIUM BASED ON THE "ALTERNATIVE PRACTICES" SHOWN?
O.M.G.!!
cabforwardabout "spicing up" a program to stimulate interest, shouldnt the r.r. have a say in the finished material? if r.r. practices are unduly "besmirched" by this material, why would they approve it? would it impress the public to klnow this r.r. is ignoring loose rail connections? and if the broken spot is safe 99/100 times, would you risk your life on the 100th trip? im truly shocked at the complacency shown in replies to this thread? what ever happened to "PUT SAFETY FIRST, MAKE IT LAST"? and "SAFETY IS YOUR JOB"? is this a clip you would choose to promote safety practices on YOUR r.r., in a 30-second commercial? what's the new slogan for north american railroads, "IT'S PROBABLY O.K., THE TEAM WILL CHECK NEXT TIME THEY'RE OUT THIS WAY"? WOULD AN INSURANCE CO. CHARGE A HIGHER PREMIUM BASED ON THE "ALTERNATIVE PRACTICES" SHOWN? O.M.G.!!
CabF - its your railroad - you find a defect - you are one man and the rest of your employees are 100 miles away - the defect requires four men to 'properly' repair, however, the defect is SAFE for a train to move at 'walking speed' (4 MPH or less).
WHAT DO YOU DO?
By the way - Capitalization, sentances and paragraphs were taught in school for a reason - to make your thoughts readable and understandable.
cabforward... the roadmaster decides that the gap between the two rail ends is not serious and "deems" the gap safe to drive over.. and so we see the engines and cars rolling over the gap between the rail ends, safe and sound..
Obviously, the roadmaster's judgement, based on his knowledge and experience, was correct.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
cabforwardwould it impress the public to klnow this r.r. is ignoring loose rail connections?
Ah, but they aren't ignoring such defects. The problem will be repaired as soon as a crew can get there to fix it, and traffic over the defect will take precautions in the meantime.
The railroad is not going to tolerate a "walking speed" slow order on a 60 MPH mainline for very long.
A simple pull-apart usually means that the bolts are out of one end of the joint bars. The rail is still held in position by the joint bars and the spikes or other securement devices.
Barring lateral forces, like a curve, the danger of a failure is minimal.
Trains are put over rail breaks and pull aparts under the instructions of a foreman on a daily basis.
Management does what management wants. They perform the work of unionised crafts all the time.
As said before, it's likely the guy couldn't fix it on his own.
The railway is likely the Quebec North Shore and Labrador.
This is yet another example of someone knowing nothing going off like they do know something.
10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ...
>> SOMEONE SAID-- maybe he couldnt fix it by himself.. WHAT I SAID EVEN BEFORE-- why didnt he take someone who could fix it to begin with? if he couldnt fix it due to union issues, bring someone along!
>> SOMEONE SAID-- (some kind of a quote not worth remembering) people run off at the mouth who dont know anything.. WHAT I SAY-- so, what are the qualifications for posting here, to begin with? if everybody knew about r.-r.-ing, why would there be a forum? whatever happened to mutual respect and "live-and-let-live"? maybe you would require only actual r.r. workers with a union card to post, and they could logon with their union id#?
yes, it is the QNS r.r. and im glad im too far away to ride it..
cabforward>> SOMEONE SAID-- maybe he couldnt fix it by himself.. WHAT I SAID EVEN BEFORE-- why didnt he take someone who could fix it to begin with? if he couldnt fix it due to union issues, bring someone along! >> SOMEONE SAID-- (some kind of a quote not worth remembering) people run off at the mouth who dont know anything.. WHAT I SAY-- so, what are the qualifications for posting here, to begin with? if everybody knew about r.-r.-ing, why would there be a forum? whatever happened to mutual respect and "live-and-let-live"? maybe you would require only actual r.r. workers with a union card to post, and they could logon with their union id#? yes, it is the QNS r.r. and im glad im too far away to ride it..
I suspect the QNSL is glad that you are not on their property either.
cabforwardWHAT I SAID EVEN BEFORE-- why didnt he take someone who could fix it to begin with? if he couldnt fix it due to union issues, bring someone along!
I rarely see a track inspector who isn't alone. It's not a union issue. That's how they operate. The vast majority of the time there is nothing to be done but roll down the railroad looking for problems. Using two people to do so is a waste of money.
On the outside chance the inspector does find something, he calls in a crew to deal with it, and a MOW foreman handles the crew and the access to the track.
cabforwardmaybe you would require only actual r.r. workers with a union card to post
Just a hunch on my part - but it sounds to me like you have an issue with unions.
As for your "zhomygosh, how can that be?" state of mind - well, the folks who do know explained it. That's what's great about this forum - there are people who know the answers and/or where to find them.
The problems seem to come in when the forum encounters someone who doesn't know, but can't believe what they're reading because it doesn't square with their picture of how things should be. Hillarity generally ensues.
tree68 cabforward WHAT I SAID EVEN BEFORE-- why didnt he take someone who could fix it to begin with? if he couldnt fix it due to union issues, bring someone along! I rarely see a track inspector who isn't alone. It's not a union issue. That's how they operate. The vast majority of the time there is nothing to be done but roll down the railroad looking for problems. Using two people to do so is a waste of money. On the outside chance the inspector does find something, he calls in a crew to deal with it, and a MOW foreman handles the crew and the access to the track. cabforward maybe you would require only actual r.r. workers with a union card to post Just a hunch on my part - but it sounds to me like you have an issue with unions. As for your "zhomygosh, how can that be?" state of mind - well, the folks who do know explained it. That's what's great about this forum - there are people who know the answers and/or where to find them. The problems seem to come in when the forum encounters someone who doesn't know, but can't believe what they're reading because it doesn't square with their picture of how things should be. Hillarity generally ensues.
cabforward WHAT I SAID EVEN BEFORE-- why didnt he take someone who could fix it to begin with? if he couldnt fix it due to union issues, bring someone along!
cabforward maybe you would require only actual r.r. workers with a union card to post
Now, as for me, I have been learning about railroading for the past sixty-seven and more years--and I know that I have barely touched the surface on some matters. I am glad to hear from those who know more than I do on this matter or that matter--whether it is someone whose life work is or has been railroading or someone who does not work for a railroad, yet has learned more on the topic than I have.
I appreciate the way many of you have put up with me over the years that I have been participating in these forums.
cabforward >> SOMEONE SAID-- maybe he couldnt fix it by himself.. WHAT I SAID EVEN BEFORE-- why didnt he take someone who could fix it to begin with? if he couldnt fix it due to union issues, bring someone along! >> SOMEONE SAID-- (some kind of a quote not worth remembering) people run off at the mouth who dont know anything.. WHAT I SAY-- so, what are the qualifications for posting here, to begin with? if everybody knew about r.-r.-ing, why would there be a forum? whatever happened to mutual respect and "live-and-let-live"? maybe you would require only actual r.r. workers with a union card to post, and they could logon with their union id#? yes, it is the QNS r.r. and im glad im too far away to ride it..
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
tree68 Hillarity generally ensues.
Hillarity generally ensues.
Indeed, between the Amtrak stuff, Bucky-bashing and now this I am getting quite the popcorn gut.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
BaltACD cabforward yes, it is the QNS r.r. and im glad im too far away to ride it..
cabforward yes, it is the QNS r.r. and im glad im too far away to ride it..
Murphy Siding wrote the following post one month ago:
Maybe you could just live-and-let-live.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
thanks, murph.. isnt that people said about the titanic and a thousand other preventable disasters??
but, i could be wrong!
OKAY, BALT, I am a reformed "non-capitalizer".. satisfied?? so, if i write in ALL-CAPS, people say, no, it looks like you're angry.. if i write in all "little letters" you "get on me" because you dont like THAT.. so, i would say to you what "murph" said to me in another post in this thread: "MAYBE YOU COULD LEAVE WELL-ENOUGH ALONE".. so, if the advice is passed to me, could i pass it to you? do you guys accept advice as well as take it? how does it work for you?
BaltACD wrote the following post one month ago:
Really, guys, we're going to start arguing about capitalization and sentence structure? I'm sure there are some fine spelling and grammar sites you can visit to fight about that stuff. (And there is almost no one here who is flawless enough in this regard to call anyone else out.)
David Lassen Really, guys, we're going to start arguing about capitalization and sentence structure? I'm sure there are some fine spelling and grammar sites you can visit to fight about that stuff. (And there is almost no one here who is flawless enough in this regard to call anyone else out.)
David LassenReally, guys, we're going to start arguing about capitalization and sentence structure? I'm sure there are some fine spelling and grammar sites you can visit to fight about that stuff. (And there is almost no one here who is flawless enough in this regard to call anyone else out.)
notarguingcapitalizationandsentancestructure.
Arguing readability! I want to be able to read and understand the thoughts a poster is making.
So, did they ever get those track bolts back in?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
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