When you job and your hobby interests collide- A major vendor of ours gave us a presentation about lumber supplies. Unfortunately, their presentation turned into layers of cow manure on train cars. I get frustrated when people make stuff up and don’t do their homework. In a nutshell they are trying to talk up the price on their wood and switch us to wood from another region. To do that, they simply pulled *facts* out of....the air.They tried to use railroads as both a scapegoat and a tool to push their agenda. Among other things, they said: *There’s a major shortage of railcars in Canada, therefore transportation costs are up.*There’s a major shortage of railcars in the US, therefore transportation costs are up.*Theirr lumber is loaded on a CN train and taken to the border where it must be parked and wait for a BNSF train, therefore transportation costs are up. *Both CN and BNSF are short of trains right now, therefore transportation costs are up. *Trains can’t haul as much in the winter, therefore transportation costs are up. *Changing to Southern Yellow Pine lumber from Texas would be an all BNSF ride, therefore it would cost less. (Disregarding the time the cars spent on a connecting short-line I suppose.) *Canadian mills have bought into Texas mills. They would now be able to *shuttle* lumber cars to us. Huh? A loaded train would leave Canada and bring us a car 1300 miles and unload. The empty car would then travel 1100 miles to Texas, get loaded and ship 1100 miles back to us. It would then travel 1300 miles back to Canada to start over. Someone in marketing thought that made sense as a sale pitch! Sometimes I get in trouble with marketing people when I question things.Any comments?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Salesman is trying to sell refrigerators to Eskimos without electricty.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Murphy Siding *Trains can’t haul as much in the winter, therefore transportation costs are up.
*Trains can’t haul as much in the winter, therefore transportation costs are up.
Is that because they have to put on snow tires?
Murphy SidingIn a nutshell they are trying to talk up the price on their wood and switch us to wood from another region.
I don't understand the connection between these two items. What does wood from another region have to do with anything?
It sounds like they are making excuses for their price being what it is. But why would a customer care about excuses? All the customer cares about is the price. If there is an alternate supplier at a lower price, excuses for the higher price won't help, and if there is not an alternate supplier, excuses for the existing price will not be necessary.
Euclid Murphy Siding In a nutshell they are trying to talk up the price on their wood and switch us to wood from another region. I don't understand the connection between these two items. What does wood from another region have to do with anything? It sounds like they are making excuses for their price being what it is. But why would a customer care about excuses? All the customer cares about is the price. If there is an alternate supplier at a lower price, excuses for the higher price won't help, and if there is not an alternate supplier, excuses for the existing price will not be necessary.
Murphy Siding In a nutshell they are trying to talk up the price on their wood and switch us to wood from another region.
Probably the best way to explain it is as some sort of offensive defense strategy. What they’re trying to convey is “Hey- you’re probably thinking that our pricing is too high. It’s not our fault! It’s because of the mean, old railroad. However, we have an option to get you lower pricing, using some made up *facts*”.
I find it ironic that the railroads are wearing both the black hat and the white hat in their scenario.
Hope he never meets BNSF's Carl Ice in a back alley in the dark.
How about manure by truck? watch this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgdEJnsdOOU
If that was a dot-to-dot puzzle, not a single one of the dots would be connected....
54light15How about manure by truck?
My drive route to the railroad takes me past a very large dairy operation. I can always count on seeing at least one manure truck - and it's in liquid form - just that much easier to spread!
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Human manure is a CSX speciality!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1989/11/21/sludge-train-oozes-backto-baltimores-chagrin/d398d49e-7072-4d93-9b81-33884a5fd2cd/?utm_term=.2576a9425448
I'm under the impression that for the major railroads, the receiving customer can log on the rail's computer system and determine the status of their shipments -- much like retail parcel customers can do with UPS or Fed-Ex. Does that system not exist, or is it not detailed enough to expose the BS?
Dakguy201 I'm under the impression that for the major railroads, the receiving customer can log on the rail's computer system and determine the status of their shipments -- much like retail parcel customers can do with UPS or Fed-Ex. Does that system not exist, or is it not detailed enough to expose the BS?
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Murphy Siding Dakguy201 I'm under the impression that for the major railroads, the receiving customer can log on the rail's computer system and determine the status of their shipments -- much like retail parcel customers can do with UPS or Fed-Ex. Does that system not exist, or is it not detailed enough to expose the BS? We have the capability to track our cars on BNSF after they've left the shipper. It allows us to pin down exactly where our cars get parked and forgotten. A couple years back we had a car come from Idaho by way of Nebraska. It forgot to take the left turn at Omaha. We were able to follow it's travels almost to Illinois. It ended up parked for a couple of days at a propane and oil siding north of Canton. But by gosh, with the technology we knew where it was.
We have the capability to track our cars on BNSF after they've left the shipper. It allows us to pin down exactly where our cars get parked and forgotten. A couple years back we had a car come from Idaho by way of Nebraska. It forgot to take the left turn at Omaha. We were able to follow it's travels almost to Illinois. It ended up parked for a couple of days at a propane and oil siding north of Canton. But by gosh, with the technology we knew where it was.
If it was on the BNSF, should've made the left at Lincoln. Besides, they were just seasoning the wood for you. I see us doing that for customers a lot. It's a free service the railroads like to provide from time to time.
Speaking of manure by rail. The soft cover book "Railroads of Omaha and Council Bluffs" has a picture of the South Omaha Terminal Ry manure cars and loading chute from 1950. The caption says the cars went to Avery, NE via UP where they were unloaded and cleaned. I seem to recall reading about manure being shipped by rail from other meat packing plants. I know guts, etc went in open gondolas. One account from a switchman handling such cars in the summertime said the smell was just offal.
Jeff
Box car loads of processed hides were rather odiferous!
jeffhergertOne account from a switchman handling such cars in the summertime said the smell was just offal.
Because there isn't a "groan" emoticon in the choices.
Quoting Jeff " One account from a switchman handling such cars in the summertime said the smell was just offal. ." Well, what else would it smell like?
Johnny
Hey Balt I almost forgot about this, I was working on the ground back then, got called about 2 AM one morning guess what my run was that day, yea you are right LOL
The B&O used to haul horse manure mixed with straw from Kentucky to underground mushroom farms northeast of Pittsburgh, Pa. It was heaped up almost twice as high as the gondola sides. One load caught fire in Glenwood yard and the firemen attacked it with high pressure hoses. That stuff was flung all over the place, including back on them.
jeffhergert Speaking of manure by rail. The soft cover book "Railroads of Omaha and Council Bluffs" has a picture of the South Omaha Terminal Ry manure cars and loading chute from 1950.
Speaking of manure by rail. The soft cover book "Railroads of Omaha and Council Bluffs" has a picture of the South Omaha Terminal Ry manure cars and loading chute from 1950.
CN and CP used to haul the stuff away from the Winnipeg Union Stockyards. Not sure how long it lasted, but suspect it ended long before the stockyards closed in the late 1980s. Many other large stockyards also likely had manure and other unniceties removed by rail.
When I first saw this thread I thought it would involve cars like this:
http://railpictures.net/photo/475801/
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
I saw a photo of an El train in Chicago running over the stockyards.Imagine the smell on a hot summer day, especially when the power went out. Here in Toronto I live not far from the former stockyards that were mainly located at St. Clair avenue and Keele street. There was a CPR locomotive shop including a roundhouse and transfer table just south of the stockyards.
I recall the stockyards when I moved to Toronto in 1995- the yards, sheds, corrals and so forth were all in place but unused. There were railroad tracks going ever which way but all connecting to the CPR nearby. A man I know lives near me at the bottom of Roncesvalles avenue and he well recalls the aroma that would waft down on the breeeze from the stockyards. I would think that the CPR would use such cars for manure of which there must have amounts I can't imagine.
Most of the former stockyard area is now big box stores and housing but there is a street with slaughterhouses and that is not a pleasant place to be in July, especially when the large, open-top bone truck comes.
The Stockyards Branch of the "L" ran as a shuttle between the Union Stock Yards and the Indiana Avenue station on what is now the Green Line. Much of the line within the Union Stock Yards did not run over streets. The line did not generate a lot of traffic but was rebuilt after the Stock Yards Fire of 1934. It was one of the last lines to operate wood body cars and was abandoned in 1957.
Back when manure was everywhere (before the auto) manure was hauled by RR in open gondolas and even occassionally on flat cars. There is one particular picture in one of my many, many RR books of a short passenger train with a manure car on the rear stopped at a rural station on a hot, sunny summer day around 1900. It might not have been too bad when the train was moving but I imagine when it stopped at the station for awhile (unloading mail & express and picking up milk) the smell must have been something.
Here is an 1895 waybill for a C&EI shipment of 30,000 lbs of Manure from Chicago to Beecher, IL.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
dehusmanHere is an 1895 waybill for a C&EI shipment of 30,000 lbs of Manure from Chicago to Beecher, IL.
BaltACD30K pounds for $8. Not exactly EHH style rates.
Running that through an inflation calculator yields a 2018 equivalent of $215.35
Using Chicago Union Station to Beecher - 41.8 miles by road, that's $5.15 a mile.
Unlimited quantity available free at CSX HQ these days!
- PDN.
Good one Paul!
Gotta hand it to Norris( Murphy Siding), there are some days when one has to wonder if he is working at the Lumber Yard, or has escaped from a Therpy Session at the local 'Home".
The one thing I am sure of, (Murphy S.) gave that'salesman' as much 'manure' back, as that 'bird seed', and lumber Salesman tried to feed to him!
Probably could get quite a deal if you threw in Washington DC with an unlimited growing mountain of the stuff that makes Ski-Bandini look miniscule.
https://youtu.be/HmRbFb5n81A?t=9 (a Johnny Carson monologue reference many times)...Once upon a time at 26th and Ayers in LA/Commerce
Paul_D_North_Jr Unlimited quantity available free at CSX HQ these days! - PDN.
If you can find a Pennsylvania railroad Publication CT 1000 (listing of facilities, including industrial spurs, at each station) for the New York Division prior to around 1940, you'll see a listing for the "N Y H M Co" at Princeton Junction; HINT: The "H" stands for "horse".
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